The Audio Preservation Thread — Page 3

I'm also interested in The Black Hold in HD!  I haven't seen it in way too long...

Hmmm... just received and captured Moonraker. Another disc mastered in 1990, another digital track with a -9dB ceiling. Why were these folks so reluctant to use the full range of the digital signal?

For now I'll resist the urge to normalise and edit it as-is - it's actually a very clear and clean track, and I guess folks' amps can fight it out with the limited volume.

Speaking of crummy-sounding Dolby Stereo mixes, a suggestion: how about a rip of the 1993 Disney LD of The Muppet Movie to sync with the new Blu-ray?

Like Superman, TMM has a rather tinny, low-dynamic-range Dolby mix (the music-and-effects track heard on the foreign dubs actually had higher fidelity!), and it makes very little use of surrounds. There was one good use of them I know of - the movie starts in standard lo-fi center-channel mono, then when the movie within a movie starts, the sound field suddenly expands to full 4.0 as the music swells, and the rainbow and title appear. (I know I said the Dolby mix sounded lo-fi, but it's still definitely a wider dynamic range than Academy mono, evident as you first hear bells in the right channel as the rainbow sweeps into frame.)

The original mix was on the original DVD in 192kHz Dolby Digital, but I think it's still worth preserving lossless.

SilverWook said:

Tack said:

guiser said:

I'm also interested in The Black Hold in HD!  I haven't seen it in way too long...

Black Hold?

I think he means Disney's The Black Hole.

Correct, sorry.

PDB said:

dark_jedi said:

So where is this The Black Hole HD file? I have been wanting to do a BD of this forever! I friggin love watching this movie and have a real nice Intrada 24 track CD I just got, could make for a nice score.

I have the 1080p/24 copy that Jonno mentioned from itunes but it sounds like zeropc has a different (hopefully less compressed) copy. The itunes one is about 3.88 GB.

Would you share what you have? there is no mention whether or not the other will be shared, so something is better then nothing.

Thanks

Jonno said:

Hmmm... just received and captured Moonraker. Another disc mastered in 1990, another digital track with a -9dB ceiling. Why were these folks so reluctant to use the full range of the digital signal?

For now I'll resist the urge to normalise and edit it as-is - it's actually a very clear and clean track, and I guess folks' amps can fight it out with the limited volume.

That's also disappointing. Although in thinking about Moonraker it would be nice to do sync for all the James Bonds. Do the blu-rays have the original mono for the older ones.

TServo2049 said:

Speaking of crummy-sounding Dolby Stereo mixes, a suggestion: how about a rip of the 1993 Disney LD of The Muppet Movie to sync with the new Blu-ray?

Like Superman, TMM has a rather tinny, low-dynamic-range Dolby mix (the music-and-effects track heard on the foreign dubs actually had higher fidelity!), and it makes very little use of surrounds. There was one good use of them I know of - the movie starts in standard lo-fi center-channel mono, then when the movie within a movie starts, the sound field suddenly expands to full 4.0 as the music swells, and the rainbow and title appear. (I know I said the Dolby mix sounded lo-fi, but it's still definitely a wider dynamic range than Academy mono, evident as you first hear bells in the right channel as the rainbow sweeps into frame.)

The original mix was on the original DVD in 192kHz Dolby Digital, but I think it's still worth preserving lossless.

I'd being willing to sync it up if someone has the LD. Although it is a weak soundtrack its always nice to have the original.

So does anyone have a link to this supposed 1080i file of The Black Hole or is this just some smoke blowing?

dark_jedi said:

So does anyone have a link to this supposed 1080i file of The Black Hole or is this just some smoke blowing?

PM

PDB said:

dark_jedi said:

So where is this The Black Hole HD file? I have been wanting to do a BD of this forever! I friggin love watching this movie and have a real nice Intrada 24 track CD I just got, could make for a nice score.

I have the 1080p/24 copy that Jonno mentioned from itunes but it sounds like zeropc has a different (hopefully less compressed) copy. The itunes one is about 3.88 GB.

there are two releases...

the hd cap i have + a vudu hdx recording, which i can get if needed. i don't know which release is the better. but having all three (hulu, hd-cap, itunes) might be good.

OK someone is trying to help me get the iTunes version and now thanks to Doombot and guiser I have the 1080i file, does anyone have links to the Vudu HDX version?

So of the 3 versions available which do you guys prefer and why quality wise? I know the iTunes version is probably the smallest in size but I read the reviews and they all are very good, I have yet to see any of them myself but will soon as I have them.

captainsolo said:

How does the MGM North by Northwest audio compare? The Criterion is seemingly print sourced and has many many source defects, I've often wondered what MGM used on theirs. Criterion credits the source as stereo soundtrack masters transferred to 24 track digital for the LD master.  The missing effects come as no surprise. The 5.1 loses a great deal of the soundfield in favor of multichannel usage and plastering the score over everything, much as the Vertigo remixes. And it harms the mix in a irreparable way. Once you hear the mono track, you can never go back to 5.1. Everything is placed perfectly in the mix, and for all those that defend the multi-channel mix as being VistaVision accurate: N by NW was mono-only.

For GBU-DEFINITELY stay with Italian mono. That has original effects as designed by Leone with the original mixing and quite excellent Italian dubbing. The MGM mix loses a great deal of Leone's careful sound design by erasing and plastering everything with horrible out of place and obvious effects. Additionally the new voice recordings are very jarring in that they weren't done very well, weren't integrated at all, and you can painfully tell the actor's age difference. I've watched the Italian version many times, and it is actually less jarring to switch to Italian w/subs for scenes than the MGM nightmare--even downmixed (like their total failure of a mono downmix for DYS)

 

I've never done a side by side with Red October, just usually pop in the awesome LD Dolby Stereo. Great news on the Temple audio. That needs to be heard...wait, experienced by everyone. Same goes for the rest of the trilogy if only for the original sound design and panning.

 

Since this has become the dedicated thread, is it possible to put up some general how-to's on capturing digital audio properly and general guidelines on re-syncing to different sources? I've dabbled in this a bit before, and now that I have a brimming LD shelf I'd like to get some equipment to work with the audio.

The Criterion's NByNW sounds very nice. Basically it sounds like a older mono soundtrack with background hiss, a little more hollow and little less dynamic. That is not a slight against the soundtrack. It is just what it sounds like; a mono soundtrack. The 5.1 has obviously been run through serious noise reduction to make it sound "modern". However the mono sounds a lot better in some places. For example when the plane and truck collide the 5.1 mutes the sound of the explosion to add in a subwoofer effect. The original mono has a louder explosion sound. The MGM sounds slightly better with a little better dynamics. That could be because it came from a better master then Criterion had or the fact they did work on it (like the stereoized credits). The MGM still sounds like a mono soundtrack. All in all both the Criterion and MGM mono sound like a mono film from the late 50s, you either like that or hate it. At least the NbyNW 5.1 doesn't seem to add any effects like the Vertigo 5.1 does. Speaking of Vertigo I captured the analog from the old LD and plan to sync it also. Does the Criterion really come from a stereo print and not a mono? If you want a copy of either captainsolo, just PM me.

I started the GBU sync by filling the missing parts in from a fold down of the English extended 5.1 but I can also do it with filling in with the Italian mono. Incidentally that Italian mono is the loudest soundtrack I have ever heard. It is at least 10db louder then either the US 5.1 or the US LD mono. I will probably slow work on this since someone might be working on a project using the LD's PCM mono.

From what I heard, October's BD 5.1 soundtrack is pretty faithful to the Dolby Stereo of the LD. There might be the near field/far field differences but there is no major changes that I could hear.

Temple is awesome, that is why I wanted it to be my first soundtrack sync. Temple does have a few changes that thegriff noticed. When Indy leaves the spike trap the chanting/music builds up; unlike the DVD/BD that has the music jump right in. Also when Willie asks what's wrong with you to Indy, she stutters on the LD soundtrack but not in the DVD/BD. I thought that was an error on my part but I went back to original copy of the widescreen LD it was there. I then went to the the pan and scan LD and it is there also. Nothing special but still interesting. Anyway I have both Raiders and Crusade captured and will sync them in good time.

 A guide is a great idea. I have to see what I can write up. Any particular LD soundtrack you looking to sync? I'd love to know what LDs you have captainsolo.

Does anyone have the LD's PCM soundtracks (synced or not synced) for Jaws and Escape from New York? They were mentioned heavily in the remix thread and I wanted to see if anyone had already worked on them. I don't have either of the laserdiscs and would love to hear them.

I have a 1080p 24fps video file of The Black Hole that was labeled as a BluRay rip even though I've found no evidence of any Blu-Ray release.  The file I have is 7.22 gb in size and the quality is really good.  I have no idea what the true source is, though.

Edit: It looks like it's from the HDTV file.  I was scanning around in the video and found one spot with a deinterlacing glitch.

I just want to thank those that contacted me by PM to get those 3 The Black Hole files, this will be my last post in this thread on it because it is about audio not this movie in particular, I will start our own thread when the time comes, but I did want to share what You_Too and I came to on the quality between the 3, I won't go into specifics but the Vudu HDX file is by far the best of the 3 hands down, but the iTunes HD file is in second, the 1080i HDTV file is by far the worst of the 3, we looked over the color of the HDX file and it is already correct, so this is a huge plus, now to go through it and check for corruption, missing frames, just anything weird lol.

Thanks again for the help obtaining these files.

PDB said:

Does anyone have the LD's PCM soundtracks (synced or not synced) for Jaws and Escape from New York? They were mentioned heavily in the remix thread and I wanted to see if anyone had already worked on them. I don't have either of the laserdiscs and would love to hear them.

Bigrob sent me his Jaws signature edition disc to work on. I've captured it but not synced it yet - happy to pass it on to someone else if they'll have the time to do it before I will. It's another rather quiet track, by the way, but very clean sounding (in dual mono).

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

PDB said:

Does anyone have the LD's PCM soundtracks (synced or not synced) for Jaws and Escape from New York? They were mentioned heavily in the remix thread and I wanted to see if anyone had already worked on them. I don't have either of the laserdiscs and would love to hear them.

I have both laserdiscs (Jaws Signature Collection box set, Escape from New York Special Edition) but still not captured them. But be sure I'll do for one of them, for one of my next projects...

That's great _,,,^..^,,,_, can't wait to hear them.

Jonno said:

PDB said:

Does anyone have the LD's PCM soundtracks (synced or not synced) for Jaws and Escape from New York? They were mentioned heavily in the remix thread and I wanted to see if anyone had already worked on them. I don't have either of the laserdiscs and would love to hear them.

Bigrob sent me his Jaws signature edition disc to work on. I've captured it but not synced it yet - happy to pass it on to someone else if they'll have the time to do it before I will. It's another rather quiet track, by the way, but very clean sounding (in dual mono).

I will work on it Jonno, if you send it my way. I'm working on The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and Raiders right now but I will add Jaws as next after that.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

PDB said:

That's great _,,,^..^,,,_, can't wait to hear them.

As Jonno have "Jaws", this means I am "forced" to do "Escape From New York"... (^^,)

What a shame :)