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The 1997 OT Special Edition Trilogy Preservation Standards Thread (* unfinished *) — Page 2

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bilditup1 said:

(I do wonder, though, how hard it would be to find the theatrical 97 SE prints)

I'm certain that there are some out there.  It wasn't that long ago.  I have some strips of the 35mm SE Jedi, about 5 frames per strip.  Here are some scans of some of the frames that might be useful to someone as a reference.  These are  using Silverfast's auto settings, I can post the full raw scans of the entire strips with no correction at all also if anybody wants to see them or thinks they may be useful as a color reference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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msycamore said:

I've since seen there has been one thread started for this purpose, and I wondered, is my work actually needed now? I can still upload it of course if there is desire for it, I just want to know if it's really worth my effort?

In my opinion, your work so far is the foundation for this whole thing. Your work has every frame of ANH and it even times frame for frame with  the 2004 DVD. Your ESB has all but one frame. You have not mentioned how ESB is timed frame for frame with the 2004 DVD (where it is the same scenes) and there is no mention of RotJ.

I do not know how you have done it and know what all the frames are. The fact that you know you have one frame missing in ESB is amazing.

Once work has been completed of each film frame for frame, that could then be the SE standard.

Other work by others to improve picture quality, upscale the video, sync the DTS, Dolby 2.0 or 5.1 following that standard would all be interchangeable.

I have no idea how any of that works but people who can do such things seem to be doing a fantastic job of working with that other standard (GOUT) so I am sure they would have no trouble with an SE standard.

Of course, we do need a catchy acronym. Following that other standard, I suggest "Georges 97 Special Edition Trilogy" or G97SET.

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss..........

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msycamore said:

I can still upload it of course if there is desire for it, I just want to know if it's really worth my effort?

do you really need to ask???

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

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Brooks said:

bilditup1 said:

(I do wonder, though, how hard it would be to find the theatrical 97 SE prints)

It wasn't that long ago.  I have some strips of the 35mm SE Jedi, about 5 frames per strip.  Here are some scans of some of the frames that might be useful to someone as a reference...

Wow dude...those look absolutely brilliant! There is hope yet, eh?

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

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Those strips show off the superiority of the 35mm and further underline how all the video versions have paled in comparison to the theatrical prints. This may be the only way to get fine detail back in the SE.

The G'kar is heavily filtered, and was going to be used as the base ROTJ for MR's superset because the TB version was very soft and noisy.

Of the LD captures, LeeThorogood's PAL version looked great in samples, but I never saw the whole thing. The superiority of PAL LD technology really helps, especially in motion, and you don't have to deal with de-interlacing. I think that this is really the best LD image that is possible.

The samples posted by DJ on his SE LD capture V2 thread were also quite good for NTSC LD footage.

Also, for ANH at least you may want to see if some copies have this phenomenon I noticed: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/97SE-Pink-Tint/topic/12667/

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

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Firstly I would add the Dolby 2.0 soundtrack to Post 1 which is part of the same source as the 5.1 track you list.

There is another possible source that could be used right away.

Given the work done by msycamore with ANH SE that is a perfect frame by frame sync to the 2004 DVD and can actually be synced to the 2004 audio, the opposite has already been done - if it is still in circulation.

When it was discovered how bad the 2004 ANH DVD was, a DVD "appeared" with the 1997 Dolby Digital 5.1 synced to the 2004 DVD. (In theory) That track could be muxed in with the msycamore ANH project file.

Does anyone out there have this release??

This DVD includes the sparkling new 16x9 picture transfer made for the 2004 DVDs. It also includes a Dolby Digital 5.1 track, but not the error filled mix found on the current DVD. Instead, this soundtrack is the 1997 remix heard theatrically in 1997 when the film was rereleased for it’s 20th anniversary. It's single layer and the sync is perfect.

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss..........

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russs15 said:

Does anyone out there have this release??

This DVD includes the sparkling new 16x9 picture transfer made for the 2004 DVDs. It also includes a Dolby Digital 5.1 track, but not the error filled mix found on the current DVD. Instead, this soundtrack is the 1997 remix heard theatrically in 1997 when the film was rereleased for it’s 20th anniversary. It's single layer and the sync is perfect.

are you asking for this release?

or just renaming the link?

why not just ask neil s for it?

he still posts here recently as of a few weeks ago.

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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I am asking if anyone has the disc or the audio from it.

I have not seen a Neil S. post in years so I thought he no longer came round here.

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss..........

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I was under the impression he'd gotten mad and left.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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captainsolo said:

Those strips show off the superiority of the 35mm and further underline how all the video versions have paled in comparison to the theatrical prints. This may be the only way to get fine detail back in the SE.

My original scans are 5K pixels wide in their original anamorphic aspect ratio and 8-10K wide when stretched back out to widescreen at 4800 optical dpi.  Here's a link to one of the frames at full size just to give you an idea of how big these scans are (to see it full size you have to click on the little magnifying glass at the top and then use the little scroll box on the bottom to zoom in).  Of course this is a highly compressed jpg.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qt3SMFLzM8SDvfxcX-Laxl-XlAtyyCbAofoY1zhr1UQ?feat=directlink

Notice the ghosting around the ships?  That's in all the frames I have, I don't know what that is.  I would love to experiment with scanning an actual film this way (frame by frame on a photoscanner) and see what the results look like.

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russs15 said:

Your ESB has all but one frame. You have not mentioned how ESB is timed frame for frame with the 2004 DVD (where it is the same scenes) and there is no mention of RotJ.

I do not know how you have done it and know what all the frames are. The fact that you know you have one frame missing in ESB is amazing.

Yeah, this is all a bit much of me saying as I'm not 100% sure, but when assembling it, like I did with ANH, and knowing about all the reel changes it appears my file is one single frame short. The NTSC 2004 DVD transfer lack 3 other frames instead. The frame missing from my file is the last frame of the asteroid hitting the Stardestroyer before we see the hologram of the officers. It's missing from both TB and GKar. Don't own ROTJ.

bilditup1 said:

msycamore said:

I can still upload it of course if there is desire for it, I just want to know if it's really worth my effort?

do you really need to ask???

Sorry, I may misunderstand your question, and your response is simply a "upload it god damn it!" but yes, I need to ask, because if it doesn't really matter if I upload my files or not, why should I keep bother. I don't ask these questions because I think it is fun.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Ok, I'll post my m2v file to spleen shortly...

Do they even accept a torrent like that? (videofile without audio)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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russs15 said:

I am asking if anyone has the disc or the audio from it.

I have not seen a Neil S. post in years so I thought he no longer came round here.

 

 


ok, maybe he doesn't post,

but this is his data:

Last Online: September 14, 2012, 2:53 AM

 

so give it a shot..

 

 

 

Molly said:

I was under the impression he'd gotten mad and left.

 

who, neil s?

Brooks said:

Those strips show off the superiority of the 35mm and further underline how all the video versions have paled in comparison to the theatrical prints. This may be the only way to get fine detail back in the SE.

My original scans are 5K pixels wide in their original anamorphic aspect ratio and 8-10K wide when stretched back out to widescreen at 4800 optical dpi.  Here's a link to one of the frames at full size just to give you an idea of how big these scans are (to see it full size you have to click on the little magnifying glass at the top and then use the little scroll box on the bottom to zoom in).  Of course this is a highly compressed jpg.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qt3SMFLzM8SDvfxcX-Laxl-XlAtyyCbAofoY1zhr1UQ?feat=directlink

Notice the ghosting around the ships?  That's in all the frames I have, I don't know what that is.  I would love to experiment with scanning an actual film this way (frame by frame on a photoscanner) and see what the results look like.

 

could you please move these or link these scans and

posts over here?

============

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Original-35mm-Theatrical-Versions-of-SE-Trilogy-and-Prequel-Trilogy-1997-2005/topic/14654/

 

for the film related threads?

 

thanks

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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russs15 said:

When it was discovered how bad the 2004 ANH DVD was, a DVD "appeared" with the 1997 Dolby Digital 5.1 synced to the 2004 DVD. (In theory) That track could be muxed in with the msycamore ANH project file.

Does anyone out there have this release??

This DVD includes the sparkling new 16x9 picture transfer made for the 2004 DVDs. It also includes a Dolby Digital 5.1 track, but not the error filled mix found on the current DVD. Instead, this soundtrack is the 1997 remix heard theatrically in 1997 when the film was rereleased for it’s 20th anniversary. It's single layer and the sync is perfect.

That is a brilliant idea, I had forgotten about that track, it must simply be the LD 5.1 synced to the DVD. I don't own it. :(

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Brooks said:

bilditup1 said:

(I do wonder, though, how hard it would be to find the theatrical 97 SE prints)

I'm certain that there are some out there.  It wasn't that long ago.  I have some strips of the 35mm SE Jedi, about 5 frames per strip.  Here are some scans of some of the frames that might be useful to someone as a reference.  These are  using Silverfast's auto settings, I can post the full raw scans of the entire strips with no correction at all also if anybody wants to see them or thinks they may be useful as a color reference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love these scans....shows some really rich colors.  How did you scan these?  I have a scanner but I don't have an adapter tray to use with it.

@msycamore....your point was well taken.  I just wanted to re-enforce the importance of ALL projects here and that this one (although the movies may not be liked by some) is just as much a part of what we know as the rest.  It's all good.  :)  :)

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Jetrell Fo said:

I love these scans....shows some really rich colors.  How did you scan these?  I have a scanner but I don't have an adapter tray to use with it.

I used an epson perfection 4490 photo scanner.  I got it super cheap on clearance so that I can scan all my personal photo negatives, it's pretty great for the price!

 

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Follow along the path myscamore's already gone thru, provided are spreadsheets which have the shot counts for some of the SWSEs.  The process starts with Lee Thorogood's.  Compared to that release are TB, Flunk.iso, G'Kar and the 2004. The public version can be edited by anyone.  Besides the opening and end credits, Lee's and the 2004 seem like a lock.  The other three have issues here and there.

SWSE-v001.1: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdDdXY1IwZ0JJcnBhbHhBd2ZRMWNmMUE#gid=4

SWSE-v001.1-public: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdFhSaGVfYVdlRlpnTHlvVk53Q3R0R1E#gid=5

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Is there any chance of de-coding the DTS Time Code (the dot/dash Morse code-like patterns next to the sound track wave forms) in the pics Brooks provided?  So one of those frames can be matched up to the DTS CD-ROM.

Mentioned in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_%28sound_system%29

Related but not an answer: datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/DDE_606_ADS7.pdf

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none said:

Is there any chance of de-coding the DTS Time Code (the dot/dash Morse code-like patterns next to the sound track wave forms) in the pics Brooks provided?  So one of those frames can be matched up to the DTS CD-ROM.

Mentioned in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_%28sound_system%29

Related but not an answer: datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/DDE_606_ADS7.pdf

I should point out that I got these strips on ebay and I don't know for certain if they're from the film itself or from a trailer.  Are all of these shots in one of the trailers?

If the dts time code in these frames is useful I could post the full five frames of each shot

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Brooks said:

none said:

Is there any chance of de-coding the DTS Time Code (the dot/dash Morse code-like patterns next to the sound track wave forms) in the pics Brooks provided?  So one of those frames can be matched up to the DTS CD-ROM.

Mentioned in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_%28sound_system%29

Related but not an answer: datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/DDE_606_ADS7.pdf

I should point out that I got these strips on ebay and I don't know for certain if they're from the film itself or from a trailer.  Are all of these shots in one of the trailers?

If the dts time code in these frames is useful I could post the full five frames of each shot

I'm just guessing but I'd say that they probably are from one of the trailers...probably cut up, like mine, to extend the profitability in place of selling a full trailer outright.  I will get my box packed up for you so I can get it sent out and maybe we can figure this out.  On a side note, I believe that the DTS soundtrack discs contain audio for the SE trailers......I could be wrong too.

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msycamore said:

Ok, I'll post my m2v file to spleen shortly...

Do they even accept a torrent like that? (videofile without audio)

Personally I think you'll be fine. There's nothing explicit in the rules against something like that. If you want you can pm a mod or something...

“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”

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Hey guys, I'm fairly new so feel free to tell me off if I rant too much or am posting in the wrong place. :)

I've just started working on an HD special edition project for my projector, in the same vein as Harmy's outstanding work with his Despecialized Editions (which provided the inspiration for a personal 1080p OUT I made for watching with my girlfriend earlier this year, so I am experienced with this sort of work).

I've also had a play with the ANH and ROTJ DTS sound tracks which I've downloaded from usenet and 5.1'd up for a test listen, and they sound great, I must say!

Are there any of the sources previously mentioned available anywhere? I've got the Reivax and Flunk-Reivax hybrid, and I own and have captured the NTSC and PAL laserdisc sets at a reasonable quality; I figure a properly IVTC'ed capture of the NTSC laserdiscs with no dropped frames is probably the best standard to use as a sync source, what do guys you think?

-CM

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CapableMetal said:

Hey guys, I'm fairly new so feel free to tell me off if I rant too much or am posting in the wrong place. :)

I've just started working on an HD special edition project for my projector, in the same vein as Harmy's outstanding work with his Despecialized Editions (which provided the inspiration for a personal 1080p OUT I made for watching with my girlfriend earlier this year, so I am experienced with this sort of work).

I've also had a play with the ANH and ROTJ DTS sound tracks which I've downloaded from usenet and 5.1'd up for a test listen, and they sound great, I must say!

Are there any of the sources previously mentioned available anywhere? I've got the Reivax and Flunk-Reivax hybrid, and I own and have captured the NTSC and PAL laserdisc sets at a reasonable quality; I figure a properly IVTC'ed capture of the NTSC laserdiscs with no dropped frames is probably the best standard to use as a sync source, what do guys you think?

-CM

Welcome to the forums Capable.  I hope you enjoy your time here.

I have a question about your 5.1'd DTS experience....how did they compare to the U.S. LD 5.1?  Did you hear any difference with DTS as the source?

Cheers

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I have a question about your 5.1'd DTS experience....how did they compare to the U.S. LD 5.1?  Did you hear any difference with DTS as the source?

Hi Jetrell,

I haven't actually heard the 5.1 AC3 from the LaserDisc set as my CLD-2950 doesn't have an AC3 circuit and the only LaserDisc preservation I could find on Usenet was the Jedi/Feta, which only had the 2.0 track I have in my own captures. I have compared the mixing from the DTS to the mixing from the Blu-Ray DTS-HD track I used to make a 'modern' 5.1 mix for the OUT a while ago, and I have to say I prefer the 97 DTS mix levels, it seems more balanced, the clarity is excellent with that nice treble that makes it sound just like you're sat in the theatre, and the LFE channel was toned down (As the DTS theatre CD's are only 5 channel, I made from doing a low-pass on the surround channels; I read online thats how they produced the LFE in theaters), although that could just be due to the levels I applied to it when I processed it from the surround channels.

Either way, it is a far better mix and not as bass-heavy as seems to be the trend with modern mixes, clarity seems similar on my THX-certified 5.1 setup and it will certainly add much to any preservations made of the Special Editions, even if we can't get a perfect HD picture just yet! I just wish I had the images for the Empire discs so I could compare them to the 5.1 LD track in Adywan's Empire 97SE AVCHD edit!

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CapableMetal said:

I have a question about your 5.1'd DTS experience....how did they compare to the U.S. LD 5.1?  Did you hear any difference with DTS as the source?

Hi Jetrell,

I haven't actually heard the 5.1 AC3 from the LaserDisc set as my CLD-2950 doesn't have an AC3 circuit and the only LaserDisc preservation I could find on Usenet was the Jedi/Feta, which only had the 2.0 track I have in my own captures. I have compared the mixing from the DTS to the mixing from the Blu-Ray DTS-HD track I used to make a 'modern' 5.1 mix for the OUT a while ago, and I have to say I prefer the 97 DTS mix levels, it seems more balanced, the clarity is excellent with that nice treble that makes it sound just like you're sat in the theatre, and the LFE channel was toned down (As the DTS theatre CD's are only 5 channel, I made from doing a low-pass on the surround channels; I read online thats how they produced the LFE in theaters), although that could just be due to the levels I applied to it when I processed it from the surround channels.

Either way, it is a far better mix and not as bass-heavy as seems to be the trend with modern mixes, clarity seems similar on my THX-certified 5.1 setup and it will certainly add much to any preservations made of the Special Editions, even if we can't get a perfect HD picture just yet! I just wish I had the images for the Empire discs so I could compare them to the 5.1 LD track in Adywan's Empire 97SE AVCHD edit!

I have the ESB discs but my internet connection isn't solid at this point so uploading them would be hit and miss.  I am working on a solution so that it can be.  Would you share your 5.1 conversions of ANH & ROTJ with us?  I'm sure some folks here would love to have at least those to start with until borisanddoris and Eldonante are able to complete their processing of the audio for DTS-MA.

As for the channel mixing...there is a DTS whitepaper on the matter which could help you sort out things a bit if you feel your mix is missing a bit.