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EU books: Thats it..

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Spoilers below for EU books

TROY DENNING SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO WRITE ANOTHER STARWARS BOOK.

lets take a look at this guys hit list

anakin solo
jacen solo
zekk
isolder(leia’s would be hapan husband)
lon shevo( bens best friend)
raynar thul
and many more…

I particularily dislike him for killing anakin
and jacen could have been saved for christs sake. he didnt want to fight jania he wanted to save allana.

DAMN HIM FOR BEING SUCH A GOOD WRITER

nice guys finish last
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Why are you even reading that shit?

I was into the EU for a while and got the hell out. Total waste of time and only designed to separate you from your money....go read a real saga...like Narnia or Tolkien.

Books, comic books, etc based on movies and TV shows are usually hit or miss anyway.
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IMHO, the only really decent EU books are Zahn's, even though I think he may have gone to the Thrawn well one too many times. :-) Oh, and that three-book series that attempted to flesh out a backstory for Han Solo; those were a fun read. Those are the only ones I've bothered to keep; the other EU books I've gotten over the years (not many of them) ended up in a "stuff I don't need any more and can get rid of" box.
There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary, and those who do not.
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It's all in an effort to keep Star Wars feeling "real" and not making it escapism. Every single one of those deaths (well, actually, the more recent ones starting in Vector Prime) was a way to take the "These characters are safe" aspect away. It is one of the only reasons why I set the EU as an extremely low priority on my reading list. If I want realism, I'll watch the evening news. When I read Star Wars (or any other Sci-Fi for that matter) I want to escape. I want to go to a fantastical world where the characters I love win in the end and survive. I don't want to worry whether or not a character I've loved for years is going to suddenly bite it when I turn the page.

"Who's going to die next?" is what the EU has become. For that, I shun it.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Cable-X1 said:

Why are you even reading that shit?


Maybe because he enjoys it? You're not the supreme designator of a work's quality, you know. Some people feel as much connection to EU characters as they do to movie characters. And as awesome as Tolkien was, you don't think money was at the top of his priority list when he submitted his work to be published?
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I firmly believe that, after trying to look up some basic Star Wars stuff on wookieepedia, these books have lent far more utter garbage to the Star Wars universe beyond the original three films than the prequels. I can't even read the Zahn books, even though I liked them when I was younger. I mean, the first one starts out with Luke Skywalker drinking hot chocolate for crying out loud!
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I happen to like Truce at Bakura and Splinter of the Mind's Eye. The two I've read so far aren't so bad... I was looking into the Thrawn trilogy. Guess I'll stay away from the rest.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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bkev said:

I happen to like Truce at Bakura and Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

Those are the only 2 "EU" books I've read. I liked SOTME better than TAB.

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Cable-X1 said:

Why are you even reading that shit?

I was into the EU for a while and got the hell out. Total waste of time and only designed to separate you from your money....go read a real saga...like Narnia or Tolkien.

Books, comic books, etc based on movies and TV shows are usually hit or miss anyway.


done them both many times
nice guys finish last
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lordjedi said:

It's all in an effort to keep Star Wars feeling "real" and not making it escapism. Every single one of those deaths (well, actually, the more recent ones starting in Vector Prime) was a way to take the "These characters are safe" aspect away. It is one of the only reasons why I set the EU as an extremely low priority on my reading list. If I want realism, I'll watch the evening news. When I read Star Wars (or any other Sci-Fi for that matter) I want to escape. I want to go to a fantastical world where the characters I love win in the end and survive. I don't want to worry whether or not a character I've loved for years is going to suddenly bite it when I turn the page.

"Who's going to die next?" is what the EU has become. For that, I shun it.


see thats something that bothers me, if you were going for realism then some of the older characters would go. so far the big three haven't even been touched, instead they develop characters in the books then kill them off like 5 books later.

I donno if ill ever forgive denning for killing anakin in star by star, when the previous 5 books had highlight him as the major character of the series. FFS the 2 books before that had 3 characters anakin tahari, and vong. they fleshed out this huge story about him and tahari then boom.

the only major movie character to be killed so far is chewie.
nice guys finish last
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bkev said:

I happen to like Truce at Bakura and Splinter of the Mind's Eye. The two I've read so far aren't so bad... I was looking into the Thrawn trilogy. Guess I'll stay away from the rest.


Don't listen to them. Read the books and make your own judgment. If you're worried about wasting money, look up a torrent. That's how I'm doing it.
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i officially boycotted the EU novels as soon as they killed off Mara Jade, being a fan of the Zahn trilogy that enraged me to no end.

The one non Lucas created character i really loved.

It seems to me Lucas was probably Jealous that Zahn created a character just as good as the originals, as well as recued the franchise so he had her killed off.

The same way he had anakin solo killed because he thought having 2 anakin's in star wars was confusing.

Lucas could never admit that Zahn is a better writer than him, just like he cannot admit Empire director kershner made a better star wars movie than him.

Killing off Anakin Solo made zero sense since it made chewies sacrifice in saving him in vain.

The same way ruining the creation of the characterizations of Tenel KA and Jacen from the young jedi knights series by Kevin J. Anderson and his wife Rebecca Moesta, ill never ever forgive them for that.

The Legacy series turned out as a nothing but a retread of the very bad prequels we did not need to read or see twice. Whiny Anakin Turns to the darkside, whiny Jacen Solo turns to the darkside. LOL not a co-incidance people.

Any Eu material inspired by the prequels i hold as suspect and will veto from my collective memory as well as not be in my bookshelf.

Am i the only one who looks back at the Old Judy Lynn Del Rey Star Wars era, and the bantam era as the golden age of the expanded universe fiction?

The Era all the way up to 1996 shadows of the empire novelization, fast forward to 1999 and the year of the prequel phantom menace and njo start in vector prime a year like 1997 which will live in infamy.

And to all those Kevin Anderson haters lucas stole all his ideas from his Knights of the Old republic and sith war comics. namely darth mauls double bladed lightstsaber and the sith backstory.

Lucas also stole Coruscant from Zahn, funny since lucas says the Eu tales are fan fiction and his are the real deal.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Johnboy3434 said:



You're not the supreme designator of a work's quality, you know.


And you are??? You defend the PT and you claim to know quality?!?!?!?

Some people feel as much connection to EU characters as they do to movie characters.


While making George rich...and frustrating themselves. Whatever.

And as awesome as Tolkien was, you don't think money was at the top of his priority list when he submitted his work to be published?


Tolkien was a professor (at Oxford, I think). Professors in those days didn't live like paupers. I highly doubt that money was his sole motivation. He had a story to tell and he told it.

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Johnboy3434 said:

bkev said:

I happen to like Truce at Bakura and Splinter of the Mind's Eye. The two I've read so far aren't so bad... I was looking into the Thrawn trilogy. Guess I'll stay away from the rest.


Don't listen to them. Read the books and make your own judgment. If you're worried about wasting money, look up a torrent. That's how I'm doing it.


Don't listen to this guy...trust us...these books are hit or miss. Most of them suck ass so bad, you'll spend the rest of your life wanting the time you wasted on them back. Read the Thrawn trilogy...that's what I read and it was worth it. I read some others and they were total shit. And I mean they were SHIT...like the kind of shit you would have after eating a whole pizza and drinking a gallon of milk kind of shit!!! Don't bother. Save your money....and go buy something else that you'll enjoy....like Firefly or something.
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SkyJedi, Coruscant came from early ROTJ drafts. I think the imperial capital was given by that name. As for some EU PT-based? The for-kids series Jedi Apprentice featuring Obi-Wan was amazing; I still re-read them today, even though I know the target audience is close to seven. There's adult-oriented plots in there, like assasination and betrayal.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I donno if ill ever forgive denning for killing anakin in star by star, when the previous 5 books had highlight him as the major character of the series

I was under the impression that Denning killed Anakin Solo because he was instructed to.

I haven't read too much EU since the NJO storyline wrapped. Too boring.
My preference is simple. I want remastered versions of precisely what we saw and heard for each Star Wars film on opening day.
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shimy said:

lordjedi said:

It's all in an effort to keep Star Wars feeling "real" and not making it escapism. Every single one of those deaths (well, actually, the more recent ones starting in Vector Prime) was a way to take the "These characters are safe" aspect away. It is one of the only reasons why I set the EU as an extremely low priority on my reading list. If I want realism, I'll watch the evening news. When I read Star Wars (or any other Sci-Fi for that matter) I want to escape. I want to go to a fantastical world where the characters I love win in the end and survive. I don't want to worry whether or not a character I've loved for years is going to suddenly bite it when I turn the page.

"Who's going to die next?" is what the EU has become. For that, I shun it.


see thats something that bothers me, if you were going for realism then some of the older characters would go. so far the big three haven't even been touched, instead they develop characters in the books then kill them off like 5 books later.

I donno if ill ever forgive denning for killing anakin in star by star, when the previous 5 books had highlight him as the major character of the series. FFS the 2 books before that had 3 characters anakin tahari, and vong. they fleshed out this huge story about him and tahari then boom.

the only major movie character to be killed so far is chewie.


They can't kill Luke (at least not directly). He can die of old age (witness Legacy), but I think that's about it. Lucas simply won't allow it. When Luke was mentioned as a possible target in Vector Prime, Lucas immediately shot it down.

Han and Leia are the next big two, but even their deaths would have an even bigger impact. Leia is pretty much a politician/diplomat even with the Jedi training. Killing her would be a huge blow to the Republic. Han's a father and courier for the Republic, but I can't remember if there was any other reasoning behind letting him live (I think they figured that since Chewie had the life debt and that he's always at Han's side, he'd never let Han be killed).

They basically picked a character that would have a big impact on the other characters, but that the galaxy could live without. The only good thing about his death is the way he died.

I get the feeling that they'll never kill Luke, Han, or Leia. They might die of natural causes/old age, but that's as far as it'll go. Either way, yeah, it's pretty lame that they build up a character and then kill them off in order to "keep things real and dramatic". Funny how Zahn never had to do that to write good stories. He's still hailed as the king of Star Wars EU.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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skyjedi2005 said:

It seems to me Lucas was probably Jealous that Zahn created a character just as good as the originals, as well as recued the franchise so he had her killed off.

The same way he had anakin solo killed because he thought having 2 anakin's in star wars was confusing.

Lucas could never admit that Zahn is a better writer than him, just like he cannot admit Empire director kershner made a better star wars movie than him.


Lucas doesn't make nearly the amount of decisions about EU that you're giving him credit for. Chewie was an exception because he was one of the main characters from the movie. Delving into Yoda's backstory has also generally been off limits or at least it was before the PT came out. All the authors seem to be focused on post NJO stories now though.

And why does everything with you have to revolve around Lucas being this great hater of people that might be better than him? Do you really think Lucas cares if Zahn is the better writer? Lucas knows he can't write that well and he hates writing (he practically says it himself in many behind the scenes documentaries for TPM).

skyjedi2005 said:

Killing off Anakin Solo made zero sense since it made chewies sacrifice in saving him in vain.


Blame the EU authors then, not Lucas.

skyjedi2005 said:

The same way ruining the creation of the characterizations of Tenel KA and Jacen from the young jedi knights series by Kevin J. Anderson and his wife Rebecca Moesta, ill never ever forgive them for that.


Ah yes, the oh so wonderful Jedi Academy series that sucked ass. I put one of those down when one of the teachers in the book told the students to practice lifting leaves with the Force instead of rocks. When a student questioned that, the teacher said "You have to start small". Excuse me? "Size matters not!" Just throw everything Yoda said out the window. Boulder or leaf, it can be lifted no matter how big it is.

skyjedi2005 said:

And to all those Kevin Anderson haters lucas stole all his ideas from his Knights of the Old republic and sith war comics. namely darth mauls double bladed lightstsaber and the sith backstory.


And that's pretty much the extent of what Lucas took from those stories. You say stole as if Kevin Anderson owns the property. Ask any of the EU authors. They write the stories, but Lucas owns all of it in the end. If he likes something, it's not steeling for him to use it since it's already his property. "Star Wars is Lucas' playground, we're just playing in it."
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Cable-X1 said:

Don't listen to this guy...trust us...these books are hit or miss. Most of them suck ass so bad, you'll spend the rest of your life wanting the time you wasted on them back. Read the Thrawn trilogy...that's what I read and it was worth it. I read some others and they were total shit. And I mean they were SHIT...like the kind of shit you would have after eating a whole pizza and drinking a gallon of milk kind of shit!!! Don't bother. Save your money....and go buy something else that you'll enjoy....like Firefly or something.


Now you're just sounding like a child. What kind of person simply goes by the word of mouth and never keeps an open mind? A brainless sheep, that's who. If you think there's no way he could possibly enjoy something that you can't, then all that shows is your ignorance.
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Johnboy3434 said:

What kind of person simply goes by the word of mouth and never keeps an open mind? A brainless sheep, that's who.


Um, no. Someone who listens to others with common interests, that's who. Hence why product reviews by customers (in this case book reviews by readers) are such a powerful tool. If a product is bad, enough people bitch which causes others to not buy it because it's bad and then it fails in the market.

Interesting how sales of Star Wars EU weren't doing to well until they started threatening characters lives (NJO). Once it becamse "Who's going to die next?" sales skyrocketed. I doubt those numbers are holding up anymore though considering that the PT is finished and the only thing new on the horizon is the Clone Wars movie and the live action series.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Cable-X1 said:

And you are??? You defend the PT and you claim to know quality?!?!?!?


I never claimed to be anything, and I didn't pronounce any sweeping judgments on a vast body of work, either. Again, you say this like quality is an absolute that can be measured. You're being a closed-minded, self-centered fool and you don't even realize it. People have different opinions about art. That's one of its defining traits.

Just because you think something is crap does not make it so. I think Ernest Hemingway was a sexist idiot who couldn't form a decent sentence and should have been shunned by anyone with a functioning sense of decency and taste... but I can tolerate those who swear by him because that's how art works. They see something I don't, and it brings them aesthetic pleasure. The same goes for you and people who like the PT and the EU, only your attitude seems to be "if I can't see it, it doesn't exist" and you talk down to those who can see it. Hate it all you want, just don't state your opinions as facts and then act scandalized when someone calls you on it.
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lordjedi said:

Um, no. Someone who listens to others with common interests, that's who. Hence why product reviews by customers (in this case book reviews by readers) are such a powerful tool. If a product is bad, enough people bitch which causes others to not buy it because it's bad and then it fails in the market.


True, but very rare is the product that every single consumer dislikes. There are fans of just about everything. Someone who reads this thread could potentially find enjoyment in the EU, but if they listened to Cable, they'd never know it.
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Johnboy3434 said:

lordjedi said:

Um, no. Someone who listens to others with common interests, that's who. Hence why product reviews by customers (in this case book reviews by readers) are such a powerful tool. If a product is bad, enough people bitch which causes others to not buy it because it's bad and then it fails in the market.


True, but very rare is the product that every single consumer dislikes. There are fans of just about everything. Someone who reads this thread could potentially find enjoyment in the EU, but if they listened to Cable, they'd never know it.


Yes and there are Star Wars fans who don't care how good or bad something is, they read it/watch it/listen to it/buy it. Most of those fans will probably never find their way here though. It could be absolute dreck like most of the EU (super weapon of the week anyone?) and they simply don't care. As long as it has their favorite characters, they keep on buying the books and reading them.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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lordjedi said:

Yes and there are Star Wars fans who don't care how good or bad something is, they read it/watch it/listen to it/buy it. Most of those fans will probably never find their way here though. It could be absolute dreck like most of the EU (super weapon of the week anyone?) and they simply don't care. As long as it has their favorite characters, they keep on buying the books and reading them.


And why is that so bad? If they enjoy it, why not let them be?
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Johnboy3434 said:

Cable-X1 said:

Don't listen to this guy...trust us...these books are hit or miss. Most of them suck ass so bad, you'll spend the rest of your life wanting the time you wasted on them back. Read the Thrawn trilogy...that's what I read and it was worth it. I read some others and they were total shit. And I mean they were SHIT...like the kind of shit you would have after eating a whole pizza and drinking a gallon of milk kind of shit!!! Don't bother. Save your money....and go buy something else that you'll enjoy....like Firefly or something.


Now you're just sounding like a child. What kind of person simply goes by the word of mouth and never keeps an open mind? A brainless sheep, that's who. If you think there's no way he could possibly enjoy something that you can't, then all that shows is your ignorance.


I have read quite a few EU books and some comics...I personally, have gotten exactly nothing out of them at all. I think it's just a money making thing...they churn out a lot of these a year and most are pretty low quality IMHO.

If someone gets off on them, okay...but I think there's better things to read. But hey...if someone is interested, check out a few...but don't buy them full price and don't go into it expecting something great.

To me, SW is a cinematic experience....it doesn't translate to a book or comic book. Star Trek translates to books well, not SW.