Team Negative1 — Page 2

This terrible news! I’m just shocked!

This makes no sense. It’s not as if all this time nobody knew that the scanning of prints isn’t exactly legal. I can hardly imagine that being the single reason for them being banned suddenly.

The whole “piracy” thing sounds moot too. They’ve been pretty strict about not posting any torrent or other download links.

I think a lot of you guys are focusing on this being about 35mm prints in general, and their already released stuff, which is not a ban-able offense around here, rather than previews of something yet to come. There are ethics within the community that are in question here, rather than just the general ethics of fan preservations which, I believe, are something we know where we stand on.

Shane Rollins said:

Harmy has had permission from the studios to do this since day one.

Show your proof or stop posting. I don’t recall a single instance where Harmy even hinted at this.

Yikes. That’s sad to read. Will you be slightly more specific or do you think it’s “safer” to not to go into details about the ban?

TV’s Frink said:

Shane Rollins said:

Harmy has had permission from the studios to do this since day one.

Show your proof or stop posting. I don’t recall a single instance where Harmy even hinted at this.

What a completely baffling brand new account. I think he severely misunderstands many things.

As I suggested before, this was not about releasing 35mm preservations in general or Fox owning prints. That’s not speculation but it is not my place to go into detail. And indeed some people may not want to.

towne32 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Shane Rollins said:

Harmy has had permission from the studios to do this since day one.

Show your proof or stop posting. I don’t recall a single instance where Harmy even hinted at this.

What a completely baffling brand new account. I think he severely misunderstands many things.

You got that right.

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/909776

TV’s Frink said:

towne32 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Shane Rollins said:

Harmy has had permission from the studios to do this since day one.

Show your proof or stop posting. I don’t recall a single instance where Harmy even hinted at this.

What a completely baffling brand new account. I think he severely misunderstands many things.

You got that right.

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/909776

It’s times like this that I need to remind myself of a modified Hanlon’s razor: Never attribute to trolling that which can adequetly be explained by ignorance.

I think there is real merit in doing more reading than writing when first joining a community. The vast majority of people have so much that they can learn and relatively little that they can teach on day one.

towne32 said:

I think there is real merit in doing more reading than writing when first joining a community. The vast majority of people have so much that they can learn and relatively little that they can teach on day one.

That should be posted at the top of every forum (not just ot.com).

SilverWook said:

All this speculation is not helping.

It’s what happens when an announcement of this kind isn’t conclusively detailed. And I say this with all due respect to Jay who may be constrained or reluctant to give a conclusively detailed account. Harmy has used TN1 footage in his reconstructions, other people have used Harmy’s reconstructions as the basis of shots in their edits. Unless people know in detail what happened they will speculate if only out of anxiety over their own projects or position in the edit/preservation community.

sh*t sux yo

^ what muh hommie sez

Shane Rollins said:

If you’re right (I’m not here to start an argument) then Harmy has lied not only to me but to tens of thousands of OT fans, if not more. I have no clue why he couldn’t just do it legally, but if what you’re saying is true, then he’s just as wrong as them. I’m not as concerned for the fate of his movies, as much as I am for the fact that thousands of people have unknowingly broke the law because of this. I was planning something similar to this. I was going to try to preserve the home video releases of the OT. The first thing I was planning to do was contact Lucasfilm for permission. They would not be up for public viewing or downloading, by they could be used in some way for educational purposes.

What the hell have you been smoking?

“Even in Modesto, is there really enough pot around to make this thing happen?” --Star Wars Holiday Special Rifftrax

Molly said:

Sure. I’d buy 'em if I could - even though I have no way to play them because to date I have refused to spend a penny on BluRay anything.

There is no “I can” with these three movies, because everyone involved has spent the last 20 years trying to bury them. That’s why piracy happens. But let’s not kid ourselves - “ethical” piracy, so much as one can define such a thing, is piracy. (I’m preaching to the choir, I know.)

I can only hope that what we (I’ve been involved in this kind of matter for over a decade now myself) have been doing will result in the RIGHT thing happening, which is something similar to what we’re aiming for being released, not by fans, but by Fox and/or the Rat.

This rings oddly familiar of moral lesson stated at the end of Disney’s own “Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl”.

The only reason I paid for the Star Wars Blu-ray set was to watch Adywan’s Revenge of the Sith (I may live that long) and Harmy’s reconstructions with a slightly musky but mostly clean conscience. I doubt if I will ever watch the main features on that set. That’s why Frink happens.

Molly said:

Sure. I’d buy 'em if I could - even though I have no way to play them because to date I have refused to spend a penny on BluRay anything.

There is no “I can” with these three movies, because everyone involved has spent the last 20 years trying to bury them. That’s why piracy happens. But let’s not kid ourselves - “ethical” piracy, so much as one can define such a thing, is piracy. (I’m preaching to the choir, I know.)

I can only hope that what we (I’ve been involved in this kind of matter for over a decade now myself) have been doing will result in the RIGHT thing happening, which is something similar to what we’re aiming for being released, not by fans, but by Fox and/or the Rat.

I just read this and am still totally confused about the entire matter at hand. Molly’s post says what we all know to be true.

What has been going on here has been based on physical products that have changed in content, yet been purchased over time, and they all came with the same “piracy” warning. This community has been a HUGE supporter of wanting the ORIGINAL Trilogy release, hence the sites name, since day one. The petition alone spurred a long line of “preservations” so that us fans could have what George Lucas did not want to provide. Fan efforts have been left alone apparently due to his feelings on not wanting the “originals” to exist in the public arena.

Now that publicity is knocking on the door a little more loudly than ever before we toss some folks to the wolves and lock the door behind them? The petition begged for attention to our cause. The petition lost steam when Mr. Lucas released the Bonus DVD’s of a Laserdisc transfer of the Trilogy but work continued due to the flaws in that and the Blu-ray releases because they were considered a slap in the face to the community of fans that have championed the release of the ORIGINAL Trilogy for so long. All those people who worked on the original films (and their work) are still championed due to their groundbreaking results even though Mr. Lucas seemed intent on wiping them from the planet’s history by rewriting and reinventing his “reasons” for doing so on countless occasions across the timeline (Frink, plz don’t ask for proof because there are countless threads here with publicly quoted material from Mr. Lucas himself, too many for me to search out. Just a little humorous sarcasm, don’t sass me. LOL) but we all know the deal.

In the end, as a member here, I am not interested in arguing the moral implications of the issue. The problem I find with the dilemma, is that we as members and fans, are actually part of said dilemma because of our passion and love for what made us love the Original Star Wars Trilogy so much. Maybe, before passing judgement on TN1, we re-evaluate our own reasons for being here and our passion, and decide if we might belong in the same shoes they have been made to wear now for having the same passions.

This post is just me giving an opinion. It is not meant as an attack on anyone or as a way to justify a position on the matter. I have supported the efforts of the X-0 Project, PuggoGrande, TR-47, TN1, Harmy, TeamBlu and countless others just to name a few, and would most definitely do it again for the same reasons … for the preservation of the historical breakthroughs made by people with little money to make something the world could love and advance the envelope for future film-makers. Maybe what the site needs now is to close the door and reinvent itself so that it and us may all continue to come together in a noble cause which is greater than ourselves but stronger as a whole.

Just my two cents on the matter … even if no-one agrees or wants to hear it.

Peace and Love to ALL of you.

Thanks for listening anyways.

LexX said:

yoda-sama said:

This rings oddly familiar of moral lesson stated at the end of Disney’s own “Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl”.

“Perhaps on the rare occasion pursuing the right course demands an act of piracy, piracy itself can be the right course?”
-Disney

😛

We don’t know what the act was, so how can we know if it was the right course?

Jetrell Fo said:

Molly said:

Sure. I’d buy 'em if I could - even though I have no way to play them because to date I have refused to spend a penny on BluRay anything.

There is no “I can” with these three movies, because everyone involved has spent the last 20 years trying to bury them. That’s why piracy happens. But let’s not kid ourselves - “ethical” piracy, so much as one can define such a thing, is piracy. (I’m preaching to the choir, I know.)

I can only hope that what we (I’ve been involved in this kind of matter for over a decade now myself) have been doing will result in the RIGHT thing happening, which is something similar to what we’re aiming for being released, not by fans, but by Fox and/or the Rat.

I just read this and am still totally confused about the entire matter at hand. Molly’s post says what we all know to be true.

[snip}

None of this is what’s happening, though. This isn’t about re-thinking the morality of preservations. It’s about one specific thing that might have happened within the community.

That said, I agree with everything you’re saying and I see how the topic suggests this. I hope things are clarified in whatever delicate way they can be so that everyone doesn’t tear their hair out thinking this.

The other reason that I hope this is clarified is that, as we know, press publicity has been relatively high for us lately. I don’t think any of us want our members or the public thinking that the reason for the ban is some sort of oceans 11 film print heist rather than an internal issue between OT members.

Jetrell Fo said:

Maybe what the site needs now is to close the door and reinvent itself so that it and us may all continue to come together in a noble cause which is greater than ourselves but stronger as a whole.

Hell no. One team account does not this site make.

Bingowings said:

The only reason I paid for the Star Wars Blu-ray set was to watch Adywan’s Revenge of the Sith (I may live that long) and Harmy’s reconstructions with a slightly musky but mostly clean conscience. I doubt if I will ever watch the main features on that set. That’s why Frink happens.

If I were the kind of person to put other people’s quotes in my signature, I’d be very tempted by this one.

towne32 said:

Jetrell Fo said:

Molly said:

Sure. I’d buy 'em if I could - even though I have no way to play them because to date I have refused to spend a penny on BluRay anything.

There is no “I can” with these three movies, because everyone involved has spent the last 20 years trying to bury them. That’s why piracy happens. But let’s not kid ourselves - “ethical” piracy, so much as one can define such a thing, is piracy. (I’m preaching to the choir, I know.)

I can only hope that what we (I’ve been involved in this kind of matter for over a decade now myself) have been doing will result in the RIGHT thing happening, which is something similar to what we’re aiming for being released, not by fans, but by Fox and/or the Rat.

I just read this and am still totally confused about the entire matter at hand. Molly’s post says what we all know to be true.

[snip}

None of this is what’s happening, though. This isn’t about re-thinking the morality of preservations. It’s about one specific thing that might have happened within the community.

That said, I agree with everything you’re saying and I see how the topic suggests this. I hope things are clarified in whatever delicate way they can be so that everyone doesn’t tear their hair out thinking this.

For this “big” of an issue “I personally feel” (my own opinion) the clarification should be outright. The forum and those affected by the “issue” should be mature enough to hear and process the real nature at the heart of all this. Sugar coating something legit will not fix or ward off any possible future “issues” unless it is out in the open for all to be aware of, otherwise what we stand for and do here is useless and empty of the heart and soul with which it all was originally created.

I am going to dare to quote Frink, partially, as it kinda hits the right mark for me even though he probably did not intend for it to do so in this case … leave it to Frink to say it tho, LOL …

And I partially quote …

TV’s Frink said:

Show your proof or stop posting.

While it is not subtle, it begs the same intent with regards to this. I mean NO harm or disrespect to anyone with this, it just spoke to me.

While agreed that this is sad news, part of me is not stunned. No matter how we view it, this is piracy and for the most part it’s illegal. I praise all the hardworking TN1 and Harmy have done with their respective reconstructions but they as well as everyone, including myself, having been walking a tight rope legal wise for a few years now, all for the purpose of preserving that which is no longer available. I in no way will call Harmy or TN1 or those who have followed their works ‘thieves’ per se as long as it was all done within context. Harmy stressed that those who view the DeSpecialed Editions should already own the official BDs and so is not trying to take ownership of someone else’s property. Sure it doesn’t make what he’s done all the less illegal but I won’t call him a theif for it. People trying to claim ownership over what doesn’t belong to them I will call thieves. IMO that is not the purpose of this site or what those involved have done. That being said its a shame about TN1 since 3 years of restoring something historical has been shut down but again they like everyone else who delve in piracy were in troubled waters.

crissrudd4554 said:

While agreed that this is sad news, part of me is not stunned. No matter how we view it, this is piracy and for the most part it’s illegal. I praise all the hardworking TN1 and Harmy have done with their respective reconstructions but they as well as everyone, including myself, having been walking a tight rope legal wise for a few years now, all for the purpose of preserving that which is no longer available. I in no way will call Harmy or TN1 or those who have followed their works ‘thieves’ per se as long as it was all done within context. Harmy stressed that those who view the DeSpecialed Editions should already own the official BDs and so is not trying to take ownership of someone else’s property. Sure it doesn’t make what he’s done all the less illegal but I won’t call him a theif for it. People trying to claim ownership over what doesn’t belong to them I will call thieves. IMO that is not the purpose of this site or what those involved have done. That being said its a shame about TN1 since 3 years of restoring something historical has been shut down but again they like everyone else who delve in piracy were in troubled waters.

This (a crackdown due to legal concerns) is not what’s happening and it is an internal issue in question among preservationists. Yes, we should always keep legal issues in mind. But the sky is not falling right now.

I guess this is what I’m doing this afternoon.