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Team Negative1 - Star Wars 1977 - 35mm Eastman Vs Technicolot Theatrical Version (* unfinished project *) — Page 2

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A few more questions to satisfy my hype:

  • What is the soundtrack going to be? 35mm Stereo and mono I’d assume, but maybe the 70mm 5.1 too? Will they be directly from the reels or will it come from the '93 releases again?

  • Will this release have a message before it like the SSE did? I’m all for giving credit where it’s due so I’m just curious.

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Wow, did I get stealth moderated? A notification would be nice, if forum rules were violated – i.e. if making fun of banned users who haven’t been active on the forum for years qualifies. If FatherSkywalker and his ilk are off-limits now, it’s best to spell it out for everyone – long-gone banned users are considered fair game by many here.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Williarob said:> >

But did you spot the 26 frames I replaced using the LPP? If you look at the lightsaber duel, there are several frames that were missing from the Tech and I replaced using the LPP. At full speed it’s hard to spot unless you are looking for it, but if you slow it down, you’ll see it gets much grainier.

Initially I replaced 23 of those first 26 using the LPP, but I trimmed them from the final sample because they looked pretty rough and I didn’t want it to be judged on LPP frames…

I’m a bit confused as well… Were those 26 frames absent from both Tech and the Eastman? I assume the finished version will have no LPP frames at all, or it would be called a Tech vs Eastman vs LPP preservation?

You stated that it’s based on Eastman with Tech references, but the sample is entirely from a TECH reel, minus the missing frames?

The sample posted is indeed mind-blowing, I just feel I could still use an even more pedagogic review of the details regarding this project. You guys have my full support!

“Stargazing wizards, stare into the night,
Hurricanes and blizzards, here comes the final fight”

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Could you please post screenshots? My internet connection is far too slow to download 2GB in one sitting.

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There are a few screenshots posted on the first page.

Team Negative1

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Memorex said:

Williarob said:> >

But did you spot the 26 frames I replaced using the LPP? If you look at the lightsaber duel, there are several frames that were missing from the Tech and I replaced using the LPP. At full speed it’s hard to spot unless you are looking for it, but if you slow it down, you’ll see it gets much grainier.

Initially I replaced 23 of those first 26 using the LPP, but I trimmed them from the final sample because they looked pretty rough and I didn’t want it to be judged on LPP frames…

I’m a bit confused as well… Were those 26 frames absent from both Tech and the Eastman? I assume the finished version will have no LPP frames at all, or it would be called a Tech vs Eastman vs LPP preservation?

You stated that it’s based on Eastman with Tech references, but the sample is entirely from a TECH reel, minus the missing frames?

The sample posted is indeed mind-blowing, I just feel I could still use an even more pedagogic review of the details regarding this project. You guys have my full support!

I don’t know where the Eastman print fits into this either. But perhaps this will help: the sample clip is missing 52 frames. 26 at the start and 26 more in groups of 2, 5, 8 scattered about in the middle. The LPP is missing only 3 frames at the start of the reel. I replaced all the frames I could using the LPP, but the beginning of the sample would then have been LPP, so I removed the frames at the start.

Does that make more sense?

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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First of all, thank you so much for the incredible work in all your projects.
Internet trolls aside, I think nearly everyone here is grateful to you for releasing such an incredible material, which will be probably the definitive versions of these movies.

I have some questions for this particular project, as I’m a bit confused right now.

When this project was announced in the other thread, I thought this would be a color-corrected Eastman print, using an IB Technicolor print as a color reference, as you wouldn’t have a complete IB Tech scan.

In this thread’s announcement you quote “Various Technicolor references”, not scans or prints.

Then I read this at thestarwarstrilogy.com (The youtube “cleaning” clip uses a Technicolor print scan):

“Long story short, we ended up with more than one Technicolor print of Star Wars”

And today, I’ve read that the amazing Reel 4 preview is actual Technicolor footage, which is why it’s just perfect.

So, why is this project an “Eastman vs Technicolor”, if you have an actual Technicolor print scan?

I’m not very familiar with film stock, so, are you using the Eastman print because it has more detail than the IB Tech one, and the best combination is the image from one and the color from the other?

Or is it simply because you don’t have permission from the IB Tech owners to release it?

Or (and the last question 😃 ), is this actually called “vs” because you’re using the Eastman scan as a dirt-removal technique to be used in the IB Tech scan, just as the LPP in the “Cleaning Star Wars” sample clip?

Sorry for so many questions, and again, thank you so much for your incredible work.

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See if you can tell what other scenes are from the Eastman version.

Team Negative1

my guesses are:

artoo canyon scene

luke training with the remote on the Falcon

Nah?

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The video sample for v2.0 looks stunning! I’m very happy the color matching tool is put to good use, and is able to assist you guys in creating these wonderful preservations! Thanks again Williarob for making those great demo videos on thestarwarstrilogy.com!

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Williarob said:

This is actual Technicolor footage.

Oh, awesome. From the description, I was under the impression that it was…the other thing I said.

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Williarob said:

I don’t know where the Eastman print fits into this either. But perhaps this will help: the sample clip is missing 52 frames. 26 at the start and 26 more in groups of 2, 5, 8 scattered about in the middle. The LPP is missing only 3 frames at the start of the reel. I replaced all the frames I could using the LPP, but the beginning of the sample would then have been LPP, so I removed the frames at the start.

Does that make more sense?

Yes and no 😃 I fully understand what you did there, and I didn’t manage to spot any of the frames from the LPP. But shouldn’t those missing frames be from the Eastman print? Anyway, keep doing what you’re doing, it sure looks promising!

“Stargazing wizards, stare into the night,
Hurricanes and blizzards, here comes the final fight”

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The techs are all missing frames, and are cropped more than the other prints.
They also have more damage on them.

Therefore we will be using replacements where we can.

Team Negative1

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You mean replacing the missing frames with the other Techs or the Kodak ones?

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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team_negative1 said:

The techs are all missing frames, and are cropped more than the other prints.
They also have more damage on them.

Therefore we will be using replacements where we can.

Team Negative1

Somehow oversaw this bit of info from the LPP thread:

“The LPP is only there to fill in the dirt and replace the missing frames. This project is all about the Technicolor version of Star Wars. It’s sharper, and the colors are much nicer than the LPP, but it’s also has a lot more damage. As a bonus, using the techniques demonstrated here, we may also end up with a version of the LPP color timed to match the tech 😃”

But still, guys: What’s up with the Kodak reels? Further dirt mapping and/or frame replacements?

“Stargazing wizards, stare into the night,
Hurricanes and blizzards, here comes the final fight”

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Memorex said:

team_negative1 said:

The techs are all missing frames, and are cropped more than the other prints.
They also have more damage on them.

Therefore we will be using replacements where we can.

Team Negative1

Somehow oversaw this bit of info from the LPP thread:

“The LPP is only there to fill in the dirt and replace the missing frames. This project is all about the Technicolor version of Star Wars. It’s sharper, and the colors are much nicer than the LPP, but it’s also has a lot more damage. As a bonus, using the techniques demonstrated here, we may also end up with a version of the LPP color timed to match the tech 😃”

But still, guys: What’s up with the Kodak reels? Further dirt mapping and/or frame replacements?

Exactly. If this is a Technicolor project, with the LPP used to fill the dirt gaps, what is the Eastman/Kodak print for?

And in this topic, TN1 said that “THERE ARE SEVERAL SCENES IN THE RECENTLY RELEASED STAR WARS 35MM LPP”, which I assume are from this project, which “is all about the Technicolor version of Star Wars”, but in the Silver Screen FAQ, TN1 says that the replacement shots where from Eastman stock:

“The intro and crawl were from a faded English Eastman Kodak print. (Does not have Episode 4 in it)
The Han shoots first scene was sourced from a faded Eastman Kodak print.
There are also several replacement shots throughout the movie from faded Eastman Kodak prints.”

Guys, I really think you should explain where the different film stock (LPP, Eastman, Technicolor) is going to be used in this project 😃, because I’m really confused with this.

Thanks!!

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I think you are making this way too confusing.

  1. Base of the project is from Technicolor
  2. Missing frames and scenes will be from an Eastman Kodak print (Crawl, etc)
  3. The LPP was only used for cleanup on frames that still had damage even after the automated process, we have not decided on using it for complete replacement just yet

The project is too early in its stages, to discuss concrete details about what
exactly will be done.

The examples and previews are from tests that we have done, that are still undergoing
changes. Hence, why we are not committing to a concrete process.

This thread is a placeholder for upcoming information, and people to comment on.

The most up to date information, samples, and discussions can be found here:

http://thestarwarstrilogy.com/starwars/

We will also be updating the facebook link, and youtube channel when we can.

Team Negative1

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team_negative1 said:

I think you are making this way too confusing.

  1. Base of the project is from Technicolor
  2. Missing frames and scenes will be from an Eastman Kodak print (Crawl, etc)
  3. The LPP was only used for cleanup on frames that still had damage even after the automated process, we have not decided on using it for complete replacement just yet

The project is too early in its stages, to discuss concrete details about what
exactly will be done.

The examples and previews are from tests that we have done, that are still undergoing
changes. Hence, why we are not committing to a concrete process.

This thread is a placeholder for upcoming information, and people to comment on.

The most up to date information, samples, and discussions can be found here:

http://thestarwarstrilogy.com/starwars/

We will also be updating the facebook link, and youtube channel when we can.

Team Negative1

Thank you for the clarification. That makes a lot of sense now. 😃

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Williarob said:
We do have several prints (including this Tech) scanned in 4k, but 4k processing requires more computing power and more disk space than we have at the moment.

If there is ever a time when everyone has 4k TVs, then maybe. Hopefully we won’t need to, though. Perhaps by then Mike V’s Legacy Edition will be on sale in stores in 4k.

Ah well, that’s fair enough. Fingers crossed that one day it will be feasible, but a 1080p Technicolor release will be beyond awesome in any case.

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4K is also pretty pointless for a scan of a 35mm exhibition print - it’s definitely useful to have the scan at 4K, because of cropping and such and a 4K scan will be more detailed when scaled down to 2K than a straight 2K scan but for the final product, 4K would make practically zero difference - there could be a huge difference in detail if working with the o-neg or even an IP but not from a print - I experimented with this.

Actually, maybe taking the uncompressed files of the final 2K restoration and doing some kind 4K upscale using the advanced scaling techniques people have been using to upscale the GOUT might yield more impressive 4K results than working in 4K throughout.

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team_negative1 said:

  1. Base of the project is from Technicolor
  2. Missing frames and scenes will be from an Eastman Kodak print (Crawl, etc)

Just my opinion, but I think the Technicolor preservation should be exactly that, instead of replacing its '81 crawl with the original from '77. Was really cool to see it included in the Extras folder with SSE.

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Asaki said:

team_negative1 said:

  1. Base of the project is from Technicolor
  2. Missing frames and scenes will be from an Eastman Kodak print (Crawl, etc)

Just my opinion, but I think the Technicolor preservation should be exactly that, instead of replacing its '81 crawl with the original from '77. Was really cool to see it included in the Extras folder with SSE.

If it has an 81 crawl, it has already physically been replaced and is not Technicolor.

But it would be nice to see a fully restored 81 crawl, stabilized with the starfield visible, either as an extra or whatever.

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maybe one could make a blu ray with both options…

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Lasz said:

maybe one could make a blu ray with both options…

Unless TN1 has some great insider secrets, not a single person on this forum (or indeed, apparently, the internet) has gotten homebrew blu-ray seamless branching to work, despite many efforts. If you want to read about it I can try to find the threads and PM you, since it will take us far off topic here for the sake of discussing (so far) completely fruitless efforts.

But yes, it would be fantastic if it would work.

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towne32 said:

Lasz said:

maybe one could make a blu ray with both options…

Unless TN1 has some great insider secrets, not a single person on this forum (or indeed, apparently, the internet) has gotten homebrew blu-ray seamless branching to work, despite many efforts. If you want to read about it I can try to find the threads and PM you, since it will take us far off topic here for the sake of discussing (so far) completely fruitless efforts.

But yes, it would be fantastic if it would work.

I see. Never mind, then 😉