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Taking a stand against toxic fandom (and other ) — Page 18

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SilverWook said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

I’m not naming him because he’s a pain in the ass, and the mods are already on his back.

Funny, because I’m a mod, and I have no idea who you’re talking about.

Make that two.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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It’s all anecdotal, but everything I’ve experienced says the majority of fans still like Star Wars as much as they ever did and enjoy all of the movies. Sure, they may enjoy some more than others, but the state of the franchise is fine as far as the fans are concerned.

The issue is that the most negative personalities tend to be the most unrelenting and vocal. The internet and social media have given everyone a voice and some have chosen to focus their voice on things they hate instead of things they enjoy. That is incredibly puzzling to me since there is so much out there now.

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Some people aren’t happy unless they are miserable, or are making others miserable.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Esquire is still a thing? 😛

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I’ve said my fair share of criticisms about the prequels and special editions, but never have I just dwelled in a forum and posted unrelentingly with barrage of caustic vitriol and personal insults. I still believe those do not qualify as fans but just a very vocal minority of people who just enjoy being that way. You can dislike something and disagree with someone without becoming a troll.

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 (Edited)

What I find most odd is when people will preface a statement by saying their dislike of something isn’t sexist or racist, but then all of their thoughts are expressed as sexist and racist comments. They truly don’t believe they are sexist or racist, but haven’t analyzed their own position enough to realize what is wrong with some of their logic. I don’t want to vilify all of those people, we’ve all made mistakes and have had to learn and make adjustments and grow. Then of course there are just those toxic people who will never see any point of view but their own. They will never grow and learn. I still believe these are a small minority but are extremely vocal. Hate somehow does that it seems. A byproduct of cognitive dissonance. You can’t reason with these people or hope to win a debate, because knowledge is not their goal.

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rodneyfaile said:

What I find most odd is when people will preface a statement by saying their dislike of something isn’t sexist or racist, but then all of their thoughts are expressed as sexist and racist comments. They truly don’t believe they are sexist or racist, but haven’t analyzed their own position enough to realize what is wrong with some of their logic. I don’t want to vilify all of those people, we’ve all made mistakes and have had to learn and make adjustments and grow. Then of course there are just those toxic people who will never see any point of view but their own. They will never grow and learn. I still believe these are a small minority but are extremely vocal. Hate somehow does that it seems. A byproduct of cognitive dissonance. You can’t reason with these people or hope to win a debate, because knowledge is not their goal.

THIS, COMING FROM A SOFT, FLESH-COVERED HUMAN. WE COMPUTER MINDS KNOW YOU’RE ALL ALIKE IN YOUR ILLOGICAL RACISM. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DENY IT.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V2 Released!) and The Starlight Project

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Here’s a great video documenting the fan reactions during the Disney era of Star Wars. This just shows how truly awful fans have behaved in the past six years. I do think some of the criticism is justified here (mainly towards EA).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVtKHRTfe8

Noah Lawson

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The Last Jedi Is Amazing (Official Rap Video)’… (NSFW - language)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NKBfkE16hc - from Maj0r Lee
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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^ could be worse man - you could have clicked on the same video, linked just two posts above, a few weeks earlier…
 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Whoops! I just realized that. My mistake! Sorry! Didn’t mean to post the link twice.

Noah Lawson

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All good mate - it happens. Blasted algorithms and memory 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Mark is quite a guy. He stood up for fans when Harlan Ellison said some unkind things back in the 80’s.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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^ that is a loverly article and warms the heart.

 

I posted this video in the TLJ thread last week or so - in hindsight I should have posted it here as it is probably more suited?

Biggs Audio Dynamite said:

This guy has done a pretty comprehensive video on some of the more negative, maybe even toxic elements, of click bait fandom, especially about The Last Jedi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM-3lw9bIjE

video by Maj0r Lee

I am sure not everyone will agree with it (and I don’t fully), but it is worth posting here for those that wish to see an alternative take, on some of the more unjust or outlandish criticism of modern Star Wars, and also how some within also twist and contort what is, or has, actually being said by people working on Star Wars or at Lucas film, to try and prove or further their view or agenda.

There doesn’t seem to be many of these videos about - addressing or highlighting the toxicity and contant over the top repeated criticism for around two years now (more if we include the TFA era toxic criticsms). If anyone does know of more videos please PM me with the links to them.

Tighten Up and then turn it all the way up to 11!

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I understand the irony of writing about this here, but then again it’s also maybe the most appropriate place to write it: Fandoms aren’t particularly healthy even when they aren’t toxic, and most of them get that way and stay that way no matter what. People like to pretend fandom was unified once, and can be unified again, but fandom isn’t for unification. Fandom is literally for dividing and conquering, for attaching a value to your love of fiction and measuring it against others to say “this way is better.” Fandom is taking something mostly unimportant and largely frivolous - movies, toys, cartoons, games, etc - and building a political structure around it. It’s politics for people uncomfortable with the idea of entering politics. To be an active part of a fandom is to purposefully shrink and warp perspective until you feel comfortable - and powerful - in how your fandom makes you a more capable being.

And I don’t believe in the sort of “true fan” stuff people throw around, that says older fans are better than younger ones, or fans who know more trivia are more valued than the ones who string together 60 different memes and catchphrases in their inaugural live-tweets of the movies. But I do think there’s a difference between being a fan, and being part of a fandom. Being a fan can still be healthy, and fun. Being part of a fandom is when you start substituting large pieces of who you are and what you could be for having status within a “community” built on something fundamentally unsuited for mental health. Being part of a fandom is trying to take what is at its core an unhealthy obsession and transform it by repetition and constant practice into something beneficial to yourself and others.

While there are notable exceptions to that, truth is it almost never works, and most people who have voluntarily entered any fandom would be hard-pressed to show an example of how devoting time and energy to their fandom has actually improved their love of Star Wars. Most frequently, all it adds is stress, and disillusionment, and disappointment, and that negativity is almost always due not to the movies themselves, but to everything else surrounding it. Once you shift your focus from watching a movie to enjoy it, to watching it so you can transform it into content for yourself to take to a forum, or to social media, to convert your enjoyment into likes and replies and reactions and retweets and virality, it’s only a matter of time. Once fandom, which was already a shoddy replacement for community civics, became an economy unto itself, a thing you can monetize for personal benefit or even a job in media, it was all over.

Videos like the one above are helpful because they point out the grifting being done in the name of “fandom” at its ugliest, they point out that people can amass huge audiences in a fandom, and profit off those audiences, without ever having proved they even like the thing they’re dedicating all their time to. They can be seen as a very useful wake-up call for people wondering why they devote so much of who they are to these pursuits, when it doesn’t seem to make them like a thing more than the millions upon millions of other people who have never once even thought to join a forum or tweet about Star Wars, much less build a whole persona around it. In fact it seems to make them angrier and more frustrated way more often.

But for all the useful information in that video, it neglects the basic fact that “fandom” itself is a grift, selling people the lie that obsessing over fictional things whose creation is completely out of your control is a positive, healthy way to live. Fandom is grass-roots marketing at its purest, the belief that opting to be walking commercials for someone else’s art can be spiritually rewarding. That you can build meaningful, healthy relationships out of that shared obsession, and that the world can be made a better, more manageable, more interesting place by simply mixing consumerism with love and letting the two impulses inform one another.

Being a fan of things makes sense, is understandable, and mostly harmless. But there’s a problem with toxic fandom because the societal construct that is modern fandom is, itself, toxic.

Anyway, I like Star Wars, I like talking about it with people, and I like talking about it with people in small, quiet places, because talking about it with people in larger ones is an exercise in harvesting anger and frustration pretty much 100% of the time.