I wonder if some were in this very thread that seemed to come out of the woodwork , think I may have come across a few on Facebook as well …https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-was-targeted-by-russian-trolls-study-says-1148475
“Star Wars has always been politically left-leaning.”
If you consider anything to the left of Nazism as “politically left-leaning” then I guess this statement is true.
I don’t really see the issue with the study. It’s says ten percent of the negative tweets are troll/bots/bigots, which is only half of critical audience. So if anything the critics should be happy that’s it’s validating them… but no, of course this study is just saying “everybody” is racist/sexist. Sure. I don’t see the problem with Rian Johnson retweeting it either, I think he literally stated that it supports what he’s been saying that it’s only a small percentage that sends him stuff like that (this study is after all focused entirely on tweets directed at him).
Also, Collipso, potentially buying bots and actually buying off professional real life movie critics are such incredibly different things in so many ways that I can’t imagine why anyone would think one proves the other.
I wonder if some were in this very thread that seemed to come out of the woodwork , think I may have come across a few on Facebook as well …https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-was-targeted-by-russian-trolls-study-says-1148475
“Star Wars has always been politically left-leaning.”
If you consider anything to the left of Nazism as “politically left-leaning” then I guess this statement is true.
Well Lucas is openly left leaning, so if his biases slipped in that’s the way it’d go. And he’s on record as saying the original films were a comment on Nixon and Vietnam, amongst other things. Whether the politics actually make it through in the film is up for debate, but I think the argument that the ST is significantly more politically biased than the OT is not accurate, mostly because I don’t actually think the ST is all that political (the most commonly cited factor, a diverse cast, should not be considered a political statement in my mind).
I wonder if some were in this very thread that seemed to come out of the woodwork , think I may have come across a few on Facebook as well …https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-was-targeted-by-russian-trolls-study-says-1148475
“Star Wars has always been politically left-leaning.”
If you consider anything to the left of Nazism as “politically left-leaning” then I guess this statement is true.
Well Lucas is openly left leaning, so if his biases slipped in that’s the way it’s go. And he’s on record as saying the original films were a comment on Nixon and Vietnam, amongst other things. Whether the politics actually make it through in the film is up for debate, but I think the argument that the ST is significantly more politically biased than the OT is not accurate, mostly because I don’t actually think the ST is all that political (the most commonly cited factor, a diverse cast, should not be considered a political statement in my mind).
+10000
I don’t really see the issue with the study. It’s says ten percent of the negative tweets are troll/bots/bigots, which is only half of critical audience. So if anything the critics should be happy that’s it’s validating them… but no, of course this study is just saying “everybody” is racist/sexist. Sure. I don’t see the problem with Rian Johnson retweeting it either, I think he literally stated that it supports what he’s been saying that it’s only a small percentage that sends him stuff like that (this study is after all focused entirely on tweets directed at him).
Also, Collipso, potentially buying bots and actually buying off professional real life movie critics are such incredibly different things in so many ways that I can’t imagine why anyone would think one proves the other.
I also don’t have a problem with the study. I take issue with the conclusions that are drawn based on the select few who sent tweets to RJ, and the use this group as some accurate representation of the fandom in general. I take issue with his “political” category, which equates political affiliations (oddly restricted to right wing politics) with active political messaging and subversion, which is presented as some sort of proof, that the backlash isn’t real, mostly Trump supporters, bigots, and Russian bots.
I don’t really see the issue with the study. It’s says ten percent of the negative tweets are troll/bots/bigots, which is only half of critical audience. So if anything the critics should be happy that’s it’s validating them… but no, of course this study is just saying “everybody” is racist/sexist. Sure. I don’t see the problem with Rian Johnson retweeting it either, I think he literally stated that it supports what he’s been saying that it’s only a small percentage that sends him stuff like that (this study is after all focused entirely on tweets directed at him).
Also, Collipso, potentially buying bots and actually buying off professional real life movie critics are such incredibly different things in so many ways that I can’t imagine why anyone would think one proves the other.
I also don’t have a problem with the study. I take issue with the conclusions that are drawn based on the select few who sent tweets to RJ, and the use this group as some accurate representation of the fandom in general. I take issue with his “political” category, which equates political affiliations (oddly restricted to right wing politics) with active political messaging and subversion, which is presented as some sort of proof, that the backlash isn’t real, mostly Trump supporters, bigots, and Russian bots.
Well I don’t think the study is perfect either, obviously it’s an incredibly small and specific sample set, plus there’s a response bias that tends towards the extremes. But I still think it’s an interesting curiosity, insofar as a comprehensive study would be impossible this provides a decent snapshot.
I still don’t understand why you say it “proves the backlash isn’t real, mostly bots and trolls and such,” because that isn’t what it proves at all.
I wonder if some were in this very thread that seemed to come out of the woodwork , think I may have come across a few on Facebook as well …https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-was-targeted-by-russian-trolls-study-says-1148475
“Star Wars has always been politically left-leaning.”
If you consider anything to the left of Nazism as “politically left-leaning” then I guess this statement is true.
Well Lucas is openly left leaning, so if his biases slipped in that’s the way it’s go. And he’s on record as saying the original films were a comment on Nixon and Vietnam, amongst other things. Whether the politics actually make it through in the film is up for debate, but I think the argument that the ST is significantly more politically biased than the OT is not accurate, mostly because I don’t actually think the ST is all that political (the most commonly cited factor, a diverse cast, should not be considered a political statement in my mind).
+10000
That’s a bit excessive, don’t you think 😉
Yes, of course George Lucas is openly left-leaning, but to state so matter-of-factly that Star Wars has obviously always been that way I think is a reach. You have to look really hard to find political commentary or real-world parallels in the OT. Of course there are little things here and there in the prequels. And while I agree that casting a female lead and ethnic minorities does not really make the TFA politically progressive (which the study in question suggests), TLJ does make some very obvious (painfully so at times) social and political commentary.
All this to say that sometimes Star Wars gets political, but to say it has been from the start seems like a bit of a retcon.
I wonder if some were in this very thread that seemed to come out of the woodwork , think I may have come across a few on Facebook as well …https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-was-targeted-by-russian-trolls-study-says-1148475
“Star Wars has always been politically left-leaning.”
If you consider anything to the left of Nazism as “politically left-leaning” then I guess this statement is true.
Well Lucas is openly left leaning, so if his biases slipped in that’s the way it’s go. And he’s on record as saying the original films were a comment on Nixon and Vietnam, amongst other things. Whether the politics actually make it through in the film is up for debate, but I think the argument that the ST is significantly more politically biased than the OT is not accurate, mostly because I don’t actually think the ST is all that political (the most commonly cited factor, a diverse cast, should not be considered a political statement in my mind).
+10000
That’s a bit excessive, don’t you think 😉
Yes, of course George Lucas is openly left-leaning, but to state so matter-of-factly that Star Wars has obviously always been that way I think is a reach. You have to look really hard to find political commentary or real-world parallels in the OT. Of course there are little things here and there in the prequels. And while I agree that casting a female lead and ethnic minorities does not really make the TFA politically progressive (which the study in question suggests), TLJ does make some very obvious (painfully so at times) social and political commentary.
All this to say that sometimes Star Wars gets political, but to say it has been from the start seems like a bit of a retcon.
Well if it’s a retcon, it’s one made by Lucas first and foremost (which admittedly is in character for him). However, based on my readings on the films’ development and construction, I seem to recall it being something very much on his mind while making the films, but I’d have to check to make sure when the comments saying such were made.
And while I’d agree that TLJ makes some social and political commentary, I’d call it very much the kind of inoffensive and non-controversial sort of commentary that you couldn’t exclusively specify as “left leaning” - there aren’t many who disagree with the standpoints that profiting off war and abusing animals is bad (especially seemingly semi-sentient ones at that), and I don’t think the idea that the film has a “man-hating” streak is in any way accurate (as has been argued ad nauseam here).
I wonder if some were in this very thread that seemed to come out of the woodwork , think I may have come across a few on Facebook as well …https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-was-targeted-by-russian-trolls-study-says-1148475
Unfortunately mate, even with a headline of ‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi Negative Buzz Amplified by Russian Trolls, Study Finds’ for the article with the link to the study paper in, some will ignore that (and this below)…
“Among the 967 tweets analyzed, 206 expressed a negative sentiment towards the film and its director, which is 21.9% or a little more than one in five fans. This number includes all negative tweets analyzed, i.e. also those who came from the 44 accounts identified as bots, sock puppet accounts and trolls."
… and instead focus on the political aspects of the study - or have a pop at Rian Johnson at even mentioning it (who has stated he doesn’t have a problem with those not liking the film; he does have a problem with the more toxic elements of ‘criticism’ - by that I think he means the racists, sexists, bots and trolls - and likely those who post death threats and announce his death too?).
Johnson himself alluded to Russian bots being behind a campaign to ‘save’ a character in TLJ too in one of the bonus material feature on TLJ blu ray - seems he may have more of an idea what is going than some.
I’ve seen a few people cast doubt as to Russian bots targeting a film - well, it evidently does happen. It’s not an excuse - just a fact, though some people seemingly have difficulty accepting the truth of such a thing. Russian bots and trolls target this very site - frequently - along many more other popular sites.
At least there is the ‘Culture, politics, and diversity in Star Wars’ thread on here to talk about the political aspects of criticisms towards the series (or parts of it).
" Russian bots and trolls target this very site -frequently-along many other popular sites " - I had a strong suspicion this might be the case , especially when I see threads with titles in Russian language that mysteriously pop up in the wee hours between 2 and 4 in the morning and then disappear . As a former mod , I would think you would have first hand knowledge .
https://www.history.com/news/the-real-history-that-inspired-star-wars As per the parallels to Nixon , it was documented in Rinzler’s Making of Return of The Jedi book and is very much clear if you read the prologue to the novelization of the 1977 film that was ghost written by Alan Dean foster from story conferences with George , Foster also had story conferences with George for Splinter Of The Minds eye . In the Documentary (1983) From Star Wars to Jedi , he makes the connection between Ewoks being like the viet cong as far as primitive technology overcoming high technology ,dropping out of trees, natural traps, using their terrain etc, which was supposed to be the Wookiees in the original drafts of Star Wars .And there are dozens of such interviews from the 80s in magazines like Starlog , Fantastic films , cinefex and others , which I have read over the years , some of which I still have and will try to dig up . I suspect they can be found online somewhere as well .So while the narrative might have been embellished over time , the basic story of the political messages were still there from the beginning . My personal opinion is that they were all just part of the many ingredients Lucas drew from when making the stew that is Star Wars .
I wonder if some were in this very thread that seemed to come out of the woodwork , think I may have come across a few on Facebook as well …https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-was-targeted-by-russian-trolls-study-says-1148475
Unfortunately mate, even with a headline of ‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi Negative Buzz Amplified by Russian Trolls, Study Finds’ for the article with the link to the study paper in, some will ignore that (and this below)…
“Among the 967 tweets analyzed, 206 expressed a negative sentiment towards the film and its director, which is 21.9% or a little more than one in five fans. This number includes all negative tweets analyzed, i.e. also those who came from the 44 accounts identified as bots, sock puppet accounts and trolls."
… and instead focus on the political aspects of the study - or have a pop at Rian Johnson at even mentioning it (who has stated he doesn’t have a problem with those not liking the film; he does have a problem with the more toxic elements of ‘criticism’ - by that I think he means the racists, sexists, bots and trolls - and likely those who post death threats and announce his death too?).
Johnson himself alluded to Russian bots being behind a campaign to ‘save’ a character in TLJ too in one of the bonus material feature on TLJ blu ray - seems he may have more of an idea what is going than some.
I’ve seen a few people cast doubt as to Russian bots targeting a film - well, it evidently does happen. It’s not an excuse - just a fact, though some people seemingly have difficulty accepting the truth of such a thing. Russian bots and trolls target this very site - frequently - along many more other popular sites.
At least there is the ‘Culture, politics, and diversity in Star Wars’ thread on here to talk about the political aspects of criticisms towards the series (or parts of it).
" Russian bots and trolls target this very site -frequently-along many other popular sites " - I had a strong suspicion this might be the case , especially when I see threads with titles in Russian language that mysteriously pop up in the wee hours between 2 and 4 in the morning and then disappear . As a former mod , I would think you would have first hand knowledge .
I’d like to say something before these statements get blown out of proportion. We frequently delete threads/posts and ban accounts from spammers and bots who have IPs traced all over the world—not just Russia—and try to promote all kinds of random sites and products. There’s no evidence to suggest that any of it is politically motivated or geared towards a specific agenda besides driving traffic to questionable web sites where they can steal your personal info. The presence of Russian spam is no more ominous than spam in any other language.
I’d also like to add that while the purpose of this thread as intended by the OP is to promote the positive aspects of standing up against hate in the community while avoiding the political discussions that tangentially arise from that topic, once you start posting articles that are clearly biased in one direction and cite studies that appear less than neutral, you invite the counterpoint and it becomes unreasonable to insist the topic’s scope remain narrow. Discussing the validity of the study and the points it raises is fair game.
MTFBWY…A
https://www.cnet.com/news/actually-half-of-the-last-jedi-haters-were-not-russian-trolls/
“Commentary: Numerous reports say The Last Jedi negativity was influenced by Russian bots and trolls, but the reality is far different.”
"Bay is “moderately disappointed in some of the major media brands” that ran articles without taking the time to get a little deeper. He understands that some of his findings were buried because they produce a less enticing lede than “Russian Troll Army invading the Star Wars galaxy.”
That’s just not what his research suggests.
“The suspected Russian trolls are so few that it is basically the normal amount of Russian trolls you would expect to be present in a high-profile online debate.”"
“Ultimately, it is ironic that in an era when fake news and misinformation are so rife, Bay’s study found widespread appeal via a media-driven narrative that was far, far away from the truth.”
https://gizmodo.com/study-on-the-last-jedis-twitter-haters-finds-that-yup-1829481968
I am waiting to hear a statement from Marvel or Disney on this , but I have seen a lot of vitriol thrown this guys way …and frankly , I think the current Marvel Star Wars comics suck monkey balls , I loved The Last Jedi , but their adaptation of it looks like a fucking 3 year old drew it .They are also driving the character of Vader into the ground . If you want to talk about over exposure , that is the worst offender I have seen . The original Marvel Star Wars had more heart and imagination than the current line up will ever have,talking green rabbit and all , and they knew to keep Vader as a lurking threat in the background so that when he did show up , it had more gravitas . It also goes to show that companies silencing voices is not just directed at conservatives , it happens on both sides of the fence …https://io9.gizmodo.com/star-wars-writer-chuck-wendig-claims-marvel-fired-him-f-1829718822
That talking green rabbit is one of the things I love about the original comic.
I would think Lucasfilm may have kept them from using Vader as much as they would have liked back then though. It was a long time after the movie adaptation when he finally made an appearance.
Anyway, the reasons for firing this guy seem pretty shady to say the least. Who’s really calling the shots, Marvel or Lucasfilm? I thought Lucasfilm had the final say on Star Wars comics, at least they used to.
Where were you in '77?
I’m having trouble finding it, but I believe Marvel has a Social Media Code of Conduct similar to DC’s.
If they do, it’s not surprising that Wendig would be let go.
I am waiting to hear a statement from Marvel or Disney on this , but I have seen a lot of vitriol thrown this guys way …and frankly , I think the current Marvel Star Wars comics suck monkey balls , I loved The Last Jedi , but their adaptation of it looks like a fucking 3 year old drew it .They are also driving the character of Vader into the ground . If you want to talk about over exposure , that is the worst offender I have seen . The original Marvel Star Wars had more heart and imagination than the current line up will ever have,talking green rabbit and all , and they knew to keep Vader as a lurking threat in the background so that when he did show up , it had more gravitas . It also goes to show that companies silencing voices is not just directed at conservatives , it happens on both sides of the fence …https://io9.gizmodo.com/star-wars-writer-chuck-wendig-claims-marvel-fired-him-f-1829718822
Companies don’t “silence voices” of employees. They fire people who blab a lot on Twitter about their politics while using their exposure and status to take shots at those who don’t agree with them. Wendig is still free to use his fame to promote his politics; he just can’t do it from the lofty position Marvel and Disney offered.
Wendig has been acting like an ass for a long time and now he’s playing the victim because it finally caught up with him. If he’d stuck to writing and used his popularity to promote his product rather than his political views, he’d still have a job. At some point, being obnoxious on social media makes you a liability to your employer.
Of course, my assumption is that it’s his mouth that got him in trouble. It could be that his comics suck and Comicsgate makes a convenient scapegoat when nobody is buying your product.
MTFBWY…A
Jay, I’m surprised you support this firing, considering what you’ve said in the past.
Jay, I’m surprised you support this firing, considering what you’ve said in the past.
I don’t. People shouldn’t be fired over their politics or things they say on social media.
MTFBWY…A
Jay, I’m surprised you support this firing, considering what you’ve said in the past.
I don’t. People shouldn’t be fired over their politics or things they say on social media.
I see. Just wondered because your post seemed to suggest an implicit agreement with the justification for the firing.
As for the firing potentially being because of the diminishing returns of his work, I’d be surprised if that was the case, as the series he was taken off of was announced pretty recently (maybe even within this past week), so the other reasons are more likely true.
Also, I’m pretty sure hiring/firing is the domain of the publisher not LFL, though I’m sure they have some sway.
A comic book writer is probably more obscure to the general public than most film directors. Who really cares about his political views? He’s not putting them into the comics? I’m sure Stan Lee probably has opinions I might not agree with, but I probably wouldn’t have known or cared when I was a kid.
And apparently being a comic fan sucks now from all this toxic online B.S., too. 😕
Where were you in '77?
Jay, I’m surprised you support this firing, considering what you’ve said in the past.
I don’t. People shouldn’t be fired over their politics or things they say on social media.
I see. Just wondered because your post seemed to suggest an implicit agreement with the justification for the firing.
As for the firing potentially being because of the diminishing returns of his work, I’d be surprised if that was the case, as the series he was taken off of was announced pretty recently (maybe even within this past week), so the other reasons are more likely true.
Also, I’m pretty sure hiring/firing is the domain of the publisher not LFL, though I’m sure they have some sway.
Maybe I’m confused, but I was under the impression that Wendig has been writing comics at Marvel for a while.
I don’t think he should’ve been fired for his opinions, but if his employer is under the impression that his social media antics have cost or will cost them sales, then I don’t blame them for making a business decision. You take that risk when you know you represent your employer in all your actions and decide to say something polarizing in a public forum. If Wendig had said something off the cuff during an interview, no big deal, but he’s very active on Twitter and really good at riling people up.
A comic book writer is probably more obscure to the general public than most film directors. Who really cares about his political views? He’s not putting them into the comics? I’m sure Stan Lee probably has opinions I might not agree with, but I probably wouldn’t have known or cared when I was a kid.
And apparently being a comic fan sucks now from all this toxic online B.S., too. 😕
You’re getting one side of the story from sites like Gizmodo. Most of these article writers know little, if anything, about the communities and industries they cover and tend to adopt whatever position aligns with their personal politics.
Like it or not, if you blast half your fans on social media (which is what you’re doing when you go hard left or hard right and insult those whose opinions differ from yours), they tend to get upset, which makes you a liability to your employer.
MTFBWY…A
and I know they dont “silence” anyone , as there are other platforms out there for them to speak , I was more referring to the likes of Alex Jones etc who have claimed they are being silenced or “shadow banned” whatever the fuck that means. so it IS a 2 way street
I think perhaps we were better off without social media. It’s turned into a giant restroom wall at a seedy truck stop.
Where were you in '77?