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Taking a stand against toxic fandom (and other ) — Page 11

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Warbler said:

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Ah, so the abused should ask himself or herself, why he or she deserves to be abused, rather than expect respectful discourse? Some people simply deserve fan toxicity for not agreeing with said fans’ points of view. Sorry Kelly-Mary Tran, you shouldn’t have accepted a role in that travesty!

In my view fan toxicity is not solved by pointing the finger at others, but by looking in the mirror.

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maybe , he was under no obligation to do so however .Don’t get me wrong , I am all for the OUT being released , I just think it is plausible that his reaction was knee jerk and retaliatory . but that is just speculation , I don’t know the man personally .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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DrDre said:

Warbler said:

Sorry, but I don’t buy the idea that the fans are to blame. Lucas made bad changes when he did the SE. Lucas made bad movies when he made the PT. These things are Lucas’ fault, not the fans. But worst of all was his stubborn arrogant ego driven decision to refuse to treat the oot properly and give it the release it deserves.

Passing blame, a good basis for any relationship. As allways things are a little more complicated in reality. For one a lot of fans like, if not love the SE and the PT. It’s not Lucas’ fault you are not in their camp,

He made the movies, sure seems like he has something to do with it.

The SE has now been available in a modern format longer than the OOT, which is slowly becoming a distant memory sadly.

Why do you think that is, hmmm?

There’s no objective truth in this situation, only opinions and factors that can be weighed differently depending on each individual, which include film history and preservation, but also Lucas’ rights as the creator of his works, and a whole bunch of other stuff including Lucas’ relationship with the fans. You weigh them one way, Lucas weighs them another way. Lucas has openly stated: “Why would I make any more [Star Wars movies], when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?” In other words Lucas didn’t want to make new Star Wars movies at the time, because of fan toxicity.

The fan toxicity existed due to the bad decisions Lucas made, that isn’t too far fetched either.

to infer that the same fan toxicity may have been a factor (along with a number of other factors) in his refusal to release the OOT.

His refusal to release the oot came long before things got all that toxic.

You do realize how this forum came to be, right? This forum didn’t start in 2006 or 2012, it started in 2003. That should you something about when his refusal to release the oot started.


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There’s no objective truth in this situation, only opinions and factors that can be weighed differently depending on each individual, which include film history and preservation, but also Lucas’ rights as the creator of his works, and a whole bunch of other stuff including Lucas’ relationship with the fans. You weigh them one way, Lucas weighs them another way. Lucas has openly stated: “Why would I make any more [Star Wars movies], when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?” In other words Lucas didn’t want to make new Star Wars movies at the time, because of fan toxicity.

The fan toxicity existed due to the bad decisions Lucas made, that isn’t too far fetched either.

That’s all nice and well, but the entire premise behind taking a stand against toxic fandom, is that there is no excuse for such reprehensible behaviour, and that includes not seeing your favourite movies released. The basis for this forum as I see it, is to make a case in favour of releasing the OOT in a respectful manner, based on well thought out arguments, not to hurl abuse at Lucas or anyone else who refuses to give in to our demands.

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Fans suck, creators suck, but more than anyone or thing, current copyright laws suck. These discussions wouldn’t be happening if SW & its sequels had been allowed to enter the public domain after 14-28 years.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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DrDre said:

Warbler said:

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Ah, so the abused should ask himself or herself, why he or she deserves to be abused, rather than expect respectful discourse?

Lucas is not a battered wife.

Some people simply deserve fan toxicity for not agreeing with said fans’ points of view.

When you don’t want to give the oot the release it deserves, don’t be surprised if toxicity occurs.

Sorry Kelly-Mary Tran, you shouldn’t have accepted a role in that travesty!

I never said that she deserved what happened to her. I agree that went way too far.

In my view fan toxicity is not solved by pointing the finger at others, but by looking in the mirror.

So why shouldn’t Lucas be looking in the mirror?


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Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Ah, so the abused should ask himself or herself, why he or she deserves to be abused, rather than expect respectful discourse?

Lucas is not a battered wife.

Kelly-Mary Tran, and Ahmed Best are not battered wifes… I don’t see how that has anything to do with toxic behaviour towards creators of a work for not getting what you want.

Some people simply deserve fan toxicity for not agreeing with said fans’ points of view.

When you don’t want to give the oot the release it deserves, don’t be surprised if toxicity occurs.

When you make a film like TLJ, and don’t give a character like Luke Skywalker the send-off he deserves, don’t be surprised if toxicity occurs. Seems like a pretty poor excuse for behaving in an obnoxious manner. Toxicity should be rejected in all its forms, and not only if it serves your own objectives.

In my view fan toxicity is not solved by pointing the finger at others, but by looking in the mirror.

So why shouldn’t Lucas be looking in the mirror?

Maybe he should, but as far as I can tell Lucas was operating within his rights as a creator, and copyright holder. We can disagree with his point of view, and try to convince the powers that be of our own, but that’s as far as it goes in my view.

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I think there’s a middle ground that must be held. George Lucas, before selling LFL to Disney, said he himself would never make the ST because he already got so much hate over the PT and didn’t want more of it. So being toxic with your criticism of something is far more likely to be outright ignored. It’s as though people feel the louder they complain the more likely their grievances will have an effect. They don’t realize the strong downward slope that occurs past a certain point.

…or perhaps they don’t care. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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SilverWook said:

Arguably, reducing Jar Jar to nearly a cameo in Episode III was allowing some angry abusive fans to dictate things?

Lest we forget, he buried the original THX-1138 in 2004 and only a much smaller fanbase noticed or cared.

there is’nt as much lime light surrounding that film, THX1138, I actually like both the original and the special edition versions different cut’s are allowed to have there own merits take bladerunner for instance there is’nt any stupidness about the what 4 different versions and no huge whining over the san diego sneak preview thats never been released. The point is although Bladerunner still remains a collosal film it somehow does not attract the idiots as much because it’s more cerebral. Star Wars is simple pulp fun and it is made in a way that it has something for everyone hence why it get’s shall we say “band waggoned” and never before has it been like it is now but it is going in a bad direction and Disney have a responsibility to put something out there i.e. “not in our name” rather than turn a blind eye. It perhaps has come to a crux between rock and hard place but the toxicity is not a death bell but it is like a lead weight dragging everything down and unfortunately change will have to occur to rid the stink of it because it just is not going to go away. There are far to many social media platforms earning off of hate… It might be youtube channels or twitter or what ever. Those people are out to earn off of getting clicks by spewing off about stuff that will appeal to agenda and those social media platforms target the various groups. They don’t neccasarily believe in or care about what is being spewed out as long as they earn the money. the mindless idiots who actually buy “the opinion” crap these morons spout off about to earn money then go fourth and feel empowered to hate on something because this opinion is a collective kind of “cool”. Although it is actually a network of social opinion earners.

Basically freedom of speech i have no problem with, but the whole sale “let’s attack” star wars and make money from this social opinion side of the franchise for clicks / adverts is really blatently obvious.

if you took the money away from the youtube accounts and all the other stuff it would dissapear instantly. Perhaps social opinion should not be allowed to earn?

where as actual instructional or just simply interesting and creative stuff should?

Perhaps there does need to be a creativity meter to earn off a soicial media channel rather than just some twats opinion

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Ronster said:

take bladerunner for instance there is’nt any stupidness about the what 4 different versions and no huge whining over the san diego sneak preview thats never been released.

Blade runner has been released on blu-ray and dvd in I don’t know how many versions. Where as the ot is only released in the version that Lucas wants to shove down our throats. Also I think there is a big difference between a preview version of a film and a version of a film that is the official and basically only version for the first 20 years of its existence.


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chyron8472 said:

It’s as though people feel the louder they complain the more likely their grievances will have an effect.

I think it is more that the the louder they complain, the more likely it is that their grievances will be heard.


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DrDre said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Ah, so the abused should ask himself or herself, why he or she deserves to be abused, rather than expect respectful discourse?

Lucas is not a battered wife.

Kelly-Mary Tran, and Ahmed Best are not battered wifes… I don’t see how that has anything to do with toxic behaviour towards creators of a work for not getting what you want.

You referred to to Lucas like he was an a victim of abuse. He isn’t. He is man that made bad decisions and 3 bad movies and one really stupid decision(not releasing the oot). He got some flack for it. But in the end, he is a zillionaire and can live on that nice Skywalker ranch and live very nicely for the rest of his life without have to work another day for the rest of his life(btw the money he got to do all that came from the very fans you accuse of abusing him). He is no victim.

Some people simply deserve fan toxicity for not agreeing with said fans’ points of view.

When you don’t want to give the oot the release it deserves, don’t be surprised if toxicity occurs.

When you make a film like TLJ, and don’t give a character like Luke Skywalker the send-off he deserves, don’t be surprised if toxicity occurs.

It isn’t right for the toxicity to occur, but it isn’t surprising.

Seems like a pretty poor excuse for behaving in an obnoxious manner.

I don’t think I personally behave in an obnoxious manner. But am entitled to my opinions on Lucas and am entitled to say them.

Toxicity should be rejected in all its forms, and not only if it serves your own objectives.

I guess it depended on what you mean by toxicity. I agree people shouldn’t be harassed or threatened and certainly racist and ethnic slurs and the like are totally unacceptable and some name calling goes too far. But I should still be able to post what I think about Lucas on this forum. I don’t mind if he gets booed a little at a convention.

In my view fan toxicity is not solved by pointing the finger at others, but by looking in the mirror.

So why shouldn’t Lucas be looking in the mirror?

Maybe he should, but as far as I can tell Lucas was operating within his rights as a creator, and copyright holder.

He was within his legal rights, but that doesn’t make it morally right. Also, he wasn’t the sole creator of the ot. Lots of people (actors, directors, make up artists, special effects people, set designers, etc) were involved in the creation of the ot.

We can disagree with his point of view, and try to convince the powers that be of our own, but that’s as far as it goes in my view.

and I can continue to complain in forums like this one and defend my view points. I can also withhold my money from anything that would profit Lucas. It it my money and I have the right.


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There’s a good way and a bad way to deal with criticism. Spielberg caught some flack for the Walkie-Talkie version of E.T., but kept the original film available. I’m only aware of one pro-SE blogger who attacked him for a change of heart on digitally altering his own movies.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Ah, so the abused should ask himself or herself, why he or she deserves to be abused, rather than expect respectful discourse?

Lucas is not a battered wife.

Kelly-Mary Tran, and Ahmed Best are not battered wifes… I don’t see how that has anything to do with toxic behaviour towards creators of a work for not getting what you want.

You referred to to Lucas like he was an a victim of abuse. He isn’t.

jesus warb. he literally said he didn’t want to make anymore movies due to the amount of attacks towards him. there’s no excuse for that.

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Collipso said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Ah, so the abused should ask himself or herself, why he or she deserves to be abused, rather than expect respectful discourse?

Lucas is not a battered wife.

Kelly-Mary Tran, and Ahmed Best are not battered wifes… I don’t see how that has anything to do with toxic behaviour towards creators of a work for not getting what you want.

You referred to to Lucas like he was an a victim of abuse. He isn’t.

jesus warb. he literally said he didn’t want to make anymore movies due to the amount of attacks towards him. there’s no excuse for that.

and then he went back to counting his zillions(zillions that can’t came from the fans). Can’t say I feel too sorry for him. He was never to my knowledge physically attacked. Did some of it go too far? Yes. But much was justified complaining. In my opinion, Lucas acted like a self centered, arrogant, jerk. Sorry, but that is how I feel.


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i’m done here, before i do anything stupid.

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Warbler said:

Collipso said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Ah, so the abused should ask himself or herself, why he or she deserves to be abused, rather than expect respectful discourse?

Lucas is not a battered wife.

Kelly-Mary Tran, and Ahmed Best are not battered wifes… I don’t see how that has anything to do with toxic behaviour towards creators of a work for not getting what you want.

You referred to to Lucas like he was an a victim of abuse. He isn’t.

jesus warb. he literally said he didn’t want to make anymore movies due to the amount of attacks towards him. there’s no excuse for that.

and then he went back to counting his zillions

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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In order to insure things don’t get any worse, I shall leave the thread and cease commenting here for a while and things to get peaceful again and the subject to change. I apologize for getting heated.


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George smothering the OOT is on the verge of being indefensible. But fans spewing toxic hate and abuse is way past the verge - there’s no defense for it and there’s no excuse.

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DominicCobb said:

George smothering the OOT is on the verge of being indefensible. But fans spewing toxic hate and abuse is way past the verge - there’s no defense for it and there’s no excuse.

Absolutely agreed.

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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How much hate was actually reaching George though? Especially when social media was largely in it’s infancy. I can’t see him having time to be online lurking in forums and websites reading stuff. And there were just as many people making calm pleas for the OOT citing Lucas’ previous defense of preserving film history. If he didn’t see/hear the sane people over the shouts of the crazy, then maybe he was only focusing on the negative.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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I agree. I’m simply suggesting it took a certain amount of effort to see or hear criticism good bad or toxic. And once upon a time it took effort just to write and mail a nasty fan letter. Now we have famous people only a few mouse-clicks away from fans good and bad.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?