Taking a stand against toxic fandom (and other ) — Page 10

snooker said:

Whatever you’re trying to start isn’t worth my time.

YOU think too highly of yourself to leave such a conceited comment like that

There’s nothing kind about suggesting someone is toxic.

SilverWook would you kindly wipe my account off your site? I don’t want any association here anymore. Politics have officially infultrated Star Wars and now the franchise is dead to me. They don’t want my white male nerd input and I don’t blame them.

Like Padme said, you’re going down a path I can’t follow

Lmfao

I’m sorry that I sort of egged 'em on. It won’t happen again.

+1

paja said:

snooker said:

I don’t work for the mouse

That’s clearly a rat. Get your rodents straight.

I think it all boils down to how we engage with fans and people in general. It’s allways tempting to cross the line from respectful to disrespectful behaviour in order to “win” the debate, or to vent frustration. I’ve crossed that line a number of times myself, first with Frink, where I inadvertently insulted him and his family, because I wanted to “win” the discussion. Then there was the spat with oojason, where I vented my frustration by attacking his moderation of the forum. It’s just choosing the wrong path to address issues, that might also have been resolved in a respectful manner.

Let’s also not forget that respect goes both ways. If a person promotes diversity, and wants to empower women, that doesn’t automatically imply they hate men. At the same time if a person is conservative, and wants to preserve a certain subculture, that doesn’t automatically imply they hate women. Using the example of the “Mary-Sue” debate, respect imo means saying to someone who’s offended by that word: “Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you, I’ll try to phrase my arguments differently”. However, it also means saying to the user of the phrase: “Sorry, I should have realized you didn’t mean to offend, and I will not judge you for using that phrase in the future”. Respect does not mean “my way or the highway”. Too often the reaction in such debates is: “Screw the other side. I will use the phrase as often as I like, and throw it in an extra time to troll”, or “Screw the other side. I will not engage with anyone using that phrase, because I feel the phrase is bad, and so anyone using it is an *******.”

When I stated I wear my TLJ shirt proudly, I meant it, not because I love TLJ, but because I love Star Wars, and TLJ is a part of that. Just like with people I accept the “bad” with the good. It’s just so petty to mock others for liking things you don’t like, or vice versa. If someone feels the PT is better than the OT, good for them. If someone prefers the SE over the OOT that’s great too. Rather than to just focus on why you dislike a certain movie, lets not forget there are millions of kids out there who got their minds blown by TLJ, and became Star Wars fans because of it, just like the PT and the OT before it, and that’s awesome. I can’t help but believe, that at least part of the reason the OOT wasn’t restored by Lucas, is because of fan toxicity. Lucas of course also had his own reasons, but I think toxic behaviour following the release of the SE, and the PT strengthened his resolve in this regard. That’s why I still hope that one day Lucas will be able to see a fan restoration like Legacy, and say to himself, I never knew the original film could look this good, let’s get this out there. That would bring things full circle for me.

SilverWook said:

I think Lucas had his mind made up long before anyone uttered Han shot first. The marketing hook back in 1995 was One last time.
https://youtu.be/V9077YR0t9E

Sure, but what happened in 2006? I also read a comment a while ago by a person who had worked on the 2004 master, that Lucas did consider also restoring the OOT back then, but ultimately didn’t because of time constraints related to the DVD release date. So, while I believe Lucas allways intended to phase out the OOT, I think he wasn’t completely opposed to restoring the OOT at some point, but after all the negative feedback and often personal attacks in response to the SE and PT stuck his feet in the sand, because he wasn’t going to let some angry abusive fans dictate what’s going to happen anymore than the studios whos meddling he worked so hard to avoid.

Sorry, but I don’t buy the idea that the fans are to blame. Lucas made bad changes when he did the SE. Lucas made bad movies when he made the PT. These things are Lucas’ fault, not the fans. But worst of all was his stubborn arrogant ego driven decision to refuse to treat the oot properly and give it the release it deserves.

Warbler said:

Sorry, but I don’t buy the idea that the fans are to blame. Lucas made bad changes when he did the SE. Lucas made bad movies when he made the PT. These things are Lucas’ fault, not the fans. But worst of all was his stubborn arrogant ego driven decision to refuse to treat the oot properly and give it the release it deserves.

Passing blame, a good basis for any relationship. As allways things are a little more complicated in reality. For one a lot of fans like, if not love the SE and the PT. It’s not Lucas’ fault you are not in their camp, a camp that seems to be growing with each year. The SE has now been available in a modern format longer than the OOT, which is slowly becoming a distant memory sadly. There’s no objective truth in this situation, only opinions and factors that can be weighed differently depending on each individual, which include film history and preservation, but also Lucas’ rights as the creator of his works, and a whole bunch of other stuff including Lucas’ relationship with the fans. You weigh them one way, Lucas weighs them another way. Lucas has openly stated: “Why would I make any more [Star Wars movies], when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?” In other words Lucas didn’t want to make new Star Wars movies at the time, because of fan toxicity. It isn’t too farfetched, to infer that the same fan toxicity may have been a factor (along with a number of other factors) in his refusal to release the OOT.

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.