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THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released) — Page 85

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More mystery: The 35mm IB Technicolor print has the same runtime as our 16mm print.

Maybe WB constructed the 81min cut and George, et al. had a hissy-fit and left everything else up to WB in disgust, but WB decided to release the 85/86min cut in the US to earn money from the growing "Art House"/Indie scene and release their 81min cut elsewhere (e.g., Italy).

My knowledge of this film isn't great. What evidence do we have of the 81min cut being released in the US besides word-of-mouth?

I wouldn't be surprised by American Zoetrope boycotting the US theatrical premiere only to never find out that it was a slightly modified version being shown rather than a butchered one.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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George Lucas is senile. Does he even remembers he sold Lucasfilm to Disney?

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I'm not an expert on the history of this film or the sources for info about it.

Is it possible that Lucas just claimed that the studio hacked his film apart and deleted large chunks in order to justify the changes (mostly scene order) he made to it in 1978? Is the intro video/buck rogers change confirmed by anything but word of mouth or memory?

(Also: I've got an encoding of my reconstruction uploaded (LD+Blu frame-matched to the 16mm, with 16mm audio) if anyone else would like a link by PM, to view it and give feedback, thanks)

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The plot THXens...

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Maybe this 16mm is a working print at a final stage of conclusion. The omission of the Buck Rogers clip (that msycamore post proved existed since the beggining) from the 16mm could be that they haven't secured the rights up to that point... but we can't ask George Lucas about that, or he'll say it was a clip from The Jetsons that was included in his cut.

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What are you guys talking about? The black and white 16mm starts with buck Rodgers. Unless there's now multiple edits of that too

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It does? My copy goes straight to the WB and the Zoetrope logo...

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The 16mm and the 35mm IB have Buck Rogers at the start, the reviews from '71 I can find say it was Buck Rogers, I'd like to see if the review in Rolling Stone Issue 81, which I used to own, but now can't find, mentions it as well.

If anyone has that issue and can check, it would be appreciated.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
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The one from spleen (and it's multiple reencodes) has no Buck Rogers :(

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Here's the problem, the script used to make the myspleen reencodes.

a=ffvideoSource("G:\TEMP\THX1138_16mm\THX1138r1a.mov")
b=FFVideoSource("G:\TEMP\THX1138_16mm\THX1138r1b.mov")
c=ffvideoSource("G:\TEMP\THX1138_16mm\THX1138r1c.mov")
d=ffvideoSource("G:\TEMP\THX1138_16mm\THX1138r2a.mov")
e=ffvideoSource("G:\TEMP\THX1138_16mm\THX1138r2b.mov")

trim(a, 1721, 30599) ++ trim(b, 104,19433) ++ trim(c, 418,11770) ++ trim(d, 312,50058) ++ trim(e, 62,13728)
Crop(0, 180, -0, -180)
Spline36Resize(1280, 720)

The first trim takes out everything before the WB logo

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phbart said:

The one from spleen (and it's multiple reencodes) has no Buck Rogers :(

 "Can you be more specific?"

The original prores files have it, unless I'm going crazy.

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AntcuFaalb said:

jerclayv2 said:

AntcuFaalb said:

16mm: The renders are done and ready-to-go. I'll have them available either tonight or tomorrow evening.

LD: I've finally temporally aligned all three side1s. I'm working on IVTCing currently. There was a field dropped in the master (i.e., the same field is gone on all three LDs) which causes a cadence break. I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should drop the field or insert an interpolated one.

 Hi! Can I already start looking for 16mm on Usenet? But before I do that as a long time lurker I just want to express my deepest appreciation for what you guys do! :) 

After this weekend, yes.

It's also now available at this mega-cool website I've been hearing about.

 Sorry to bug you, but is it already available on Usenet?

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society.

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Sorry. After the original ProRes was uped, two h264 were made for compatibilty sake: one in 1080p and the other in 720p. The 1080p was the one I downloaded. I didn't get the original ProRes because it's kind of huge and I can't play .mov files on my TV nor my BD player...

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Wazzles said:

poita said:

Easiest way would be to output the Bluray via composite video and capture that, or run the composite video into an old VCR and record it, then capture *that*.

The 'hardware' downgrading will do most of the work for you.

 It's not exactly what I would call easy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only BD device that can output composite are older models of the PS3. So in order to do what you are suggesting, you would need one of those older models.

 

There are tons of BD players with composite outputs on them, the LG BD610, a bunch of Pioneer, Magnavox and other models as well.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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AntcuFaalb said:

My knowledge of this film isn't great. What evidence do we have of the 81min cut being released in the US besides word-of-mouth?

It's definitely not a word-of-mouth thing, it is well known that WB took the film and cut 4-5 minutes. The issues young Lucas faced with the studio system has been covered in tons of interviews, documentaries and books over the years. But exactly what Warner did and what was excised has gone undocumented as far as I know.

A few examples mentioned in the links in one of my earlier posts...

An upset Lucas in the documentary Maker of Films from '71:

"Walter Murch did most of the sound work, montages, what have you. The one problem is, that's one of the things Warner Brothers altered considerably, it was much more abstract and much more musical. The film was designed as a kind of opera you know, kind of a musical science fiction film. And the soundtrack was composed under purely musical concepts and they didn't quite understand that, they thought they all had to tell the story. So essentially the biggest change is that they have injected more story, what they thought was the story, that's the story of... they took out all of the humor and the happiness and people laughing and stuff because they didn't..." (the interviewer interrupts him)

^ I recommend it, I think it is still available on the Spleen. It's worth it just to see a young and skinny nerd before his real breakthrough.

In the book Skywalking by Dale Pollock, he writes on p.97 (first printing) how Warner turned the film over to in-house editor Rudi Fehr:

"Fehr cut only four minutes from THX, mostly scenes in the White Limbo and some of George's bizarre attempts at humor."

It's nothing concrete though.

poita said:

The 16mm and the 35mm IB have Buck Rogers at the start, the reviews from '71 I can find say it was Buck Rogers, I'd like to see if the review in Rolling Stone Issue 81, which I used to own, but now can't find, mentions it as well.

Good to hear Buck Rogers is there. I'm really surprised that 1971 35mm IB Tech prints were even struck, the studio hated the film, it wasn't a hit with audiences, and IB Techs were expensive to produce. I could understand if Lucas had a few prints struck around the same time as Star Wars in late '77, but '71? That is awesome. This 16mm print is apparently dated '71 and it's the unmolested cut, so I guess I should stop being surprised.

Also, great job on the scan, Poita! I've only seen a small sized 720p re-encode but even that is beautiful. If only there was a good cure for the fading.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Thanks, msycamore!

Weird question: Is it possible that the original GL cut (i.e., pre-WB-hackjob) was 90min rather than 86min?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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AntcuFaalb said:

Thanks, msycamore!

Weird question: Is it possible that the original GL cut (i.e., pre-WB-hackjob) was 90min rather than 86min?

Good question, my head is ready to explode from all of this. :) To add to the confusion, a lot of different runtimes have circulated in books and articles. IIRC, BFI had it listed as 96min.

Also don't forget this early promo ad:

;)

Also, rewatching that interview in Maker of Films, I get the impression what he actually is talking about there is more about the film he was trying to make and had in his head rather than an actual finished original version that got altered.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Interesting! 81, 86, 90?, 96, 108?!?!?!

My head is going to explode now too.

I wonder if we've had the WB cut all along; save the SEN-with-kids scene, of course...

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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I wouldn't get too fixated on the running time, too many variables there (we already established pages and pages ago that some of those running times were just typos or based on information found on books and similar). I don't see it as too important a topic. All it counts is what original material we can get our hands on.

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You know what? For me, no matter what version we get, I'll be perfectly happy with the 35mm IB print...

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I'm for a "include every single scene in exsistence" version, whichever that might be! Ahah

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Hey guys, I threw together the encode on the spleen and can confirm the original .MOV files of the scan do have the Buck Rogers clip, I trimmed it from the encode as I did not have nearly as much knowledge of the source as you guys seem to! I'm very sorry about that and if anyone wants a 100% unaltered encode of the scan with the clip, reel ends and all I can do one. Just trimmed it to the movie by itself as I thought that was easier for comparison. Sorry for any confusion!!

Total Runtime (w/ Buck Rogers Clip): 01:26:23 / 124277 frames

Full Scan Runtime (NO TRIMS): 01:27:24 / 125754 frames

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It's also possible somebody on "the inside" had the connections to get a copy made before any cuts were done back in '71? We'll probably never know for sure.

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Where were you in '77?

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Not to derail the thread, but is everyone here who's a fan of The Shining on AMPS already? Wanted to start a new thread for that, but not sure if I should do it here or there...

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?