THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released) — Page 7

This could actually be a great two-disc set...

Disc 1: the original cut

Disc 2: erri_wan's still mysterious cut

Original theatrical trailer

Original Short Film

Vintage making of "Bald"

...what do you guys think?

That is great erri_wan! :)

It took longer than I thought it would take to compare these. It's obviously very hard to keep PAL and NTSC sources in sync for very long. What surprised me is the Italian has slightly more picture info top and bottom at times. When there's an extreme pan to the right of the frame, there is more picture there too. It's also a different print, as our thin little white friend isn't there. ;)

Color and contrast are quite different. Some shots have a blue tint in the Italian, and the all white sets have more discernable edges to be seen. (Where the whites deliberately blown out by Lucas to conceal this?) The blinking dot that shows the way out of the holding area is obviously a light in white box that can't be made out in any other version I've seen.

(Post prologue) Some medicine cabinet camera shots are gone. As is the famous side scrolling monitors shot of robot police tending to a prisoner. We get to THX working the robot assembly line faster.

(10:56) Another voiceover occurs when THX returns to his apartment right before he takes a "shower". What is being said here?

(11:43) LUH's medicine cabinet scene is gone. It cuts right to a Italian text version of the "Possible Drug Violation" computer graphic. LUH closing the cabinet is also gone, cutting directly to the holographic naked dancer.

(12:36) Another voiceover as THX watches the robot police brutality channel.

(14:28) A shot of LUH in the apartment with her face to the wall is gone, it cuts straight to the marching monks as opposed to a fade from the missing scene.

(15:13) Most of THX tossing his cookies in the OHM booth is cut. It goes straight to the next scene where he passes out in the apartment. I'm also noting a tiny bit of print damage at some of these edit points.

(15:37) Another voiceover as LUH gets THX off the floor.

(18:43)  There is a P.A. system voiceover in the shot of the joggers. This is not present on the LD.

(18:49) A shot of a man looking out a glass door with a handwritten sign reading "Unassigned Space #3", and another of a man trying to read a numerical sign are both cut, This goes straight to the malfunctioning robot shot.

(20:16) A monitor shot of THX in a crowd not feeling well is cut. THX returning to the apartment and watching more holograms is also cut. THX approaching SEN's apartment cut, This goes strainght to the inside of SEN's place. More print damage at the edit point.

(22:41) A scene of LUH calling for THX is cut. The hologram prayer scene is cut. This goes straight into the middle of THX and LUH discussing what will happen he goes back on sedation.

(24:01) THX showering is cut. This goes straight into SEN walking into THX's prepping for his work shift.  Really obvious film splice as there is a jump in the soundtrack too.

(26:29) Computer display of info on THX in Italian. Different color and font from LD.

(28:26) More translated computer display.

(28:53) Some reordering of scenes here. LUH visits THX in the white void before we see his trial, police pole poking, and medical examinations. THX being toyed with by the unseen technicians has a couple shots cut.

(38:38) Another voiceover as THX is placed with the other outcasts of society.

(40:00) A cut right after the elderly prisoner puts his hand on THX's shoulder. Some of SEN's oratory is eliminated. This goes right to a prisoner with a similar name to LUH being brought in.

(51:17) Another translated computer display.

(1:00:31) Ditto.

(1:02:50)  Holy ****!  SEN's conversation with the children is longer! There is definitely footage here not in the LD! Donald Pleasance actually goofs with the kids a bit more here, and the kids have more dialog. *faints*

(1:14:03) More Italian computer display.

End credits translated into Italian along with a credit for the Italian distributor of the film.

What do you think, sirs?

Holy shit! This is fantastic!! :) Thanks, SilverWook for the comparison notes. With such a different cut I'm willing to believe this is actually the real thing. How this cut could suddenly be aired on television in Italy is a mystery but we are damn lucky that erri_wan caught it, thank you!

Very interesting, some of that dialogue you translated is also in the script:

69.   SCHOOL PLAZA

 SEN is sitting with his head in his hands.  Along one wall is a
 school with windows facing the plaza.  Children are playing
 various games in the center of the plaza.  One group forms a
 human labyrinth and tow children play tag in it.  Two children
 are standing apart from the others, one is adjusting a strange
 device of the other's arm.  After a few moments one child
 approached SEN.

      CHILD
    My inducer fell off.

      SEN
    (Looks up)
    What...?

 The child holds out his arm to SEN.  A small blue plastic
 pouch has detached from the underside of his arm.  He points at
 the other child standing in the background.

      CHILD
    3114 knocked it off.

      SEN
    (Confused)
    Oh?....

      CHILD
    He didn't mean to.

 SEN takes the pouch.  Printed on it are the words "Advanced
 primary economics 5867H"  It is filled with a creamy fluid
 which is dripping slowly out of the plastic tube.

      CHILD
    Look out!

 He grabs the pouch from SEN and pinches the tube shut.

      CHILD
     (Angry)
    What's the matter with you?

 The other child has come over and is watching.

      SEN
    I'm sorry...let me see it again.

 The child reluctantly gives him the pouch and SEN is careful to
 keep it upright.  Sticking out of the child's arm is a small
 plastic receptor tube.  SEN fits the pouch's tube into it.  The
 child looks at SEN.

      CHILD
    What are you doing here?  Where's
    your badge?

      SEN
     (Busy with the pouch)
    I'm an escaped felon.

 The two children look at each other wide-eyed.  The second backs
 off a little.

      FIRST CHILD
    You are not!  Why aren't you
    arrested?

 SEN looks up and smiles and motions the other child closer
 again.

      SEN
    I'm waiting to be picked up.
    Here, hold this...

 He hands the second child the first's pouch and tears a strip
 of cloth from his shirt.  He ties it around the arm holding
 the pouch secure.

      SEN
    There!

 The two children are fascinated, knowing whether to
 believe SEN or not.

      SECOND CHILD
    What's your name?

      SEN
    SEN 5241

      SECOND CHILD
    I'm 3114 and he's 1112

      SEN
    Hello....(looking at the pouch)
    How is that?  Any good....

      FIRST CHILD
    (Shrugs)  O K

      SEN
    When I was in school it was all
    different.  We had to lie in bed
    all the time.  ADVANCED PRIMARY
    ECONOMICS was a bottle about
    this big.... (he indicates a
    football sized object)  It took
    a week.

      CHILDREN
    Wow!

...and this is how the same scene play out in the US original cut:

SEN: What is that? An inducer? Did it fall off?

Kid: Yeah.

SEN: How do you...?

Kid: Look out what're you trying...

SEN: Oh, sorry. Excuse me.

Hello. (to the other kid)

Let me see that again. I think I have it.

Here, give me your arm.

You know... when I was at school, it was all very different.

We used to stay in bed all the time. Combined primary economics...

Combined primary economics was a bottle about this big.

It took a week.

Kids: Wow!

THX 1138 had its wide american release March 11, 1971. I noticed this review, dated March 12, 1971, mention the Buck Rogers opening which I found interesting. According to IMDB the original release had instead a one minute clip from "Things to Come" (1936). So either IMDB is wrong about this or the critic may have seen an earlier screening of the film where the Buck Rogers clip was included, thoughts?

The review show up in one of the documentaries included in the 2004 DVD.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards it but it's still possible the studio tried all sorts of things later down the road when the film didn't go well with the audience. Well, who knows... unfortunately I can't find any more reviews from that time, all reviews on the web are the CGI-version. :(

That poster is new to me. Much too racy for American audiences! I've been keeping an eye out for the late 70's poster that ties in with Star Wars, but haven't found one yet.

By the way, does anybody have a record player so we could capture this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RADIO-SPOT-THX-1138-45-RPM-VG-/130448618218?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item1e5f57f2ea

Cool find! These Radio spots would be nice to capture, unfortunately my player is broken. :(

Never seen that artwork before, is that the cover art on the novel, erri_wan? I do have a nice scanned collection of THX 1138 Posters and Lobby Cards but only from the '71 release, I also have the Italian poster SilverWook linked to a few pages ago, pm me if you're interested.

Anyway, the film was definitely set in the 25th Century. That's how the studio wanted it, not George Lucas. That's how I understand it from several interviews and articles I've read, Lucas even says this in the small TV-documentary from '71 "George Lucas - Maker of Films", where a young and skinny Lucas is very bitter about the whole thing. I recommend you to see it, if you haven't.  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/George-Lucas-Maker-of-Films-documentary/topic/10403/ 

According to IMDB, the film was released in November 1971 in France after it had premiered on Cannes in May that year, so it's possible it could have played in Italy around that time, maybe for a short time. I wonder if the beginning narration on this version is an Italian thing afterall, it seems odd that they wouldn't mention that in the DVD documentary when discussing the studio interference. They don't going into details though but it's a pretty big thing to not mention but everything is possible of course.

From the '04 DVD documentary - A Legacy of Filmmakers: The Early Years of American Zoetrope:

George Lucas - "I did have a bunch of meetings with executives where they wanted to...you know, take the end of the movie with the people on the parking lot, the little freaks running around in the back of the parking lot and put that ahead of the movie and doing the whole thing as a flashback." Lucas describes an studio executive saying, "What we need to do is put the freaks up front!" Matthew Robbins - "They wanted to re-orchestrate the movie to get some of the bizarre things in the very first reel" George Lucas - "Finally they cut 5 minutes out of it, it didn't make any sense."

Here's one of the things Lucas says about it in "Maker of Films" from '71:

"Walter Murch did most of the soundwork, montages, what have you. The one problem is, that's one of the things Warner Brothers altered considerably, it was much more abstract and much more musical. The film was designed as a kind of opera, you know kind of a musical sience fiction film. And the soundtrack was composed you know under purely musical concepts and they didn't quite understand that, they thought they all had to tell the story. So essentially the biggest change is that they have injected more story, what they thought was the story, that's the story of...they took out all of the humor and the happiness and people laughing and stuff because they didn't..." (the interviewer interrupts him)  :(

erri_wan said:

It's not really surprising, in the whole documentary Lucas wanted to show how he managed to win over the evil Empire that was Warner Bros... saying that in one country WB succeeded is something would be diminishing his own glory. I also would omit this info if I intended to self-elogiate myself like George always does. Plus, as far as we know, Lucas might honestly not know about it at all.

 

Yes, but that wasn't really what I meant. I'm thinking there's a big possibility your Italian version is the original 1971 US Warner Bros release cut, only dubbed. Not a slightly different version done by foreign distributors, (that could also be it, as the film was a real bummer in the US, and they would try different things to make it more popular) and if that is the case, I'm very doubtful the narration was part of the American release. That's not something that would hurt to be mentioned in the documentary. To me there's only three possibilities, either it is the Original Theatrical Cut or a slightly different International Cut (something never heard of) or a special TV-cut (how usual is that in Italy? Isn't that mostly an american thing, to censor things in movies for certain TV-stations?) Anyway, I'm very curious to see it. :) Nice cover BTW.

erri_wan said:

It's really hard to guess, I'm still trying to contact the dubbing company to know more but it's not an easy task apparently.

Usually we don't have special TV-cuts of movies. We also don't have a very strict censorship (well not anymore at least) so international films don't usually get butchered (like sometimes happens in Germany or the UK).

As I said when I first joined the forum, the very existance of such version is puzzling even for Italians, we don't usually "alter" movies at all (except for the titles)!

If any attempt to contact the dubbers fails I will contact "WB Italia" and ask them.

This is what makes me believe it could be the original cut. EDIT: I meant 1971 theatrical cut, so I not confuse anyone. ;) In Sweden where I'm from we don't do such things either, only bad retitling sometimes but no dubbing. Whatever version you have, one things for sure, it's very rare! and I'm very thankful that you caught it. Thanks for continuing to look into this! :)

erri_wan said:

I have already check the local libraries network but unfortunately they don't have it, some other cities do but they wouldn't send it so far, the VHS is not on ebay Italy either... the only option left is carboot sales!

 I will keep my eyes open for it.

I just found out what the track "Logo" on the limited FSM soundtrack was intended for, that I talked about earlier in this thread - it was intended for a cool-but-abandoned American Zoetrope logo as a sort of joke; that logo would not resurface until Roman Coppola’s 2002 feature film debut, CQ.

I just thought I would mention it for those who are interested.