THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released) — Page 54

THX11384EB said:

1991 US LD and 1997 Bravo TV are the same source; the 2004 DVD R1 and 2010 Blu A/B/C are the same source as the 1992 UK LD.

The implication is that the original source was lost/damaged/whatever, and so they used the same source that was used in the 1992 UK LD.

What do you mean it's the same source? Do you mean the same film print? If so, how did you find that out? Cropping is hardly a good enough indicator for judging this, as most prints have pretty much the same cropping as the oneg and the cropping seen in those pictures was done when mastering the discs and most likely has no information value whatsoever as to the cropping of the source prints.

Spaced Ranger said:

@ Harmy

THX11384EB ... what he said. :D

But what he said didn't make a whole lot of sense to me (as per my post just above yours).

It is a flashscan based system coming out to a 2K cooled/regulated mono camera. Three flashes per frame to get full 12bit 4:4:4 resolution.

Output is around 2K, RGB frames. No audio.

Spaced Ranger said:

The source is the question. George Lucas complained that his Star Wars original was falling apart (let's just play along with that claim for now) and Star Wars was years afterward. In what condition might the THX 1138 original be, as well?

Why would a director make a "director's cut" (aside from marketing to fill his coffers) and arbitrarily trim the frame throughout his otherwise non-problematic movie? Could it be the negative was gone (for whatever reason) and the choice for source was the U.S. edge-enhanced-DNR'ed(?)-mess master or the U.K. cropped-but-non-processed master?

The original negative wasn't gone, like I said they went back to the original negative for the "director's cut", all print anomalies seen in the US/JAP LD transfer are also present in the UK LD transfer, I'm 99.9% sure it's two different transfers made from the same print. The cropping on that shot posted on the last page doesn't even match the UK transfer anyway, it happen to be similarly cropped at the top of the frame but that's it, and like Harmy said it's completely irrelevant to what source they used for the DVD/BD.

The different cropping between releases is nothing unusual, quite the opposite, in this case it allowed me to take advantage of it where the UK was much better framed in one reel where the US was badly cropped - the infamous "coily" reel. My plan is to upload the full UK LD transfer as well as it have its benefits over the US transfer in some parts, less sharpening artifacts being one of them.

As to what condition the film is in today, ILM's Paul Hill: "Because of the Northridge quake, a lot of the original footage was water damaged. That’s why we knew when we went in that we were going to have to do some extensive restoration work."  http://www.awn.com/articles/people/back-future-ithx-1138i/page/1%2C1 

True story or just marketing speak, that's basically all we know. It's impossible for us to know what condition the material was in and if they had to utilize IP's or other source material for their so called restoration. With George Lucas' obsession to tailor his films according to his own daily fitness, it's hard to not get cynical when reading something like that, but ultimately as with Star Wars, water damaged or not, George Lucas doesn't want his original films out there, if he wanted them saved and to be seen it would happen.

poita said:

If anyone ever wants any 16mm or Super8 scanned to help with this, just let me know. I have a clawless flashscan type system, so worn sprocket holes are no problem.

That is awesome! now if only a scope print would show up for sale. If they even exist...

Yes, re-read that article and I very much believe you are right about your assumptions Baron. Sorry if I misremember where you guys live but were you guys directly affected by it, SilverWook, Baronlando? In Sweden we are happily spared from such catastrophes.

And like Spaced Ranger said, please keep us updated Silver, I am praying to Ohm... on an unrelated note I got my Italian VHS checked a few days ago and it matches what errico sent us a few months ago, the unique intro on his recording was absent. And the quality of the tape was absolutely horrible, I get the feeling this was an old very used rental or something from the way it looked, oh well.

Scary stuff... clearly remember the news reports from that disaster. Let's just hope the next big one is far off.

SilverWook, thanks for letting us know, I wish our bad luck could turn already. I've started to IVTC the pan & scan LD you sent me for an upcoming upload just to get a break from the letterboxed ones for a while. I think it's nice to have this one preserved as well even though it's censored.

Spaced Ranger, don't forget the reordering of scenes in the 16mm/Italian/German prints... see my post on page 49 where I did a little breakdown on all that we know about the versions so far. The reordering of those scenes is very much the kind of thing Lucas would do, just look at his 2004 edits but I'm sceptical about this one...

But even if it was specifically done for TV or foreign markets, it is a fucking bizarre thing to do, why was it done!!?? and the inclusion and absence of the short segment of the SEN scene is equally bizarre, isn't that the kind of footage Lucas would have liked to have restored in '78 or perhaps even more so in '04, if it was included in the '78 re-release cut, why would Lucas want it removed from the homevideo versions... at least now we know that the inclusion of the scene in the Italian broadcast wasn't just a TV version thing, it was in the Italian home video version as well.

Spaced Ranger said:

My comment was only in regard to the U.S. releases (I'll edit in the "U.S." mention). Bizarro-world isn't limited to there. :)

Yeah but like I mentioned, SilverWook's English language 16mm print contains the missing SEN-footage and that different order of those scenes. If it's a print made specifically for TV or not, we don't know. U.S. still seems to be where most of bizarro-world comes from in this case. ;)

Been wanting to see the original in good quality for a while.  The directors cut was an abomination my biggest beef with that beyond the CGI its not Walter Murch's mix.

The original Mixes on American Graffiti and THX 1138 were impressive. 

I don't have the Graffiti BD so cannot comment on whether it has the original mix or not.  I figured it would have some new fangled 5.1 monstrosity.

SilverWook said:

Preserving the pan and scan is a good idea. Maybe somebody can use it someday to "undo" certain shots like the albino lizard.

Yes, that was one of the thoughts I had, the other being the somewhat unique things about it such as the colors and odd computer displays specifically produced for the pan & scan format but unfortunately this one will not be more than a curiousity, there's bad dnr and I mean at the level of GOUT-bad in some instances. I guess you must have activated the noise reduction by mistake or it is simply the fault of the 704. No problem though, I know you only captured it for the color questions we had, not for release.

Very much agree, Skyjedi. Walter Murch is one unsung hero. All his sound work with Coppola and Lucas is unmatched, well Ben Burtt's early work isn't that bad either. ;)