THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released) — Page 28

I have no idea. Unless someone can identify the markings on the leaders or something.

It may be two prints combined, as there is the late 70's WB television logo at the end. It makes no sense, as the nudity and sex scenes would have been censored for broadcast here. The longer SEN scene only adds to the mystery.

Yeah, I am starting to suspect that the "restored original cut" released in theaters after the SW-success could have been slightly different than the version that was later widely available on Betamax, VHS and LD.

The reason:

The different order of the arrest scene

Slightly longer SEN scene

(I bet both of those are leftovers from the "Warner Bros-cut")

I mean, your 16mm version do have the 4-5 minutes that the studio cut - restored, so why does it share the same editing that appeared on the Italian version, and the German version seems to be identical to yours.

Yeah, I am working on a little version history and that was something that just occured to me. I know there was 16mm prints to be seen in libraries around 1978, but if those were the same cut Silver has is anyone's guess.

VERSION HISTORY

When THX 1138 was originally released in 1971, it was in a hacked apart - 81 minutes long version after the studio Warner Bros had taken the film away from George Lucas and cut 4-5 minutes from it, mostly scenes in the "White Limbo" and some of the films bizarre humor were taken out, in addition, Walter Murch's sound design had also been altered.

Even though THX 1138 was released in UK and France in 1971, it wasn't released in Italy until 1976, then under the title "L'uomo Che Fuggì Dal Futuro" ("The Man Who Escaped From The Future"). How much this cut resembles the "Warner Bros-cut" released five years earlier in terms of editing is hard to tell, but both are approximately 81 minutes in lenght. This version opens with a flashback sequence narrated by THX himself. In addition, the usually excellent Italian dubbing in films is sometimes very poor and even alters the story in more than one way. In comparison to the later released restored cut, it includes a slightly longer "SEN talking with kids sequence" and re-ordering of scenes. This editing could very much be a leftover from the "Warner Bros-cut", but the other story differences that occur in the dubbing is more likely liberties taken by Societa Italiana Distribuzione Films which was the distributor for it in Italy. This was the only version available on video in Italy until the "2004-Director's Cut" was released.

It wasn't until after George Lucas' enormous succes with Star Wars in 1977 that Lucas was able to finally release a fully restored cut of his THX 1138. This version restored the previously cut scenes, making it approximately 86 minutes in length.

A German televised version and an American/English 16mm print has revealed that yet another version exists, it is almost identical to the original restored cut but it includes the slightly longer "SEN talking with kids sequence" and the same re-ordering of the arrest, seen in the Italian version.

THX 1138 was finally released on video rental in 1982, it was then in the form of the original restored cut. This version was widely available on Betamax, VHS and Laserdisc, the last release was on VHS in 1996, it has not yet been released on any new formats.

Finally in 2004, a new version was released in theaters for a limited time and released on DVD and later Blu-ray under the banner "The George Lucas Director's Cut". This version is approximately 88 minutes in length, have a much different editing which even alter the story in subtle ways, using alternate takes etc. In addition to using modern CGI, Lucas shot new footage for this version and even reshoot several scenes using computer systems to insert the actors and replace existing footage.

Have I missed anything, how is my English, can I complement with anything?

Another German edition of the novel, this one from 1975.

That so looks like a Heavy Metal cover. :)

The text seems fine to me. I wasn't aware Lucas personally shot new footage, but you know more about THX than I do.

Was the final '96 VHS release the letterboxed PAL video?

SilverWook said:

That so looks like a Heavy Metal cover. :)

 Very much. :)

SilverWook said:

I wasn't aware Lucas personally shot new footage, but you know more about THX than I do.

Was the final '96 VHS release the letterboxed PAL video?

Well, I don't know if he was doing it personally or not but he apparently let new footage be shot for some of the CGI-sequences. I'll have to check were I read that part.

As I understand it, the last video release was the US VHS in '96, the UK letterboxed tape I own was released in '95.

Based on the prequel documentaries, Lucas seems to delegate a lot of work and then gives his input sitting in front of a monitor. He also might have been too busy with Episode III to be shooting new bits for THX.

This is about the only making of article I've been able to find.

http://www.awn.com/articles/people/back-future-ithx-1138i/page/1%2C1

I'd also like to think he wouldn't personally make a silly mistake like the Robert Duvall body double having his hands in the wrong positions on the monitor added to the "report violation" scene! ;)

Thanks for posting, interesting that they mention that the opening titles were in the wrong color.

I'm currently working on combining all the best parts of your LD-captures, that weird artifacts on the end titles in the 8210-transfer also appear on all computer-screens, so I will replace them with another capture as well.

I'll post a few video samples in a while so that you'll know what to expect from this.

SilverWook, could you do me a favor and check how the color appears on the end titles on your Betamax tape? The DC titles are yellow, the LD's are white, I'm curious.

2 words in that article on the DC horrify me, Lowry and grain removal,lol.

The extra grainyness was supposed to be an effect of the original cinematography to suggest a documentary.

Same with American Graffiti.  Then they changed the color timing the audio and the grain levels on the DVD, its an abomination.

The biggest crime Walter Murch's soundwork is gone on the blu rays.

Newly created mixes were put in place instead.

Yeah, I fully agree. The original film were shot very grainy on purpose but then again this isn't the original film so I don't really care unless the same thing were done if they were going to restore the real film by some miracle. But with todays audience they probably would remove any trace of the Techniscope format, really sad.

Erri_wan, that was something I just wrote to include in one of the folders to help some people that is not that familiar with the film, I don't know yet...

Just a preview: http://www.sendspace.com/file/1lz1n8 so that you know what to expect from this project, just IVTC'd and resized, no audio though.

msycamore said:

Thanks for posting, interesting that they mention that the opening titles were in the wrong color.

I'm currently working on combining all the best parts of your LD-captures, that weird artifacts on the end titles in the 8210-transfer also appear on all computer-screens, so I will replace them with another capture as well.

I'll post a few video samples in a while so that you'll know what to expect from this.

SilverWook, could you do me a favor and check how the color appears on the end titles on your Betamax tape? The DC titles are yellow, the LD's are white, I'm curious.

It's impossible to know, as the idiot who did the video transfer panned the frame all the way over to THX standing in the sunset, chopping the credits off completely.

Yeah! Hell! That might be one of the best LD transfers I've ever seen! Love it.

^ +1! It looks great!

And the color is beautiful! Well done :)

SilverWook said:

It's impossible to know, as the idiot who did the video transfer panned the frame all the way over to THX standing in the sunset, chopping the credits off completely.

Ah, now I remember. To be fair, it must have been a tough decision on how to do it for the operator. But it's a little weird, they used to squeeze or letterbox end titles.

erri_wan said:

Msycamore I've just seen the sneak-peak you linked, I LOVE what you did with it.

Harmy said:

Yeah! Hell! That might be one of the best LD transfers I've ever seen! Love it.

Yeah, SilverWook made a fine capture, several in fact. :) It does look ok, at least there's no dvnr-smear on it as far as I can see, but there is some major problems, don't know if you can see it that well in that sample but the edge-enhancement is pretty bad sometimes, there also is some ghosting and it is quite dirty in some parts. But I don't think I'll do so much with it, as I think it will hurt the quality more than it will help.

Here's a more uglier side of this transfer including the dirt stuck in frame:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/lfiptj

erri_wan said:

All I'm saying is, try to make an accurate list of all versions (and differences between them) to be added to the DVD extras.  

I'll see what I can do.

One positive thing is that there's very little aliasing compared to various SW LD-transfers out there. The jaggies are so minor that I'm not sure if I should apply anti-aliasing or not, as the tradeoff will be a slightly softer image. I need your opinions on this.

These are actually some of the worst examples of jaggies in the film, it says quite alot of how good it looks in that regard. I suggest you click and save so that you can swith between them to see the difference. Let me know if I should post before and after video-samples instead.

Unfiltered

Filtered

Unfiltered

Filtered

Unfiltered

Filtered

Unfiltered

Filtered

The clip looks pretty darn good! I'm amazed you can filter out the "rolling bars" the 8210 has that are all too visible on modern displays.

IIRC, there are only two altered shots in the DC where the white hair thing plagues the LD. Is it possible to paint it out where possible using the unaltered shots from the DVD? Then use the heavy digital guns on the remaining shots?

That sounds like a plausible solution for the white hair. I tried fixing it in after effect but I can't get it to work without creating side effects that are worse than the hair itself. The only possible way would be to do it frame by frame and I definitely don't volunteer for that ordeal. But painting it out using the DC could work quite well and as far as I'm concerned, it could just stay in those two remaining shots.

As to the anti-aliasing, I vote for unfiltered, it's so minor, that it doesn't seem to be worth softening the picture.

SilverWook said:

The clip looks pretty darn good! I'm amazed you can filter out the "rolling bars" the 8210 has that are all too visible on modern displays. 

I only boosted the colors and the black level on those clips, maybe that is what makes it disappear, unfortunately I think they will be slightly visible in the "white prison".

SilverWook said:

IIRC, there are only two altered shots in the DC where the white hair thing plagues the LD. Is it possible to paint it out where possible using the unaltered shots from the DVD? Then use the heavy digital guns on the remaining shots?

There are actually seven altered scenes in total and a different colored computer display.

We'll see what magic MeBeJedi can do... Maybe he have already started on it, I guess it will take some time to get rid of it all, it's almost 15 minutes in length afterall.

Harmy said:

That sounds like a plausible solution for the white hair. I tried fixing it in after effect but I can't get it to work without creating side effects that are worse than the hair itself. The only possible way would be to do it frame by frame and I definitely don't volunteer for that ordeal. But painting it out using the DC could work quite well and as far as I'm concerned, it could just stay in those two remaining shots.

As to the anti-aliasing, I vote for unfiltered, it's so minor, that it doesn't seem to be worth softening the picture.

Damn, thank you so much for giving it a try, though. If MeBeJedi doesn't chime in I'll check out this Combustion myself and see if it's something I can manage.