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THE LORD OF THE RINGS: Return of the King (spoilers) — Page 2

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I think it made sense to do it the way they did. In the books Half of why they set out was for Aragorn to reclaim the thrown. In the movies he doesn't want to be king.

What I would of changed is not have the elves come to helms deep, and instead have them come in ROTK when Elrond arrives with the sword. Theoden even said that they did not have enough riders, and that would of played off of the last alliance thing a lot better, then the elves coming to Helms deep which was stupid and made no sense.
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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i disagree rebel, at helms deep in the books the duenadain or what ever the guys are called,(rangers) come to aid rohan, and with them came the sons of elrond as well, in the movie it would have been very confusing if they had brought in the rangers and introduced the new characters, so instead they brought in the elves inorder to give the elfs more importance they used the elf from lorien as the leader because ppl knew him from the last movie. so all they change was the identity of the ppl who came to rohans aid and if you say that is doesnt fit, then take it up with JRR tokein cus it was his idea.

i personally would have been appalled if they had elfs come to the battle in ROTK. it would have gone against the book completely. also remeber that the ROTK battle was the big battle for middle earth, the elfves said that they didn't want to get involved, because it was nolonger up to them to save the day, the race of men has to win this battle by itself.
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So your saying if there had abeen an army of elves fighting with the rohan riders in the battle of the pelenor fields you wouldn't have liked ROTK? lots of things in the movies go against the books, and the movies are all the better for it.

I'm not suggesting the dundedan or the sons of elrond should come to Helms deep (though actually they came a long time after Helms deep if you remember)

I'm suggesting that NOBODY came and it was just the rohan there to fight off the Uruks until Gandalf and Eomer arrived. Bringing the elves took away from the plight of the men, and in the end they all died so it felt pointless.

And as a fan of the books I can't help but be struck by the lack of logic in their arrival. The Uruks left before the elves and only had to go from Isengard to Helms deep, while the elves came from Lotherlien which is 20 times farther (check out the maps) and left after the uruks had been deployed, yet arrived ahead of the Uruks? Not to mention that Haldir brought word from Elrond, yet he lives with and serves Galadrial, and would likely have no knowldege of what Elrond was up to. It all just seems silly to me, and doesn't really add anything to the story.
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Originally posted by: Rebel Scumb
So your saying if there had abeen an army of elves fighting with the rohan riders in the battle of the pelenor fields you wouldn't have liked ROTK? lots of things in the movies go against the books, and the movies are all the better for it.


that would have be too big of a change, it is like the idea that PJ had to bring back sauron.

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I'm not suggesting the dundedan or the sons of elrond should come to Helms deep (though actually they came a long time after Helms deep if you remember)


you sure i was positive that they came with aragorns friend at helms deep.

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I'm suggesting that NOBODY came and it was just the rohan there to fight off the Uruks until Gandalf and Eomer arrived. Bringing the elves took away from the plight of the men, and in the end they all died so it felt pointless.


that would have work i dont mind that idea

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And as a fan of the books I can't help but be struck by the lack of logic in their arrival. The Uruks left before the elves and only had to go from Isengard to Helms deep, while the elves came from Lotherlien which is 20 times farther (check out the maps) and left after the uruks had been deployed, yet arrived ahead of the Uruks? Not to mention that Haldir brought word from Elrond, yet he lives with and serves Galadrial, and would likely have no knowldege of what Elrond was up to. It all just seems silly to me, and doesn't really add anything to the story.


you see that is the movie logic, in the book it wasnt the elves who came it was the rangers, and they set out long b4 the battle of helms deep was to have started. i should add that rangers can move very fast and light when they want to so the logic works in the book.

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yeah I agree. but It wouldn't have bugged me if the elves fought in the pelenor fields or at the black gates, it would of just added to the drama IMHO
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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well its a much smaller alteration to the novels then say cutting out Tom Bombadil, or having Faramir take Frodo to Osiligath, or nixing the whole scouring of the shire, or taking the second half of TTT and putting it in ROTK, yet all of those changes worked well.
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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only half of them did. and they are not the smae either most of these changes didnt effect the central story.
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Just finished chatting with a friend @ school who brought up another niggling issue: what happened to Denethor's palantir? Without it, what reason does he have for being the way he is, other than the fact that Boromir died?

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Originally posted by: Shimraa
only half of them did. and they are not the smae either most of these changes didnt effect the central story.



So having elves fighting with the riders of Rohan in the battle of the pelenor fields is a bigger change? The good guys would still win the battle, so how would it affect the story??
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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cus that was the major battle, and the elves from the begining didnt not want to be a major deciding force in the war for the one ring. that is why.

they will probably have dethenors palantir in the EE version, they did show hints that he had one but only ppl who read the book would have picked up on them.
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cus that was the major battle, and the elves from the begining didnt not want to be a major deciding force in the war for the one ring. that is why.


But hten they changed their minds. That was the whole point of that scene with galadrial and Elrond in TTT. And Galadriels men going to Helms deep. And Arwen convincing Elrond to reforge the sword and take it to Aragorn.

The elves changed their minds, and decided not to abandon the men and leave them to their fates. The opted to be pro-active in the conflict, instead of casual observers.
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Can someone do a decent breakdown of the whole story, coz I ain't got a fucking clue whats going on?!?!;
I've seen the fisrt two a few times, and each time I see them, they make more sense.

But I'm still confused by the whole thing!!!?!?!?!?

And I can't be arsed to read the books!!


Oh and Ive seen all 3!!
Although I could'nt really get into 3. Not because I didn't like it, but because of the four 10year olds behind me and the missus. Stupid little fuckers, thought it would be a funny thing to do, throwing popcorn at the front row but having half a bag land on me. Is it wrong to tell a 10 year old, that if he didn't stop all the yabba and throwing shit AND using a laser pen at the screen, that I'll take them outside and give them a slap if the didn't shut the fuck up.

They did eventually though! Even my bird turned round an gave 'em whats what!!

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Ok!!!!!

Question time!!!

Did Bilbo use the ring when he first found it??
If he did, why didn't the bad guy fo find him earlier?!!

What's the deal with the Eye??..I know it's the bad guy, but why an Eye??

Why doesn't Gollum die with out the ring??Is it because he's following them and so is still close to the ring?

How long did Bilbo have the ring??..Again, if for a while, why didn't Gollum die??


Thats enough for now???


I'll be back!

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i wouldnt have warned them hotrod, i would have taken them outside and dealt with them.

the eye: coz its lidless, its searching...
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Bilbo had the ring for 60 years. He used it but sauron did not sense it because he had not started to come back yet (and because JR TOLKIEN didn't know he was going to write lOTR when he was writing the Hobbit).

the book explains it that hte ring was not "activated" or "awake" so when Bilbo was invisible he didn;t slip into the shadow world the way Frodo did.
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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bilbo used quite a few times actually as far as i remember.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Oh right...Nice one. That does answer a few Bilbo questions.
I wasn't sure if Bilbo went into the same wierd world that Frodo did..!!

But how can they say the journey lasted 13 months?

I don't think that worked too well??

It was 13 months right!!

Otherwise ignore this shit!!

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Whats the deal with Gandalf?

Whats Grey, White and whatever?

When he died he lived like 80 lives or something, right??

If this was Star Wars I'd have no problem knowing whats going on. I've only seen TLOTR films, and they don't explain much too well!

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gandalf was grey at one point, yes. he was a member of an order of wizards that noone really knew/knows what they were doing on middle-earth. in the books there is also described one who is called "... The Brown".

saruman is white for he is the most powerful, and wisest of the order.

gandalf becomes white because HE becomes what saruman was intended to become, thus gaining a lot of power.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Yeah. Basically as I understand it from what Ian Mckellan has said in interviews and according to my middle earth dictionary, Gandalf and Saruman are demi-gods who have assumed human form while in the mortal world to try and keep things in check. The balrog was like the anti-gandalf, a demi-god of a different order who chose a form more lavish and deadly.

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Originally posted by: HotRod
Oh right...Nice one. That does answer a few Bilbo questions.
I wasn't sure if Bilbo went into the same wierd world that Frodo did..!!

But how can they say the journey lasted 13 months?

I don't think that worked too well??

It was 13 months right!!

Otherwise ignore this shit!!



Actually in the books it takes like 20 years by the time its all done. When frodo gets the ring they don;t actually leave the shire for another 16 years, and when they get to rivendell they hang out htere for like 18months I believe. The urgency and the need to keep moving is greatly reduced in the book (or increased in the movies depending how you look at it)
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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Mmmm! Do the EE of the films help you understand whats going on better??

But to be honest, the more times I watch the films, the better it is to get whtas happening.
After watching TTT a few times, I watched Fellowship again and that film made a lot more sense!!
Soon as 3 comes out I'll be straight there to buy and watch it again.

I do like those films!!

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yes! the EE seriously help on understanding some things...
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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and they please the soul of a tolkien fan soo much.
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true.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)