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Symbolism in ROTS

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I saw Revenge of the Sith yesterday on opening night. I have a lot to say about it; some good, some bad...but a couple things stuck out at me. It seems to me that Lucas used some aspects of Christianity to create the concept of the Force, more so in this movie than in any other.

At the end of ROTJ, Luke whispers: Thank God. I'm actually not sure whether it's audible or not, but his lips are moving using those words. That was the first clue. But now, in ROTS....

Anakin: This baby is a blessing.

A blessing from who?

Palpatine: Execute order 66.

Actually really interesting and significant Lucas uses that particular number. 7 is the perfect number in the Bible. 6 is the Devil's number, falling short of 7, the ideal. And 666 is also a really bad number, being comprised entirely of 6's.

So there's some subtle symbolism here; Lucas didn't use "66" by coincidence. Any thoughts on this in general?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I think it's been long known that some of this is inspired by Christianity. The whole things heavy on mythical and theological influences. The themes are so simple and basic though that one hardly notices.

Where does Luck say that exactly?

Isn't it possible that 66 was choosen just because it sounded good? I don't think it dictates Bilical reference being as vague as it is.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Isn't it possible that 66 was choosen just because it sounded good? I don't think it dictates Bilical reference being as vague as it is.


It's possible, but why not 22, 33, 44, 55, 77, 88, 99, 79, 73...there are all kinds of combinations that might sound good. Why 66 in particular?

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Where does Luck say that exactly?


Luke says that (or whispers it, mouths it, whatever) at the end of ROTJ when he's in the shuttle, right after escaping from the fireball erupting from the Death Star.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Don't forget "ye gods" that Jar Jar says in Ep. I.

At the Myth and Magic museum tour thing, Lucas spoke on the force. He was trying to not make a religious statement but wanted religiousity in it, so he tried to make something that drew on everything, sort of an everyman's spirituality without embracing or excluding any one system of beliefs. So you have strains of Shinto (binding all living things together with a "force"), Christianity (a conscious, purposeful power greater than us that works through us to accomplish its own good will when we surrender to it), a bit of Hinduism with the whole fate/destiny/karma thing (I may be off on that one, feel free to correct me), Buddhism (becoming one with the force through meditation and concentration, with force visions and stuff), the occult of the Dark Side (bending a power greater than yourself to your own will, but ultimately being broken by it and accomplishing that greater power's evil ends rather than your own), and hard-core science (by which I mean believing scientific laws account for the totality of the universe - in this case included by midichlorians).

So it's not surprising to find Christian references in there. I feel the PT has replaced the Shinto edge of the OT with the hard-core science view, but still allows for some sort of spiritual reality behind the science. And I guess it did center more on the Christian/Occult portion of the force... Anakin's bad dreams seemed to come from the Buddhist facet.

But I'm no expert on world religions, I've just had a little exposure to most of them and somewhere heard GL's intention in creating the Force.
If you're going to take forever, then I'm having a hotdog!
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I'll have to pay attention to that scene next time I watch it then.

As for the number, maybe it really was at random. If it's one thing being an Evangelion fan has thaught me, it's that sometime we fans put far more meaning into something that was originally meaningless. Still, I suppose it could be possible, but I somehow doubt he meant for use to ponder the significance of the number.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Originally posted by: Trooperman

Palpatine: Execute order 66.

Actually really interesting and significant Lucas uses that particular number. 7 is the perfect number in the Bible. 6 is the Devil's number, falling short of 7, the ideal. And 666 is also a really bad number, being comprised entirely of 6's.

So there's some subtle symbolism here; Lucas didn't use "66" by coincidence. Any thoughts on this in general?


Then again, new studies show that that 'number of the beast' might not have really been 666:

"Beast's real mark devalued to 616"

Maybe GL will change it in the ROTS SE
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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
I'll have to pay attention to that scene next time I watch it then.

As for the number, maybe it really was at random. If it's one thing being an Evangelion fan has thaught me, it's that sometime we fans put far more meaning into something that was originally meaningless. Still, I suppose it could be possible, but I somehow doubt he meant for use to ponder the significance of the number.


Maybe GL was just invoking symbolism for the sake of sounding cool, sorta like Mace Windu in 'Pulp Fiction':

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Jules: I been sayin’ that shit for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a coldblooded thing to say to a motherfucker ‘fore you popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some shit this mornin’ made me think twice. Now I’m thinkin’, it could mean you’re the evil man. And I’m the righteous man. And Mr .45 here he’s the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you’re the righteous man and I’m the shepherd and it’s the world that’s evil and selfish. I’d like that. But that shit ain’t the truth. The truth is you’re weak. And I’m the tyranny of evil men. But I’m tryin’. I’m tryin’ real hard to be a shepherd.”
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Funny you say that. When I mentioned Evangelion I precisely meant the Christian visuals. They are officially in the series because they looked cool. The creators even outright said that had they known it would have such a following outside Japan, they wouldn't have used it. Even with it debunked as having no meaning to the show, some people still put the symbolism into their interpetations(which are usually wildly wrong because of it). There's one guy who claims to be an authority and insists that it's all Babylonian myth, of which there's maybe one actual reference and flies in the face of known facts(the clain that the Eva's were designed after Babylonian Gods when they are specifically stated to be inspired by oni). Still others have even theorized that it's one big metaphor for sex. My point is, it can be far to easy to read too deeply into something. Though the reverse is true as well.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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66 is a nice round number too, easily divisable by two. The PT has a thread running throughout it of duality and everything not being quite what it seems. Always two there are.
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Originally posted by: TheCassidy
66 is a nice round number too, easily divisable by two. The PT has a thread running throughout it of duality and everything not being quite what it seems. Always two there are.


Plus, there might have been widespread misunderstandings if Palps had ordered the Clones to initiate "Order 69".

"Hey! Kit Fisto! Get over here.... we been lookin' at you...."
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Shhh.....shhh....Wait for it. Wait for it....SNAP.

there you have it.
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Originally posted by: greencapt
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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
I'll have to pay attention to that scene next time I watch it then.

As for the number, maybe it really was at random. If it's one thing being an Evangelion fan has thaught me, it's that sometime we fans put far more meaning into something that was originally meaningless. Still, I suppose it could be possible, but I somehow doubt he meant for use to ponder the significance of the number.


Maybe GL was just invoking symbolism for the sake of sounding cool, sorta like Mace Windu in 'Pulp Fiction':

Quote
Jules: I been sayin’ that shit for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a coldblooded thing to say to a motherfucker ‘fore you popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some shit this mornin’ made me think twice. Now I’m thinkin’, it could mean you’re the evil man. And I’m the righteous man. And Mr .45 here he’s the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you’re the righteous man and I’m the shepherd and it’s the world that’s evil and selfish. I’d like that. But that shit ain’t the truth. The truth is you’re weak. And I’m the tyranny of evil men. But I’m tryin’. I’m tryin’ real hard to be a shepherd.”




"WOOKIE MOTHERFUCKER!!! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?!?"

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"Reach in there and get my lightsaber out of the bag."

"Which one's yours?"

"It's the one that says 'Bad Motherfucker' on it."




Quotes from the AOTC Special Edition coming soon.