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Superman Returns Discussion - SPOILERS

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This thread is for people who have seen the movie and want to discuss it. There will be spoilers, so if you haven't seen it yet, stay away.

So.....

Superman has a kid?!

And why does his kid look about 7 when he's supposedly been gone for only 5 years?

And why does Superman get beaten senseless by Lex and his cronies on the Kryptonite island, but about 20 minutes later he is able to through[/] the island, pick it up and fly into space with it? Sure, it landed him in hospital, but he shouldn't have even been able to lift that thing, let alone fly.

I have to say though, I'm just nitpicking. All in all I loved the film.

War does not make one great.

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Isn't there already a thread like this?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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i think kyroptonite kills his iron skin, but takes time to take everything else away, he did drill through the island and toss it into space pretty fast.
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
This thread is for people who have seen the movie and want to discuss it. There will be spoilers, so if you haven't seen it yet, stay away.

So.....

Superman has a kid?!
I said it before: "Surgeon General's Warning: Sex Causes Children"

And why does his kid look about 7 when he's supposedly been gone for only 5 years?

He's either been raised on the same kind of milk that John Conner was raised on in T2, or it might be that his dad was 6'4". Take your pick. My kid looks at least a year older than his peers and he doesn't come from tall stock.

And why does Superman get beaten senseless by Lex and his cronies on the Kryptonite island, but about 20 minutes later he is able to through the island, pick it up and fly into space with it? Sure, it landed him in hospital, but he shouldn't have even been able to lift that thing, let alone fly.

I think this was total dramatic license that worked for me. Simple mind over matter. Most of the Kryptonite was yanked out of his back by Lois (only a small shard remained ... the difference between a human being stabbed with a poison blade or poked with a poison-tipped needle I suppose). He realized the great importance of what he needed to do, flew up to the sunlight to "recharge his batteries" and then did what he needed to do to save the world. After that he collapsed in a heap. And what saved him in the very end? Lois telling him that, yes, the kid was his. There's no science in that, but it makes for great drama.

These weren't the problems I took issue with. These were decent plot points. The suit, the super-stalker, and the casting of Lois were all that really bothered me.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Ok the I have a few questions.

Fist off let me say I loved this film, so I'm not here to slag it off.

How does Supes travel to Krypton? Does he fly? How long does it take to get there? Does he hold his breath?

Once there how does he survive? I mean, when he's at Krypton, he's just a normal bloke right? But there's nothing there

And where does he get that spaceship from? Did he just make it?

Other than that, I think everything is quite clear

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Originally posted by: HotRod
Ok the I have a few questions.

Fist off let me say I loved this film, so I'm not here to slag it off.

Yes, that's what *I'm* here for!

How does Supes travel to Krypton? Does he fly? How long does it take to get there? Does he hold his breath?

Spaceship, ostensibly the same one that he came in that basically looked to have been destroyed in 'Superman: The Movie'. Singer never really explains it in the film nor really much in the 'prequel' comics. There IS an extended 'return to Krypton' sequence that didn't make the final cut of the film but will be on the DVD either as extras or a director's cut.
It takes supposedly 2 1/2 years there and 2 1/2 years back.

Once there how does he survive? I mean, when he at Krypton, he's just a normal bloke right?


Yep. I dunno. The sun is gone (remember the opening bit where it novas?) so by the time he's there he should have been good and powerless. *Supposedly* this is why he's shown collapsing in Ma Kent's arms after he crashes and returns.

And where does he get that spaceship from? Did he just make it?


See above. The *important* question is... why the heck can't Kryptonian technology have invented- landing gear?!?!? I mean yeah our space program used to have re-entry capsules that crashed into the ocean but at least *we* invented the space shuttle. What a crappy ship when you have to crash-land every time.

Other than that, I think everything is quite clear


Well its something...
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Not that these different Superman universes exactly match up, in Smallville (the series), his ship was kept hidden under the barn for years. I think it was destroyed or disappeared a couple seasons back. But a new, larger one showed up with Brainiac this season that's been a significant plot point. Take what you want from there.

If I ran the Superman universe, Smallville would have gone to the big screen. Lois would have never been introduced on the show (as hot as Erica Durance is). Chloe would NOT have returned after season 3, but the exact plot point of her disappearing into witness protection would have stayed.

Chloe would have simply show up again years later as a scrappy reporter at the Daily Planet with a dye job and bearing her new witness-protection name: Lois Lane. She even wrote an article using that pen name in S3 which was a perfect setup for this. So in the end, Chloe and Clark would be together. But in a way that would have made the entire relationship more poetic. Having Lois in Smallville the way they've done it does NOT help the story. It's just gratuitous.

But I digress. The point is, different approaches to the story have had a Kryptonian ship on Earth that Superman could have taken. But the movie should have addressed this better.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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...along with why he went to Krypton (or the empty space where it once was).
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My major problem with Superman Returns is that they seemed to feel that they needed to make Superman a "trendy" Batman-style hero who spends most of the time struggling with his own personal issues/inner doubts, as well as try to make the series "edger" and darker. While I like Batman, I personally hate that every comic hero now has to emulate him and become an embittered anti-hero.
And the whole Superman has a kid idea I thought was really stupid as well.
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Originally posted by: THX
...along with why he went to Krypton (or the empty space where it once was).


Again we have to rely on Singer's backstory here, and/or stuff that was shot but didn't make it.

Per Singer, Lex (while still in prison I guess) managed to get some astronomers to claim or fake that they had found larger remains of the planet Krypton. Again, per Singer's own backstory, upon hearing the news Superman up and left Earth to find it... without telling anyone. And was gone five years because of it. This in a film that is supposedly a quasi-sequel to Superman I and II, the latter of which Superman at the end of the film tells the U.S. President that "Good afternoon, Mr. President. Sorry I've been away so long. I won't let you down again. "

Well except for the fact that I'll bugger off at the drop of a hat to find remains of a planet that my dead father told me, in no uncertain terms, had been blown to smithereens years ago. Nice.

Anyhow, you bring up one of my gripes with this 'quasi-sequel' or as Singer calls it 'vague history' approach- the audience who (gasp) might not be intimately familiar with STM and SII (after 20-30 years) are left at too many points going 'Hunh? WTF? When? How? Why?'.

I think the film's boxoffice results show this. People saw it once, liked it somewhat but not enough to recommend it to their firneds, etc.
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Originally posted by: HotRod
And where does he get that spaceship from? Did he just make it? Since kryptonian crystals were such a big part of the film, I assumed he 'grew' it from crystals, either on earth or on Krypton (using his powers to get there but needing a ship to get back. How he survived on a dead rock millions of miles away in space I have no idea.

What are these prequel comics you speak of Greencapt?

I agree that all the background details - Lex's release, Superman's departure, etc should have been explained a bit more, but I can let it slide.

And I don't think this was a batman-esque dark emotional Superman. He was just upset that the love of his life was banging Cyclops from X-Men. Understandable really. But when it came to the crunch he still threw aside his personal issues and saved the world.

The only thing I never really bought into or liked was Kate Bosworth as Lois.

Originally posted by: Mike O
Isn't there already a thread like this?
No, there's a review thread. This is a place to nitpick/praise the film without spoiling it for people who haven't seen it yet.

War does not make one great.

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From what I understand about the Donner cut of II, there is no "I won't let you down again" scene at the end. Interestingly, that ties it better to SR, but that is unquestionably the best Lester addition to SII, and I consider it canon.

Forgetting that for a moment, I'd thought that Singer was going to go for the angle where, after meeting three others from Krypton in SII, Superman felt the need to see if there were other survivors. That could have made a good catalyst for why he left.

If Jude Law wasn't such a prick, maybe Zod would have actually told this to Superman. Apparently Singer wanted Jude to play Zod, and when he woudn't commit to the part, Singer dropped Zod altogether rather than find another actor (James Marsters -- not Marsden but Marsters -- anyone? Wayne Pygram?).

That would have worked wonders. Lex and the now-mortal Zod hatch a new scheme to rule the world. Zod tells Kal-El there were survivors from the big bang. Kal-El leaves on a five year wild goose chase, leading us to the movie we saw.

Anybody catch who the old lady that Lex scammed was?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I actually don't think Zod belonged in Superman Returns. In Superman II, he was dropped to his death in the Fortress of Solitude. Even though Donner had him survive, nobody has seen this version, and would make Superman Returns even more confusing of a "semi-sequel", even though it does solve the problem of why did Superman skip out for 5 years.
I think in the end this whole sort-of a sequel to Superman II was basically to be able to skip the whole origin story, which would take up about half the film.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Superman has a kid?!
I said it before: "Surgeon General's Warning: Sex Causes Children"
Well, yes, but what I meant was, what do you guys think of the idea of introducing a super-child?

Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Anybody catch who the old lady that Lex scammed was?
I'd be lying if I said I recognised her, but I heard that the woman who played Lois in the 50s TV show was in Superman Returns, so I'm asssuming that was her? While we're on the subject of the old lady, a lot of people aren't happy with the way Lex's release was explained, and think it's pretty weak to say a serial criminal of that calibre would be released simply because Superman wasn't around to testify, but didn't the old woman at the satrt say that she had somehow helped Lex get out of jail? We don't know how, but there may be more to the story than 'Superman didn't show in court'. Again, it would have been nice to get more detail, but I can live with it.

War does not make one great.

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If I ran Superman, I'd just declare the DCAU history the 'true' version and leave it at that.

4

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Originally posted by: Number20
I actually don't think Zod belonged in Superman Returns. In Superman II, he was dropped to his death in the Fortress of Solitude. Even though Donner had him survive, nobody has seen this version ...

Not exactly. This scene has played on TV for 26 years now and is in the infamous RIC. I never thought the villains were killed in cold blood. That would be too Han Solo anyway.

I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Official word from Warner Brothers on this fall's DVD releases
WHV Releases Superman DVDs Details
Source: Warner Home Video July 21, 2006

Warner Home Video has made the following announcement about the upcoming "Superman" DVDs:

On November 28, in celebration of the year of Superman, Warner Home Video will release a host of DVDs, all starring the late Christopher Reeve in his landmark portrayal of the Man of Steel. Leading the way will be the long-awaited Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut ($24.98 SRP), directed by Donner and representing Superman II as it was originally conceived and intended to be filmed. An overwhelmingly requested title, the movie features Donner's original footage, shot but never used before, including a never-before-seen beginning, a never-before-seen resolution, with 15 minutes of restored footage of Marlon Brando as Jor-El and much more.

Other titles to be released include Superman: The Movie Four Disc Special Edition ($39.92 SRP) which features both the DVD debut of the 1978 theatrical version as well as the 2001 extended edition with commentary from director Richard Donner and Tom Mankiewicz, archival footage of additional scenes and screen tests.

Richard Lester's ever-popular Superman II will be available in a new Two Disc Special Edition ($26.99 SRP) including a new featurette, vintage television specials and additional vault elements; and Superman III and IV Deluxe Editions ($19.97 SRP). Finally, The Christopher Reeve Superman Collection ($79.92 SRP) will be offered in an 8-disc boxed set including all the above (except Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut).

Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut

Superman II will delight fans who, for years, have been imploring Warner Home Video via voluminous numbers of petitions, letters, phone calls and e-mails to release the Donner cut.

In fact, Donner had already shot most of the Superman II footage during Superman: The Movie. But as production on the sequel continued, creative differences between the director and the film's producers became irreconcilable and Donner left the project. Although Richard Lester was hired to finish production, he chose to make major changes to the film, leaving only vestiges of Donner's original vision and concepts in the version of Superman II that was ultimately released to theaters.

Now, nearly thirty years later, Warner Home Video is honored to grant the wishes of countless Superman fans. With this DVD release, Richard Donner has become the first director in history to be able to complete a film he left during production with nearly all his footage "in the can." Adding back a substantial amount of that unused footage, the director has seen his original vision restored and brought to fruition.

Most notably, the "Donner cut" restores the Marlon Brando role, filmed for, but not included in the final theatrical release version of Superman II. The legendary Brando's performance as Jor-El has finally been restored in key scenes that amplify Superman lore and deepen the profound relationship between father and son.

With so many other changes, large and small, including a variety of Lois Lane (Margot Kidder) schemes to unmask Clark Kent as Superman, this Superman II will prove to be an eye-opening experience and an important addition to film history.

Superman: The Movie (1978/2001) Four-Disc Special Edition

A box-office smash, an Academy Award® winner and a fan favorite since it first flew into theatres in December 1978, Superman: The Movie assembles an "A List" cast and creative contingent. At its heart is Christopher Reeve's intelligent, affectionate portrayal of a most human Man of Steel.

The movie's legacy was amplified when director Richard Donner revisited this beloved adventure 22 years later and integrated eight minutes into the film. Enjoy more footage of the Krypton Council, a glimpse of stars of prior Superman incarnations, more of Jor-El underscoring his son's purpose on Earth and an extended sequence inside Lex Luthor's gauntlet of doom.

Superman II Two-Disc Special Edition (1980)

Unwittingly released from Phantom Zone imprisonment, three super-powered Kryptonian criminals (Terence Stamp, Sarah Douglas and Jack O'Halloran) plan to enslave Earth - just when Superman (Christopher Reeve) decides to show a more romantic side to Lois Lane (Margot Kidder). Gene Hackman (as Lex Luthor) also returns from the first film with a top supporting cast, witty Richard Lester direction and visuals that astound and delight.

Superman III Deluxe Edition (1983)

Meet Gus Gorman (Richard Pryor), a half-witted computer programming wiz. Reeve reprises his role, deepening his character's human side as Clark Kent reunites with old flame Lana Lang (Annette O'Toole) at a Smallville High class reunion. When Superman becomes his own worst enemy after Kryptonite exposure, Reeve plays both roles with dazzling skill.

Superman IV The Quest For Peace (1987)

Christopher Reeve not only stars as the title hero again but also helped develop the movie's provocative theme: nuclear disarmament. To make the world safe for nuclear arms merchants, Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman) creates a new being to challenge the Man of Steel: the radiation-charged Nuclear Man (Mark Pillow).

Supergirl
Creative forces behind Superman: The Movie bring another DC Comics hero to life with this fun- and effects-packed adventure about the Girl of Steel. Helen Slater plays the title role, battling a sorceress (Faye Dunaway) for control of an alien power orb. Peter O'Toole and Mia Farrow add more starpower.

SUPERMAN and all related characters and elements are trademarks of and © DC Comics.

The big questions we should all be asking about all the films now:
1) Are these newer/better transfers than the 2001 release?
2) What are the audio formats?
3) Will the International Salkind Editions of I-III be in the set?
4) If not, what exactly makes this Superman III release "Deluxe?"
5) Will all the deleted scenes appear in a supplemental section?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.