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Superman I-III extended TV cuts & Info - Where have the Preservations gone? (Released) — Page 5

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captainsolo said:

The ridiculous number of extra materials will likely never be compiled officially unless a settlement is finally reached between WB and the Salkinds. Wish they would finally.

Can you elaborate about this please? Are the two on bad terms, like with McClory vs Danjaq and MGM?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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PlatB said:

Booshman said:

I’m going with the scaled down option to preserve the 4:3 ratio and so I don’t have to alter the pan and scan composition to account for the reframing.

Yeah, it looks fine. I would be much more concerned about slight resizing BDs of digital films from recent years where pixel-level sharpness is already dialed in.

I managed to re-NTSC the clip using avisynth.
https://mega.nz/#!SwYjiBDD!WcUZxy7NFgKp7se_kubOnXkHtQ40L98cuWErgg8zD1I

mpeg2source(“ABC RIC 2.demuxed.d2v”)
yadif(mode=3) #smartbob
repal() #returns a 24.975 clip
AssumeFPS(24000,1001) #slows the clip back to its original film speed
BilinearResize(640,480, 10.0, 0.0, 704.0, 480.0)

The frame blending is baked in, but the combination of a smartbob (either yadif mode 1 or 3, and they seemed about the same in output) and the old repal plugin is probably as good as it gets.

Thanks a lot for that. I’ll have a go with some of the other missing footage and see how it comes out. How would the script need to be altered for a PAL source, to get it to 23.976fps with the same smartbob result? I would like to do a comparison against another source I have.

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Booshman said:
Thanks a lot for that. I’ll have a go with some of the other missing footage and see how it comes out. How would the script need to be altered for a PAL source, to get it to 23.976fps with the same smartbob result? I would like to do a comparison against another source I have.

People don’t tend to use rePal on PAL, for obvious reasons. 😃 It’s an alternative to SRestore really. You could add the 24.975fps to my script for a similar result. It’s usually correct (though this might be an odd case, which is why I asked how the source was made earlier in the thread). And like PlatB did, you could slow it back down by calling AssumeFPS().

LoadCplugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth\plugins\yadif.dll")
Mpeg2Source()
AssumeTFF()
Yadif(mode=1)#or QTGMC or whatever
SRestore(frate=24.975fps)
AssumeFPS(24000,1001)

I take it that the PAL source on which you wish to work is also field blended – in which case, you could use SRestore on that too. For 25fps input, it should default to returning 23.976fps.

LoadCplugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth\plugins\yadif.dll")
Mpeg2Source()
AssumeTFF()
Yadif(mode=1)#or QTGMC or whatever
SRestore()
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I use QTGMC(“Fast”).SRestore(23.976) for PAL-to-NTSC deconversions, for what it’s worth.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Molly said:

I use QTGMC(“Fast”).SRestore(23.976) for PAL-to-NTSC deconversions, for what it’s worth.

I have never used srestore but I’ll take a look at some point. Repal has been my go-to since development (I helped debug it back then on doom9 under a different handle) as it gets cadence right. There was an alternate fork c.2008 that takes the clip straight from 29.97->25, but in my experience it introduces more obvious stutter (I tried both with the superman clip). The best approach is to get the clip to 24.975 and then apply Assumefps(23.976).

QTGMC seems to be regarded as the best of the smart bob filters, so I expect using this instead of yadif could yield the biggest improvement to the final output.

Recently I found myself working with a NTSC DVD of an eastern European film that had the oddest transfer chain. It was from a PAL source but was standards converted to 23.976 unlike the typical 29.97 (ie the Superman clip, ect). It was a recent DVD master so the 3:2 pulldown flags were 100% accurate without interlacing… but the result was that every single output FRAME (not field) was blended. Even though this transfer method might be cleaner for playback on a 24p capable TV, the side effect is nothing can be done to restore the original (the proper playback speed would be 23.016). Whoever did the mastering clearly had the tools, so why they didn’t slow the 25 back to 24 instead of blending needlessly (what authoring software promotes that?!) is beyond me.

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Molly said:

I use QTGMC(“Fast”).SRestore(23.976) for PAL-to-NTSC deconversions, for what it’s worth.

Yeah, QTGMC is better than Yadif but very slow. Using the fast preset is a good compromise, one that I’ve used in the past. The bobber doesn’t make a huge amount of difference though.

For 25fps input, 23.976fps should be the default value, so it’s probably not necessary to specify. I often specify default values myself though. It never hurts. 😄

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Been absent, but I believe I have Superman II RIC NTSC 2-disc version as my notes don’t indicate otherwise. I might have even gotten it from the source. IIRC, there was a scratch on a disc, where I couldn’t rip it properly, but it played properly.

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captainsolo said:
Also the Donner cut was upgraded with slightly better video and has dtshdma 5.1.

Are you sure about the better video? According to Blu-ray.com, the video transfer was re-used, and my disc from the anthology set certainly seems to be the same VC-1 transfer that was on the stand-alone disc.

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Chewtobacca said:

captainsolo said:
Also the Donner cut was upgraded with slightly better video and has dtshdma 5.1.

Are you sure about the better video? According to Blu-ray.com, the video transfer was re-used, and my disc from the anthology set certainly seems to be the same VC-1 transfer that was on the stand-alone disc.

Ditto, unfortunately.

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Hi, I would like to see SIII RIC with the TV scenes pillar-boxed. This ever been released?

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Not to my knowledge.

I was working on hacking together a RIC of sorts, but shortly after I started trying to synch up the third rip, I burned out and set to work on other projects (this happens a lot to me since I frequently juggle several projects at once) - I might try going back to it soon if I feel up to it.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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skoal said:

Hi, I would like to see SIII RIC with the TV scenes pillar-boxed. This ever been released?

I think it’s only really worth doing in 4:3. For Superman III, the extra footage is only available in 4:3 and pillarboxing that footage to fit the original aspect ratio cuts off too much image to be worth watching for me. It is possible to go widescreen for part 2 since a lot of footage is now released thanks to the Donner Cut, deleted scenes and the new “extended Donner Cut”.

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Booshman said:For Superman III, the extra footage is only available in 4:3 and pillarboxing that footage to fit the original aspect ratio cuts off too much image to be worth watching for me.

You don’t have to cut off any of the image. The 4:3 footage can be pillarboxed and letterboxed. This is what I was trying to explain before. I’ve seen it done, and it works better than you might think. (But, of course, I understand that some people don’t like it.)

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Chewtobacca said:

Booshman said:For Superman III, the extra footage is only available in 4:3 and pillarboxing that footage to fit the original aspect ratio cuts off too much image to be worth watching for me.

You don’t have to cut off any of the image. The 4:3 footage can be pillarboxed and letterboxed. This is what I was trying to explain before. I’ve seen it done, and it works better than you might think. (But, of course, I understand that some people don’t like it.)

I misread the previous post, I was thinking letterboxing the 4:3 footage to match the rest of the bluray footage, so cutting a lot off the top and bottom.

What do you mean by pillarboxed and letter boxed, can you show me how it would look by aletering this image to compare?

[img]http://i.imgur.com/yO4oibp.jpg[/img]

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 (Edited)

I love ya, Booshbaby, but you’re hard work sometimes. 😄 😄 😄 (I am too, I know.)

supes

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You’re talking about pan/scan and tilt/scan. Letterboxing is adding borders on the top and bottom; pillarboxing is adding borders on the sides.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Molly said:

You’re talking about pan/scan and tilt/scan. Letterboxing is adding borders on the top and bottom; pillarboxing is adding borders on the sides.

Of course that’s what letterboxing and pillarboxing are. The footage that we have in 4:3 has already been panned and scanned. I am indeed talking about letterboxing and pillarboxing it to integrate it with widescreen footage (without cropping either). Just look at the picture above!

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Chewtobacca said:

I love ya, Booshbaby, but you’re hard work sometimes. 😄 😄 😄 (I am too, I know.)

supes

Ah, so dropping in the footage as is, but within the black border of the original film. So the sides drop out during the added footage?

It’s one way of doing it is suppose. My preference for part 3 would just be completely 4:3.

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I agree, and as far as I had done it - I think I had a 24 fps DVD and the Yorkshire rip synched up, plus all the extra footage synched in with the BD rip I acquired, and had done maybe 20 or 25 minutes before I got and decided to try to integrate the WXYZ cap - that’s where I was when I left off. (It’s kind-of hard to do it in Avisynth/AvsPMod, but doable.) I was panscanning the widescreen footage myself, roughly similar to the Yorkshire airing.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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You might want to hold off doing a Superman 3 just yet as a I have a higher quality source tape (Superman III - ITV MAY-07-1990). I also have another tv broadcast coming in the post this week. I’ll add more info soon.

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Booshman said:
Ah, so dropping in the footage as is, but within the black border of the original film. So the sides drop out during the added footage?

Yes. The added footage accounts for only a small portion of the runtime, so this way you can watch the whole film in widescreen, obviate the laborious process of panning and scanning, and avoid heavy cropping. While I understand that some might not like this approach, it definitely has its merits.

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Ooh, nice.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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RossDaBoss said:

You might want to hold off doing a Superman 3 just yet as a I have a higher quality source tape (Superman III - ITV MAY-07-1990). I also have another tv broadcast coming in the post this week. I’ll add more info soon.

More info please…

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skoal said:

RossDaBoss said:

You might want to hold off doing a Superman 3 just yet as a I have a higher quality source tape (Superman III - ITV MAY-07-1990). I also have another tv broadcast coming in the post this week. I’ll add more info soon.

More info please…

I’ve now received the other tape and it turns out to be the first UK broadcast of Superman III - ITV (HTV) SEP-05-1985. I believe both tapes are higher quality then the current fanmade releases on Mysleen. I hope to upload some pics or a video sample over the weekend.

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RossDaBoss said:

skoal said:

RossDaBoss said:

You might want to hold off doing a Superman 3 just yet as a I have a higher quality source tape (Superman III - ITV MAY-07-1990). I also have another tv broadcast coming in the post this week. I’ll add more info soon.

More info please…

I’ve now received the other tape and it turns out to be the first UK broadcast of Superman III - ITV (HTV) SEP-05-1985. I believe both tapes are higher quality then the current fanmade releases on Mysleen. I hope to upload some pics or a video sample over the weekend.

Very cool, looking forward to checking it out.