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StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread — Page 77

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John Doom said:
-regrading (for which I suspect he has implemented the same processes he knows was used for the original movie in 1977).

Well, maybe a digital version, since this is an all-digital restoration.

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Hey, we are on page '77. (useless post of the day 😃 )

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I can’t claim to have seen any actual prints myself (except the 97 SE, but A. That’s irrelevant beyond the fact that it was supposedly based on the technicolor, and B. I was seven years old and not exactly paying attention to this kind of thing yet) but everything I’ve seen here that tries to approximate the technicolor looks too green to me. Particularly the Death Star interior stuff. If the Silver Screen version is accurate to the Eastman, then that looks closer to the platonic ideal of Star Wars I have in my head. Still a little dull on Tatooine, though. A happy medium would be spectacular.

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joefavs said:

Still a little dull on Tatooine, though. A happy medium would be spectacular.

That’s how any of the OOT versions should look, though. I think any expectation for vibrant blue skies and bright sand is bleedthrough of SE memories.

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towne32 said:

joefavs said:

Still a little dull on Tatooine, though. A happy medium would be spectacular.

That’s how any of the OOT versions should look, though. I think any expectation for vibrant blue skies and bright sand is bleedthrough of SE memories.

It’s not even so much the skies. I like the bright yellow Tatooine of Harmy’s version better than the beiges of the Silver Screen, but then when we get to the Death Star and everything is vibrantly blue-green it’s too much.

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joefavs said:

towne32 said:

joefavs said:

Still a little dull on Tatooine, though. A happy medium would be spectacular.

That’s how any of the OOT versions should look, though. I think any expectation for vibrant blue skies and bright sand is bleedthrough of SE memories.

It’s not even so much the skies. I like the bright yellow Tatooine of Harmy’s version better than the beiges of the Silver Screen, but then when we get to the Death Star and everything is vibrantly blue-green it’s too much.

There does seem to be a lot of green, even on Tatooine. Look at the scene inside the sand crawler or in the cantina when they meet Han. The craziest though is right after that on the Death Star ("her resistance to the mind probe is considerable). I kinda like the blue-green on the Death Star but this scene sticks out as just really green. Is that actually what the tech prints looked like?

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I know exactly what you mean, that scene is green as hell. I think I might just be dissatisfied with the print references because I’m a child of home video. Didn’t Harmy base ESB 2.0 on a version of the GOUT colors that compensated for known errors? I’d love to see something like that for SW.

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Ths has been stated before, but the Technicolor prints of the time had a green bias, which is pretty easy to compensate for, but the reference Harmy used had not been fully corrected, and he didn’t know how much liberty he could take with that reference (considering that having the reference at all was such a huge improvement over winging it). Now that he knows he can do some correction without angering the Star Wars Gods, I’m sure he’ll use that freedom to make the next Star Wars release much better… that and he’ll also have some great color correction tools at his disposal he didn’t before.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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joefavs said:

I know exactly what you mean, that scene is green as hell. I think I might just be dissatisfied with the print references because I’m a child of home video. Didn’t Harmy base ESB 2.0 on a version of the GOUT colors that compensated for known errors? I’d love to see something like that for SW.

Well, ESB is trickier because there is no better unfaded film alternative (unless there are good super8 options).

He followed the GOUT color more or less for his SW 1.0. But it has many downsides (poorer sources, the encoding itself is much lower quality and a bit blocky, a few things are still specialized, and Harmy had yet to fully perfect his now awesome rotoscoping skills).

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I think jedi1's scans could be another good color reference for TESB. A few frames do look green shifted (in the same scene!), but otherwise look pretty consistent to what (little) we know about its theatrical grading.

Wazzles said:

John Doom said:
-regrading (for which I suspect he has implemented the same processes he knows were used for the original movie in 1977).

Well, maybe a digital version, since this is an all-digital restoration.

😄 Of course, that’s what I meant. I think he himself said that technology has improved enough that it’s possible to digitally get good approximations of the old retiming processes.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/star-wars-silver-screen-despecialized/

I’m on my phone and I can’t remember the code for quoting posts.

“But wait! There’s also a third restoration from a professional VFX technician that’s being shopped to Hollywood executives in an effort to change their mind regarding an official Blu-ray release of the unaltered flicks.”

Is this true? Sounds like a stretching of the truth based on my understanding but maybe I’m wrong.

Jedi Master Skywalker said:
Btw I have started a petition:
https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-the-release-of-the-unaltered-cut-of-star-wars-in-4k/
Please sign
towne32 said:
They should build a whole website and forum based off a petition like this.

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I havn’t seen the team negative 1 project film yet. Where can I watch this or download? thanks if you or anyone can or will help me with this.

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clutchins said:

http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/star-wars-silver-screen-despecialized/

I’m on my phone and I can’t remember the code for quoting posts.

“But wait! There’s also a third restoration from a professional VFX technician that’s being shopped to Hollywood executives in an effort to change their mind regarding an official Blu-ray release of the unaltered flicks.”

Is this true? Sounds like a stretching of the truth based on my understanding but maybe I’m wrong.

This would be Mike Verta’s version, and yes, he does plan to show Disney/Lucasfilm what he’s accomplished.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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joefavs said:

I can’t claim to have seen any actual prints myself (except the 97 SE, but A. That’s irrelevant beyond the fact that it was supposedly based on the technicolor, and B. I was seven years old and not exactly paying attention to this kind of thing yet) but everything I’ve seen here that tries to approximate the technicolor looks too green to me. Particularly the Death Star interior stuff. If the Silver Screen version is accurate to the Eastman, then that looks closer to the platonic ideal of Star Wars I have in my head. Still a little dull on Tatooine, though. A happy medium would be spectacular.

The Silver Screen version is not at all accurate to the Eastman, the colour is all over the place in many scenes, the light leak and lack of low light detail has shifted the colours in the shadow/darker areas are a bit of a mess. The Eastman prints are all faded heavily now, so it is not possible to know any more precisely what they looked like, but you can still work out the colour shif and tone, and the SS doesn’t stick to it with any consistency.

The IB Techs are all off towards green, but it is easily adjusted globally to counteract that push, and that will land you with the closest thing to ‘reference’ colour that you will get.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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poita said:

…the light leak and lack of low light detail has shifted the colours in the shadow/darker areas are a bit of a mess.

Hopefully one of the last few posts on this TN1 derail, but you are helping them out with better scans of the same print, is that correct?

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All the information re the SS edition is in the team-1 thread, I was staying somewhat on topic here pointing out that the Tech prints are the only fade-free version of the film, and that the green bias is easily adjusted for, and that the SS is not useful as a colour reference.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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Fair enough, I see what you were getting at now. I didn’t mean to sound like I was accusing you of being off topic, I meant more that I knew I was definitely taking that conversation into off topic for a minute.

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I haven’t checked in on this thread in a while so I’m afraid to see what’s on the preceding few pages, but I understand there’s been some drama recently.

Let me just clarify a few points:

  1. Legacy will be screened for Fox/Disney executives later this year. At least, that’s the plan, the discussions have started/invitations beginning, and so far, so good. We’ll see.

  2. Legacy uses an absolute shit-ton of references, most of them privately held, to help arrive at an accurate representation of the original photography - and yes, of course I take into account deliberate grading done during production. But I have been provided many references taken from known cameras, on known film stocks with known response curves, often photographed standing 2 feet away from the film camera while shooting concurrently with the live action. In many cases, the stills I’ve seen capture moments from the actual takes which ended up in the film, so these are very useful references which can easily be reverse-engineered to help provide something as close to an accurate reference as possible. Combining that data with the scans from several prints of varying pedigree, and examining original artifacts in the Archives - all of which I’ve done - just build up a huge library of comparative data, and it truly makes all the difference. Ultimately, the look of Legacy is one that tries to maintain the original signal path - I recapture the original photography as far as possible, and then follow the intentional grading done photochemically. The look is neither Technicolor nor Eastman, both of which have idiosyncrasies which color the image in different ways. If I had to describe the final look, it’d be something along the lines of “if Eastman and Tech had a baby,” but not exactly. It’s hard to describe, and it depends on the shot. Final frames will ultimately all be online, and then you can see. Some things just read better on Eastman, and some things read better on Tech, and by “read better” I mean capture what was really on the original negative. But…

  3. It took time. 15 years. Legacy is complete and in a state to be screened. Of course, I still see a billion things I’d like to do to it, still, because that’s always how it is. Even after having gone just berserk and insane on it, still, I will be forever haunted by “what ifs.” Even now, I’m doing some additional R&D on another idea I had recently which might squeeze another percent or two out of things. And of course, I’ll be asking Fox/Disney for a shot at the original materials. That’s the dream.

  4. For all the drama, I just have to say that karma’s a bitch. Stolen scans, ego-driven righteous indignation? That only ends up one place. I have caught more shit in the last however many years for my careful, deliberate, and measured approach to this stuff, and it continues to pay off. But that’s the difference. I care about Star Wars, and not being “the guy who saved Star Wars.” Couldn’t care less about fame or recognition. I married a celebrity once, so I’ve seen all that anyway. I have said many times that the future is uncertain and crazy and we should all just keep the faith. Patience: it is the way of The Force.

Amirite? 😃

_Mike

View the Restoration and join the discussion at StarWarsLegacy.com!

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So I have a question. Let’s say you present this to Disney/Fox and they end up absolutely loving it. If they offered you a job to restore Empire and Jedi in the same manner, would you do it? I ask because I haven’t seen anyone put as much care and attention to detail into a restoration as you have and it would be great if the latter movies could also get the same treatment.

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theMaestro said:

So I have a question. Let’s say you present this to Disney/Fox and they end up absolutely loving it. If they offered you a job to restore Empire and Jedi in the same manner, would you do it? I ask because I haven’t seen anyone put as much care and attention to detail into a restoration as you have and it would be great if the latter movies could also get the same treatment.

Absolutely. I don’t have the same love for those films, but absolute respect for their rightful place in film history. It’s just taken so much to get Star Wars together… so much time, so much energy. I’m so deeply in debt because of it, that the idea of going through all that again is just… what a nightmare. But if I was given the references - I mean, if somebody did the legwork and handed me the stuff and said, “fix this,” it would be great fun, and I’ve got the process for it. I mean, sure. Totally.

By the way, I notice there is talk about “speculation” regarding the “unethical” use of scans. There is no need for speculation, I am happy to provide the specific facts. They are as follows:

Legacy ultimately features the contributions of 4 (really 4 1/2) Tech prints in addition to various Eastman prints. Early on, I was loaned the “Spanish” print by -1. I didn’t end up using much of it, but I had it scanned at 4K. I was also loaned a “so-so” Tech by Person #2, and a really nice Tech by Person #3. For safety, Person #2 was given digital copies of both his AND Person #3’s scans. Person #2 was, at the time, assumed trustworthy, if for no other reason than self-interest. But then things changed. Person #2 decided to give ALL the scans in his possession to -1. Person #3 rightfully freaked the fuck out - he wanted nothing to do with -1, for all the reasons which should now be clear, but it was too late. Of course, relationships have been severed and damage done. Interestingly, in the middle of this process, a member of team -1 reached out to me because they didn’t have the Greedo scene for shit. To be cool, I actually gave them a nice Tech scan of that scene, not knowing they already had it, or were in the process of getting it. So no good deed goes unpunished, I guess.

So -1 ended up with scans they were not supposed to have, and did precisely with them what people were afraid of them doing. However, that’s spilled milk. -1 is in possession of some decent scans, which, when examining their work, should pretty much put to rest any question about how important ability and experience is in film restoration. Clearly, having decent scans ain’t enough.

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I wish you the best in your endeavor, it would be criminal for Disney to refuse this restoration. From the little I’ve seen online you’ve produced a quality that could probably sway George Lucas himself to issue an official release. It would be truly amazing if not long after the release of Rouge One, that we all get to see the direct continuation of that story with the original Star Wars in theatres again.

But here’s a dismal thought that crossed my mind: if your work is approved for release, could you imagine Disney perhaps further modifying it, in a way that would ‘satisfy its creator’ per say?

Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77

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Swazzy said:

But here’s a dismal thought that crossed my mind: if your work is approved for release, could you imagine Disney perhaps further modifying it, in a way that would ‘satisfy its creator’ per say?

I’ve thought through that particular situation many times. Ultimately, it hinges purely on their “getting it,” because there is no way to compel them to leave it alone. You can’t say, “Take it or leave it,” because in truth, they can damn well take it and do what they want to it. Not literally, of course - “my” Legacy is safe and sound no matter what. But in terms of a release, part of my job in pitching it to them is to make the case for why it should be untouched. It’s a pitch I’ve had 15 years to prepare, and I’m pretty good. 😃

_Mike

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