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StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread — Page 22

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Do you think it might be viable to approach Lucasfilm once you've finished the restoration, and just tell them "There you go, release it, make money from it, just put it out there"?

It's so difficult to tell if it's just the pure workload (and its costs) that prevent Lucas from having it released, or just some strange hatred toward it... (although with the recent story regarding the Library of Congress I would assume the latter).

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Probably not the best idea as LFL may just confiscate it. Also, didn't Lucas flat out refuse Robert Harris when he wanted to restore an original version for absolutely free?

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There is absolutely no way, logistically, this kind of restoration makes sense.  You can't throw bodies at it, because there aren't those bulk-repetitive tasks like dirt clean-up which comprise the most of it.  And you can't sit down with a pro-colorist and just hammer the thing out even over months because it's not a "color/grading" kind of thing.  It's literally where every element of every frame needs to be individually considered.  In most cases, I'm pulling every single element apart and treating it independently - that means skin, lips, teeth, shirts, pants, walls, etc.  It's like rotoscoping every element of every frame.  Now, that's not always necessary, of course (!), but whoa - lots of times.  That is, you have to if you want to really try a "recover the negative" kind of thing, because as I said, no one print has it all.  So we're talking just years of maybe a handful of people doing that, because the people have to change skill sets with each shot, generally.

 

I was trained as a generalist - we have to be able to do a broad range of tasks for a job, so that comes in handy.  I've tracked, pulled keys, done digital grading/painting, clean-up, 3D work, compositing... just tons of stuff, all of which I use constantly on this gig.  And I'm also (actually, primarily) a composer, sound designer, and re-recording engineer, so that part of the task is also in hand.  I have facilities and hardware for the gig, and I'm also in software development so I have friends to write tools as I need them.  So really, it's just a lot of things need to happen, and they take a lot of time, and if I was charging pro rates, it'd be millions to do.  Nobody spends that kind of time and money.  Nobody.  I mean, they COULD, sure.  But... they just don't. 

 

When it's over?  Christ.  That's a long way away.  Ask me in 4 years. :)

 

_Mike

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Mike, the STAR WARS logo screenshot, on the same page as the colour fidelity one - has that had "stuff" done to it? I ask because the central yellow colour is exactly the same throughout - [255,237,0] - whereas the outer edges show some variation.

DE

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mverta said:

I have applauded the efforts of all, generally, but been honestly critical when asked, specifically.

There's a difference between being constructively critical and being a dick:

mverta said:

Adywan's tasteless, amateurish hackjobs represent the antithesis of everything my project stands for.  Half of what keeps me going in the dark times is just knowing that that his shit is out there making things worse.  So I guess they're not total wastes. I'm convinced he gave Lucas the idea for those godawful blinking Ewoks with all of his After Effects 101 dicking around.

And by the way, you were asked about adywan's color correction, not his After Effects work, specifically.  In fact, I'm pretty sure you weren't asked about his Revisted projects at all, which are presumably what you were referring to when you called his work the antithesis of your work.

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mverta said:

I think Harmy's Despecialized is a nice offering which could've gone to much greater lengths to improve upon the sources it draws from. 

I'm sure Harmy would welcome some tips, even "anonymous" ones.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Darth Editous said:

Mike, the STAR WARS logo screenshot, on the same page as the colour fidelity one - has that had "stuff" done to it? I ask because the central yellow colour is exactly the same throughout - [255,237,0] - whereas the outer edges show some variation.

DE

Technically, that's an interim shot, but here's the general process with optical titles:

 

First, that slight fringing at the edges is typical of optical titles and you don't want to kill that.  Tiny as it may be in context, you can actually feel it and miss it when it's gone.  Secondly, for many reasons, color on film can vary from frame to frame in unintended ways.  The Tatooine sand is legendary for this: if you isolate sections and really watch, the sand goes from pink to green to blue to yellow to green to pink to... it's all over the map.  The stormtroopers in the compare shot have the same problem actually.  Now, obviously that's not inherent in the photography or natural, it's a photochemical byproduct, usually of aging.  One tool that I use watches pixel values for a given time and determines the average value.  In the case of the title, it is no surprise that the internal color then stabilizes itself to a consistent value.  But this tool also has the often unintended effect of completely removing the grain pattern.  That happens a lot, actually, as I have another tool which recovers details from within changing grain structure.  As it recovers, it also eats all the grain off.

But of course, the grain element is still known...  and it's easy to put back after the fact, without having to regenerate new grain.  By the way, generating new grain is done all the time in restoration, and even though it is virtually flawless (grain patterns for known stocks can be perfectly replicated), the purist in me likes to see the specific grain pattern on a shot put back.  Of course, that's only the grain pattern for a specific print/source (no two are exactly alike) but that's generally what I do.  Pull it out so I can stabilize color and recover details, and then put it back.  So with the title, you're essentially seeing the grain-free interim image.  The comparison stormtroopers/Leia shot, on the other hand, has its grain intact.

 

_Mike

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I just read the last few pages of this thread.

 

So, this will never be released to the general public?

 

Honestly, who gives a fuck then?

 

If this won't be released I can't imagine why anyone (but the creator of this project) would care in the slightest.

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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Stinky-Dinkins said:

I just read the last few pages of this thread.

 

So, this will never be released to the general public?

 

Honestly, who gives a fuck then?

 

If this won't be released I can't imagine why anyone (but the creator of this project) would care in the slightest.

LMAO! I actually agree with you on something.

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Your color grading actually reminds me a lot of what little I've seen of the JSC and msycamore's recent transfer of the Technidisc.  Does anyone else see it?

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Stinky-Dinkins said:

I just read the last few pages of this thread.

 

So, this will never be released to the general public?

 

Honestly, who gives a fuck then?

 

If this won't be released I can't imagine why anyone (but the creator of this project) would care in the slightest.

Well, I can only speak for myself. But as I see it, this seems to be the only way to have the opportunity to get such a preservation done at all.

Imagine this would not be done by someone right now. Then it could be lost for certain. And there would be no future possibility of a proper release.

So, from a 'cultural heritage' point of view - this makes all the difference in the world! Especially since we've learned that the library of congress not only hasn't the capability to do a restoration of this magnitude - it also doesn't have the prints to begin with.

Of course, I am saddened that I probably will never get a chance to see more than a few stills and some insight into the 'making of' part. I can at least be sure that the original StarWars is preserved and locked down in a safe place, prepared to emerge should the road for a release ever be opened up (by whatever circumstances).

Until then, Mike's offer to have a private screening from time to time represents a unique opportunity for a lucky few to see StarWars in all it's glory.

That's more than anyone could have hoped for just a few years ago. And that's why I give a fuck - even if I as a person may 'not get anything out of it'.

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Stinky-Dinkins wrote: So, this will never be released to the general public?

If GL tomorrow says all preservations do not violate his copyright, then we would await what MVerta says next.  The same issue applies to the date when the period of copyright protection ends for these movies, on that date, anyone who is sitting on a project like this has the opportunity to come forward.

In the mean time, this an opportunity to listen to someone going through the same process other people on this forum will probably also attempt.

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The Aluminum Falcon said:

Probably not the best idea as LFL may just confiscate it. Also, didn't Lucas flat out refuse Robert Harris when he wanted to restore an original version for absolutely free?

IIRC, it's more like Lucasfilm hasn't even acknowledged the offer. Been a while since I've read the thread over at the HTF that mentioned it though.

And remember everyone, if you can't say something nice about someone's project, don't go stinking up the thread. Nobody is forcing you to be here. ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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mverta said:

That actually is the word for Star Wars' cinematography: beautiful.  Far moreso than it is given credit for, or thought as.  The lighting is pretty flat, overall, and yet there's really such interest in the color scheme and tonality.  It's also got this really distinct '70's vibe to it, especially in the flesh tones, which read far differently than what we get today. 

Just curious, in an ideal world, who would be the best person/persons to supervise a legit release? Gil Taylor is pushing 100 years old, is there anyone else left from the production with the knowledge and insight necessary?

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bkev said:

Your color grading actually reminds me a lot of what little I've seen of the JSC and msycamore's recent transfer of the Technidisc.  Does anyone else see it?

No, but if you set the contrast right which is very inconsistent and remove the yellow/green push on the old Technidisc LD, I would say you can come close, in what little color information that's still left in an old LD-transfer.

top: SWE Technidisc LD / bottom: a quick correction

and mverta's orgasm bringing pic:

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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SilverWook said:

IIRC, it's more like Lucasfilm hasn't even acknowledged the offer. Been a while since I've read the thread over at the HTF that mentioned it though.

Oh really? I don't remember fully and that might indeed be the case. That would be at least a bit of uplifting news if it had not been rejected outright.

msycamore said:

No, but if you set the contrast right which is very inconsistent and remove the yellow/green push on the old Technidisc LD, I would say you can come close, in what little color information that's still left in an old LD-transfer.

Wow. I do actually see some resemblance between mverta's picture and your tweaked version. With the aid of a few more reference photos, will you try your hand at some color correction for the Technidisc V2, msycamore. The basic color information seems to be there, much more so than the GOUT.

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Nice!  One thing I might caution you guys, though, is that my posted screencaps are WAY preliminary.  Long way to go before I can say with confidence they're right.  I think that Leia/Stormtrooper shot is probably 90%, but that last 10% makes a difference, sometimes a profound one.

 

Even the screencap copied above was updated minutes later with an improved one:

And that ain't final, either.  It's a long road.

_Mike

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Nice picture. It looks even better than the last one which was amazing in itself. Legacy will turn out very amazing.

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I know your not going to release this.

But having many sources would help make it better.

Yes?

And I am thinking you have a film scanner?

If some one had a print and they lent it to you to scan and use.

Could that person get a digital copy of the scan when there print was returned?

No I do not have a print I just wandered?

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I do not have a film scanner, and I would think it would be very risky for any reputable company to agree to scan illegally appropriated materials.  As far as I know, the only companies who possess the best scanners deal directly with the studios regularly, and many of them are MPAA security-certified, which would essentially total their business if caught.  Certainly, soliciting for digital copies of illegally obtained materials would likely bring down the hammer tout de suite.

 

_Mike

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The Aluminum Falcon said:

Wow. I do actually see some resemblance between mverta's picture and your tweaked version. With the aid of a few more reference photos, will you try your hand at some color correction for the Technidisc V2, msycamore. The basic color information seems to be there, much more so than the GOUT.

Yeah, I said that I would like to do a second one with color correction at some point, as I am not satisfied with how it look in some parts. But I decided to release it as it is because I know that some people appreciate a straight preservation of the video as it was.

mverta, I know that they're not final and that my opinions on this doesn't matter but I actually think your previous pic look far more right and natural with more detail if you like to hear an amatuer speak. ;)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Wow, that last screencap looks insanely brilliant. I've been watching the "colour corrected" version since 2004, and this looks like someone just removed my sunglasses.

Mr. Verta, you're a wizard. I don't really care whether I myself get to watch this project - the knowledge that "Star Wars" is safe with someone who cares about preserving this film, warts and all, is satisfying in itself.

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Something you may not have noticed before (actually, this crowd probably has, come to think of it):  Blue drop shadow on the closing credits.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I wanted to return here to let everyone know about the commencement of Legacy 2.0, but now that things are going again, I really need fewer social media sites to check rather than more, so all future discussion will be happening in the forums.

See you there!

 

MTFBWY,

 

_Mike

 

 

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