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StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread — Page 110

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Darth Lucas said:

The acquisition of Fox absolutely makes a difference. It wasn’t released before because Lucas was in charge and didn’t want to.

The acquisition of Fox made no difference at all, because Fox’s distribution deal had nothing to do with Lucas’ unwillingness to release it (although he DID release it while Fox was still distributing the films). Fox never had a say in what version of the films would be released, and there was no reason for them to get in the way of whatever version was released, because it was all the same to them.

Releasing any restoration would be an enormous money maker, and Fox owning distribution rights means that Disney would only get a small percentage of those potential profits.

You’re vastly overestimating how much of a financial draw “The original versions” would be. The audience for “the original versions” is very niche. This sucks (especially since I’m part of that niche and would love the opportunity to spend my money on it) but further - Fox owning distribution rights didn’t mean Disney only got a small percentage. You’ve got that reversed. The smaller percentage was actually Fox’s, and Fox didn’t mind having those distribution rights because even a small percentage of Star Wars money is nice, especially when you don’t have to do much work to get them.

Disney isn’t releasing the original versions (or hasn’t since they took ownership) primarily because they just don’t want to. It’s a sign of respect to Lucas. It’s basically been confirmed, multiple times now, that they’re not putting an “original versions” release out because they don’t want to do it if Lucas isn’t cool with it. It’s not a contractual thing, it’s not a money thing. It’s just that they consider the 2011 blu-ray versions the “canon” versions and they’re moving on from there.

That doesn’t mean the originals won’t be released ever, most likely as an “alternate version” as a bonus feature. It just means they want to make sure Lucas is cool with them doing it first. Maybe he is now (I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s in full “screw it” mode currently) maybe he won’t be until later. Maybe he never will be while he’s still around. But the originals not being released has never had anything to do with who owned the distribution rights.

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Broom Kid said:

You’re vastly overestimating how much of a financial draw “The original versions” would be. The audience for “the original versions” is very niche.

I wouldn’t be so sure on that…

Back in 2004:

“Over the years, a truly countless number of fans have told us that they would love to see and own the original version that they remember experiencing in theaters,” said Jim Ward, President of LucasArts and Senior Vice President of Lucasfilm Ltd. “We returned to the Lucasfilm Archives to search exhaustively for source material that could be presented on DVD. This is something that we’re very excited to be able to give to fans in response to their continuing enthusiasm for Star Wars.”
 

In 2006:

LFL were issuing very hastily PR responses to enormous amount of fans’ concerns re the GOUT DVD release - which caused them more issues.
 

In 2011:

Such was the clamor not to be caught short again they shut the message boards down in the summer on the official site; knowing what was coming with the blu ray release with more changes made to the films in the fall. Spent a fair few extra $$$ on PR around that time too - when money was scarce around the place for many departments.
 

And today:

Ask people who work at LFL what some of the most asked questions are they get quizzed on - the three people I still talk with all still say (with sighs) “When are the original versions being released?”

Even the people at LFL who don’t particulary want to see a release of the theatrical versions know it will sell well - even on a small promotions budget.
 

It is essentially free money. A matter of timing - when, not if. Too long the wait for sure. Though not for the good ‘niche’ people on here: some of the Star Wars preservations on here - wow! (and a great journey along the way too!)
 

Feel free to disagree, it is all I’ll be saying on the matter. Though maybe try and show a little more respect to doubleofive (and the others on here that make this place tick) - the man has spent considerable time and effort compiling the changes made to these movies. He is the ‘go-to’ man for that. Highlighting them, and other content he researches and finds, along with the reasoned comments he makes on them, is far from “irresponsible”.

Peace out.

50 Cent is just an imposter

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I don’t think I’m being disrespectful to anybody at all, but I apologize for coming off that way to you.

But I’m very certain the Original Versions is a niche consumer product now, precisely because none of this is secret. Lucasfilm doesn’t have to do any market research, we’re all out here in the open and they can count us all very easily. We’re not going to make them that much money. That’s not to say it won’t be ANY money coming in. Obviously we represent a dollar amount to them. But The Original Versions is, at best, a bonus feature on a larger release. I’m fine with that, too! I don’t care if we’re a bonus feature so long as we get on an officially released product. It doesn’t hurt my pride or anything.

(as an aside: The boards were shut down because they weren’t needed anymore. They were low-traffic, and their own social media presence essentially made hosting forums pointless, especially for as much problems as they caused for the volunteer moderators (and paid administrators) who had to monitor it. It wasn’t done as a preventative measure for the blu-ray release)

To be clear: I want them to be released. I think they’ll eventually be released. I look forward to buying them when they are released. I’m endlessly appreciative of people who have filled in the hole in that market, both here and in other places, and provided this niche something to enjoy in the meantime, at quality levels nobody could have dreamed of back when this specific thread was first started.

But we’re a niche audience. Niches can still be served and served well. Being a niche audience isn’t an insult, either. But there’s not a lot of money here. If there WAS, there’d probably be a lot more pressure internally to get these versions out there. But there isn’t. We’re a small (but noisy) audience that has, in the meantime, taken care of ourselves. That’s not a criticism or a derogatory. Just because our purchasing power isn’t that strong compared to the general audience’s doesn’t mean we don’t matter, or that our desires are lesser. It’s not a personal judgment on our character or anything. It just is what it is. There’s a small group of fans who really want these versions, and a much, much larger group of fans that doesn’t really care if they’re there or not.

We’re not competing against each other. And we don’t “win” because we make Lucasfilm a lot of money. We “win” because we get to watch the movies we want to watch on the format we prefer to watch them in. Hopefully. Eventually.

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Broom Kid said:

I don’t think I’m being disrespectful to anybody at all, but I apologize for coming off that way to you.

Not just him.

a trolling bantha

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Well then I extend my apology to you too. And anyone else who took offense.

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Broom Kid said:

Well then I extend my apology to you too. And anyone else who took offense.

They’re referring to doubleofive. In his post he specifically referenced you calling doubleofive irresponsible as being disrespectful.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Obviously it’s going to be a niche consumer product when it’s mere existence is scrubbed from the popular consciousness by the powers that be, and therein lies the problem that projects like Star Wars Legacy seek to resolve. Most people aren’t deciding not to watch a Star Wars without prosthetic CGI addenda and superior color/picture quality, because they’re not even aware of the option.

Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77

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You’re really misunderstanding me Broom Kid. I was never insinuating that Fox had a say in what version was released. Only that they, being the distributors, would get a large percentage of any profits made from ANY home video release.

A high quality re-release of the OUT would show a spike in purchases from collectors and general public who would not otherwise buy another release of these films.

Disney’s unwillingness to release them I am sure was at least in part due to sharing profits. Note how the first thing they did with Star Wars upon their acquisition of Fox was put out new fancy Blu-Rays of the films under Walt Disney Home Video.

I’m not saying they’re definitely planning a release now, but if they wanted to at all, now is the opportune time to consider it, as they’d get all profits from said release.

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IMO, the OOT has been out of circulation for all but the most devoted fans for over twenty years now. On the home video front, it’s skipped three generations of video tech, not including streaming services, where it’s also unavailable. Even old-time fans, unless they’re holding onto a VCR or a Laserdisc player, probably don’t watch it anymore – it’s only an even smaller subset that have ever viewed our preservations (I suppose there’s also the GOUT, but I don’t think that abomination set the world on fire either). And it’s not just missing, it’s been substituted with another product that some certainly think is close enough – so there’s often little sense of a gap that needs to be filled. If it ever did come back, it would be a niche product. Its clear superiority does not guarantee it will overcome decades of sentimental attachment to the only version of the films most of a generation has ever known.

For this reason, I disagree it would be like printing money for Disney. A proper restoration costs a lot, and they’d be getting stiff market competition from their own products. Furthermore, Lucas still expresses a strong desire that the OOT be suppressed, he’s widely regarded as the creator of the OOT, and studios tend to defer to the creator’s wishes for already-successful properties, even if they’re stupid wishes, and when they’re under no contractual obligation to do so. Lucas not being at the helm doesn’t mean he has no influence on the question of the OOT.

So basically IMO we’re waiting for copyright expiration and a public domain release when it comes to the OOT. A couple screenshots in a book is not a sign of the wall crumbling.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Darth Lucas said:

You’re really misunderstanding me Broom Kid. I was never insinuating that Fox had a say in what version was released. Only that they, being the distributors, would get a large percentage of any profits made from ANY home video release.

No, I understood you on that point. I’m saying that’s incorrect. Fox doesn’t (or didn’t) get a large percentage of profits from their distribution deal. Yes, they got some of the money. But they didn’t get most of it. I BELIEVE they got less than a quarter of it? Might be even closer to 15%, I think. But I’m not remembering where I heard that now.

But when Lucas had Fox over a barrel while negotiating the Prequel Trilogy distribution rights, I think he not only got ownership rights back, but a very, very good profit split on re-releases and home video releases.

Also, the most recent release of the blu-rays (the first post Fox acquisition) is a stock-clearing exercise of old Fox product. The Fancy new product is rumored to hit NEXT year - and that’s the set that I am, for the first time in a long time, letting myself hope for the originals as a bonus feature.

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CatBus said:

IMO, the OOT has been out of circulation for all but the most devoted fans for over twenty years now. On the home video front, it’s skipped three generations of video tech, not including streaming services, where it’s also unavailable. Even old-time fans, unless they’re holding onto a VCR or a Laserdisc player, probably don’t watch it anymore – it’s only an even smaller subset that have ever viewed our preservations (I suppose there’s also the GOUT, but I don’t think that abomination set the world on fire either). And it’s not just missing, it’s been substituted with another product that some certainly think is close enough – so there’s often little sense of a gap that needs to be filled. If it ever did come back, it would be a niche product. Its clear superiority does not guarantee it will overcome decades of sentimental attachment to the only version of the films most of a generation has ever known.

For this reason, I disagree it would be like printing money for Disney. A proper restoration costs a lot, and they’d be getting stiff market competition from their own products. Furthermore, Lucas still expresses a strong desire that the OOT be suppressed, he’s widely regarded as the creator of the OOT, and studios tend to defer to the creator’s wishes for already-successful properties, even if they’re stupid wishes, and when they’re under no contractual obligation to do so. Lucas not being at the helm doesn’t mean he has no influence on the question of the OOT.

So basically IMO we’re waiting for copyright expiration and a public domain release when it comes to the OOT. A couple screenshots in a book is not a sign of the wall crumbling.

I agree. I think the best we can probably hope for, is a far superior SE release in 4K HDR, that can serve as a basis for future fan preservations.

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DrDre said:

CatBus said:

IMO, the OOT has been out of circulation for all but the most devoted fans for over twenty years now. On the home video front, it’s skipped three generations of video tech, not including streaming services, where it’s also unavailable. Even old-time fans, unless they’re holding onto a VCR or a Laserdisc player, probably don’t watch it anymore – it’s only an even smaller subset that have ever viewed our preservations (I suppose there’s also the GOUT, but I don’t think that abomination set the world on fire either). And it’s not just missing, it’s been substituted with another product that some certainly think is close enough – so there’s often little sense of a gap that needs to be filled. If it ever did come back, it would be a niche product. Its clear superiority does not guarantee it will overcome decades of sentimental attachment to the only version of the films most of a generation has ever known.

For this reason, I disagree it would be like printing money for Disney. A proper restoration costs a lot, and they’d be getting stiff market competition from their own products. Furthermore, Lucas still expresses a strong desire that the OOT be suppressed, he’s widely regarded as the creator of the OOT, and studios tend to defer to the creator’s wishes for already-successful properties, even if they’re stupid wishes, and when they’re under no contractual obligation to do so. Lucas not being at the helm doesn’t mean he has no influence on the question of the OOT.

So basically IMO we’re waiting for copyright expiration and a public domain release when it comes to the OOT. A couple screenshots in a book is not a sign of the wall crumbling.

I agree. I think the best we can probably hope for, is a far superior SE release in 4K HDR, that can serve as a basis for future fan preservations.

I’d be happy with a far superior SE release in 1080p, but I’d accept that 4K HDR gravy 😉 I believe that’s where the whole Reliance business will end up at, and that’s as optimistic as I get on this front.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

DrDre said:

CatBus said:

IMO, the OOT has been out of circulation for all but the most devoted fans for over twenty years now. On the home video front, it’s skipped three generations of video tech, not including streaming services, where it’s also unavailable. Even old-time fans, unless they’re holding onto a VCR or a Laserdisc player, probably don’t watch it anymore – it’s only an even smaller subset that have ever viewed our preservations (I suppose there’s also the GOUT, but I don’t think that abomination set the world on fire either). And it’s not just missing, it’s been substituted with another product that some certainly think is close enough – so there’s often little sense of a gap that needs to be filled. If it ever did come back, it would be a niche product. Its clear superiority does not guarantee it will overcome decades of sentimental attachment to the only version of the films most of a generation has ever known.

For this reason, I disagree it would be like printing money for Disney. A proper restoration costs a lot, and they’d be getting stiff market competition from their own products. Furthermore, Lucas still expresses a strong desire that the OOT be suppressed, he’s widely regarded as the creator of the OOT, and studios tend to defer to the creator’s wishes for already-successful properties, even if they’re stupid wishes, and when they’re under no contractual obligation to do so. Lucas not being at the helm doesn’t mean he has no influence on the question of the OOT.

So basically IMO we’re waiting for copyright expiration and a public domain release when it comes to the OOT. A couple screenshots in a book is not a sign of the wall crumbling.

I agree. I think the best we can probably hope for, is a far superior SE release in 4K HDR, that can serve as a basis for future fan preservations.

I’d be happy with a far superior SE release in 1080p, but I’d accept that 4K HDR gravy 😉 I believe that’s where the whole Reliance business will end up at, and that’s as optimistic as I get on this front.

To be clear, I didn’t have any advance notice of this. It just worked out this way two days later.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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I still have my faintest of faint “recreated Original Versions as a bonus feature on the box set” hopes holding on.

Essentially - a Disney-created “despecialized edition.”

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Broom Kid said:

I still have my faintest of faint “recreated Original Versions as a bonus feature on the box set” hopes holding on.

Essentially - a Disney-created “despecialized edition.”

To me that’s about the only way the boxset would become a “must buy” for anyone. If there’s nothing exclusive, like the theatrical versions, then most people will be fine just having them to stream on D+.

This way, they can use 4K Star Wars to drive up D+ membership, and still have something left to help sell the boxset next year.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

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schorman13 said:

Broom Kid said:

I still have my faintest of faint “recreated Original Versions as a bonus feature on the box set” hopes holding on.

Essentially - a Disney-created “despecialized edition.”

To me that’s about the only way the boxset would become a “must buy” for anyone. If there’s nothing exclusive, like the theatrical versions, then most people will be fine just having them to stream on D+.

This way, they can use 4K Star Wars to drive up D+ membership, and still have something left to help sell the boxset next year.

Yup. That is the best case scenario at this point.

a trolling bantha

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Considering both blu-ray and 4K UHD are formats that are essentially “collectors only” purchases at this point (kind of like a better, more idealized Laser Disc really) I think that best case scenario is worth holding onto at least a tiny measure of hope? I’m sure it’ll get crushed by this time next year, haha. But the only people really buying physical media anymore are collectors and/or people who care that the image quality is as good as it can be. And both of those audience bases are really small compared to the general audience who has no problem w/ streaming quality, so you’ve gotta provide something a little extra to make that purchase seem “necessary.”

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Broom Kid said:

Considering both blu-ray and 4K UHD are formats that are essentially “collectors only” purchases at this point (kind of like a better, more idealized Laser Disc really) I think that best case scenario is worth holding onto at least a tiny measure of hope? I’m sure it’ll get crushed by this time next year, haha. But the only people really buying physical media anymore are collectors and/or people who care that the image quality is as good as it can be. And both of those audience bases are really small compared to the general audience who has no problem w/ streaming quality, so you’ve gotta provide something a little extra to make that purchase seem “necessary.”

It really sucks that most people either don’t see or don’t care about the difference between blu ray video quality and a lower bitrate stream. When I stream movies and I see blocking, it takes me right out.

Fewer physical releases also means we are at the mercy of the streaming services, only able to watch what they deem “popular enough” to carry.

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pleasehello said:

It really sucks that most people either don’t see or don’t care about the difference between blu ray video quality and a lower bitrate stream. When I stream movies and I see blocking, it takes me right out.

Fewer physical releases also means we are at the mercy of the streaming services, only able to watch what they deem “popular enough” to carry.

The thing that gets me is the banding. UGH I hate banding so much. People must not see it, or think it’s a creative choice? I don’t get it. But sunrises shouldn’t come up on screen looking like an area rug, right?

For a second I thought maybe people would start to lobby hard for some real changes in compression and picture quality after it felt like the entire world got all pissed off at HBO for their terrible compression ruining that one dark episode of Game of Thrones. But that was dumb of me, haha.

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schorman13 said:

Broom Kid said:

I still have my faintest of faint “recreated Original Versions as a bonus feature on the box set” hopes holding on.

Essentially - a Disney-created “despecialized edition.”

To me that’s about the only way the boxset would become a “must buy” for anyone. If there’s nothing exclusive, like the theatrical versions, then most people will be fine just having them to stream on D+.

This way, they can use 4K Star Wars to drive up D+ membership, and still have something left to help sell the boxset next year.

To me it feels inevitable, the only question is how comprehensive they get.

For example, do they include the ‘97 SE as well? What about the theatrical prequels and the 120 minute imax cut of AotC? Do the earlier versions get relegated to only 1080p sdr on disc while Maclunkey gets to shine in 4k HDR?

But yeah, considering there’s going to be a huge overlap between D+ subscribers and those who were planning on buying the 4k discs, I don’t know how Disney plans on selling them in big numbers without including something “truly special.”

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I wish I would have accepted Mike’s offer to view a private screening of this. ☹

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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Fang Zei said:
What about the theatrical prequels and the 120 minute imax cut of AotC?

That AOTC IMAX cut (Burtt edited it himself, correct?) is like the holy grail. Many have tried to replicate it, so far as I can tell none have figured out how to get it exactly right. I’d love to see it again - I only saw it the once, almost 20 years ago now, and would love to check it out again.

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Broom Kid said:

Fang Zei said:
What about the theatrical prequels and the 120 minute imax cut of AotC?

That AOTC IMAX cut (Burtt edited it himself, correct?) is like the holy grail. Many have tried to replicate it, so far as I can tell none have figured out how to get it exactly right. I’d love to see it again - I only saw it the once, almost 20 years ago now, and would love to check it out again.

I imagine it will probably be lost to history. Even if the digital imax master from before they printed it out to 70mm still exists somewhere, it may never see the light of day.

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Broom Kid said:

Fang Zei said:
What about the theatrical prequels and the 120 minute imax cut of AotC?

That AOTC IMAX cut (Burtt edited it himself, correct?) is like the holy grail. Many have tried to replicate it, so far as I can tell none have figured out how to get it exactly right. I’d love to see it again - I only saw it the once, almost 20 years ago now, and would love to check it out again.

Oh, would love to see that cut again too.