http://www.craigbe.com/movieblog/2005/04/original_1977_s.html
Maybe the most important quote is at the end: "One of Mr. Lucas's particular achievements is the manner in which he is able to recall the tackiness of the old comic strips and serials he loves without making a movie that is, itself, tacky."
He was not able to achieve this in the prequels.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
theprequelsrule said:
He was not able to achieve this in the prequels.
To each his own.
Alexrd said:
theprequelsrule said:
He was not able to achieve this in the prequels.
To each his own.
Indeed sir, indeed.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
Alexrd said:
theprequelsrule said:
He was not able to achieve this in the prequels.
To each his own.
The prequels weren't as much tacky (save for some cases of childish humor or sappiness) as they were artificial and boring.
The dialogues at their worst weren't campy and naive, they were fake and dreadful.
twooffour said:
Alexrd said:
theprequelsrule said:
He was not able to achieve this in the prequels.
To each his own.
The prequels weren't as much tacky (save for some cases of childish humor or sappiness) as they were artificial and boring.
The dialogues at their worst weren't campy and naive, they were fake and dreadful.
Um, the Gungans? The cheesy vehicle designs? "Hit the nose!"
The "buzz droids"? The Gungans? "Super-ninja Yoda"? I though there was plenty of tackiness in the prequels. And when there wasn't, yes, it was artificial and boring.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
Well, in the context of the critic's quote, I believe he was referring to stuff like the Flash Gordon serials, which weren't "tacky" in terms of stupid droid antics, but rather cheesy the naive dialogues, campy costumes etc. - which I think the prequels managed to avoid for the most part.
I guess you could call the prequels "tacky" for the gadget gags, the embarassing love dialogue etc., just not in the same way as in the quote above, I think.
The two headed pod announcer and the Munch Bunch Sweetcorn guy in the non-starting pod weren't just fake they were infantile.
That's for sure :D
It's interesting to note that I watched the film in theatre when I was 9, and the announcer actually annoyed me while Jar Jar didn't ;)
From "topic" to "I still hate the prequals" in less than one post.
That has to be a new record, even for us.
Unless, to be fair, "I hate the prequals" WAS the real topic, and the thread title was a clever ruse.
TheBoost said:
From "topic" to "I still hate the prequals" in less than one post.
That has to be a new record, even for us.
Unless, to be fair, "I hate the prequals" WAS the real topic, and the thread title was a clever ruse.
No ruse, but it is how my mind works when thinking about Star Wars. Unfortunately. I cannot think about how good the originals were without thinking of the prequels and how much they disappointed me.
I just find it fascinating the way the originals seemed to hit the mark in so many areas (themes, special effects, audio, narrative drive etc. etc. etc. etc.) and then the prequels failed to do so. In 1999 I would have at least said the special effects were great, but as it turns out they have not stood the test of time.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
Bingowings said:
The two headed pod announcer and the Munch Bunch Sweetcorn guy in the non-starting pod weren't just fake they were infantile.
Ugh. Did you have to remind me of them!
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
He made a film which was very much inspired by Alex Raymond comics, and AL Williamson EC comics work.
Its no coincidence it became one of Al's favorite films, sadly Al passed away.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
skyjedi2005 said:
He made a film which was very much inspired by Alex Raymond comics, and AL Williamson EC comics work.
Its no coincidence it became one of Al's favorite films, sadly Al passed away.
Interesting. Tell me more.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
Lucas also liked the Famous Funnies covers done by Frazetta, the Buck Rogers covers. He wanted to use some of his favorite fantasies of his youth in a way that was not silly.
Make a B movie in an with an A movie budget and create a believable secondary world or universe.
Yeah he liked larry buster crabbes Flash Gordon serials, but if he really wanted to recreate that sillyness star wars would have not even broke even.
He expected it to do no better or worse than planet of the apes, but hoped it would not bomb like 2001 and take a long time to recoup costs and investment.
He used the trappings of fairy tale and space fantasy synthesized with a mythic/heroic structure.
The prequels have a harder time i think because you don't have the typical heroes journey or likeable everyman character. He was telling an antihero story, the story of the tragic hero is bitter and dark, but he through in childess nonsense and the turn to the darkside made no logical sense.
I think Peter Jackson was right when he said the audience identifies with Luke because they are Luke, the main hero is the alter ego of the viewer much like frodo or samwise is in the lord of the rings films.
I certainly did not identify or like Hayden version of Anakin Skywalker, though i found Jake LLoyds anakin to be annoying at least his childlike character was identifiable and realistic. The brooding whiny emo teen i never was so i don't get that character at all.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
TheBoost said:
From "topic" to "I still hate the prequals" in less than one post.
That has to be a new record, even for us.
Unless, to be fair, "I hate the prequals" WAS the real topic, and the thread title was a clever ruse.
My thoughts exactly. It's sad...
skyjedi2005 said:
Lucas also liked the Famous Funnies covers done by Frazetta, the Buck Rogers covers. He wanted to use some of his favorite fantasies of his youth in a way that was not silly.
Make a be movie in an with an A movie budget and create a believable secondary world or universe.
Yeah he liked larry buster crabbes Flash Gordon serials, but if he really wanted to recreate that sillyness star wars would have not even broke even.
He expected it to do no better or worse than planet of the apes, but hoped it would not bomb like 2001 and take a long time to recoup costs and investment.
From what you wrote it looks like the prequels turned out like he was afraid the original would. Yet he praises the prequels! Maddening.
“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord
Well like Marquand said you either go for farce or play the material straight.
He compared how the material in star wars was done in a way respectful to the material unlike his comparison to the 1980's flash gordon which was purposely done to be campy and not to be taken seriously.
Like you can make a film for children that adults can enjoy and not talk down to them or insult their intelligence or you can make a film for children that is childish and insults children and condescends.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
Just to throw in my few cents here, I don't think II or III were made for children no matter how many people claim that.
I think II mainly pandered to teens (what "kid" would sit through the Anakin/Padme scenes, PLEASE), and III attempted to be a dark drama for all ages, probably the older ones (and it was, just with lots and lots of weak points and failures).
The darkness in the OT I can take as fitting into the "for children" concept, as it was basically a magical, escapist fairytale where the hero had to step into the "dragon's lair" a couple times.
The PT, especially the latter two movies, however is chock-full of political allegories and attempts to be some kind of Shakespearean tragedy.
Actually Lucas was doing a synthesis retelling of both faust and paradise lost and failed on both points.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
Also cribbed a bit from Romeo&Julia and Othello. The latter one was particularly obvious when, all of a sudden, he started getting jealous of Obi-Wan even though no relationship between him and Padme had been established.
Not that angry psychos don't get jealous easily... but still.
Elsa in Lohengrin dies of a broken heart, as well as Isolde in... that one, but that's probably just a trope.
At the same time, there is definitely an effort to be eccentric and campy, with Grievous, Darthham Sidious, the Neimoidians etc. - it doesn't even disturb me (ROTJ had the Emperor and Jabba - there's no reason you can't have a campy robot henchman as a side plot), but the drama was done, so, badly.
I have said this many times but in fairness to Lucas, did anyone expect the PT to be as good as the OT? The key to any movie (IMO) is characters, if you don't have great characters, and don't care about the characters, then everything else doesn't work.
I remember telling my friends (who were juiced for the PT) in the spring of 99, that the PT wouldn't be as good as the OT because I don't think Lucas is going to be able to create another round of lovable characters. The OT cast is magical and like most great movies it is lightning in a bottle that cant be duplicated. Han, Luke, Leia, Chewy, Obiwan, R2, C3PO, and Vader, those characters are iconic, and fans cared about them. For great characters to succeed you have to have chemistry, you have to have to hire the right actor for that role, there is ALOT of luck involved.
Now you're asking Lucas to create another trilogy with iconic characters that equal the OT characters? It was never going to happen, because if it did then more sequels were be great.
I more amazed that ESB is a classic then the PT not living up to the OT (IMO), because the odds of making a great sequel/prequel that equals its original are very rare.
[OT] is this originaltrilogy.com or a prequel tastemaker site?! [/OT]
the prequels definitely have tacky moments, too many to mention.
CO said:
I have said this many times but in fairness to Lucas, did anyone expect the PT to be as good as the OT?
Well, I was only eleven when TPM was coming out in theatres, and I was pretty naive ...
TheBoost said:
From "topic" to "I still hate the prequals" in less than one post.
That has to be a new record, even for us.
Unless, to be fair, "I hate the prequals" WAS the real topic, and the thread title was a clever ruse.
I think the top General thread right now is something to the effect of "why everyone who likes the prequels is wrong."
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/From-what-i-have-seen-one-way-Tfn-ers-excuse-how-bad-the-prequels-are/topic/13105/
I don't think you can get much more direct than that.
"George, we hate you for making more Star Wars movies. Please make more Star Wars movies."
-The Internet
Consider who posted it.