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Star Wars on RCA CED Format

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Found this on ebay tonight Star Wars CED Collectionand was wondering:

1) What print are this ?
2) Does Star Wars have the NONE IV craw.
3) What audio would they be Mono or Stereo or a 70mm or 35mm mixdown.
4) Is Ep V and VI in there original movie format ?

I would love to get this be cool to see how they look but I would not know the frist place to start in playing them.......

Also I have read that STAR WARS has the a clip thats missing the shot were Luke missing tossing the rope and does it again.....be interesting to see if this is true or not....
Just mt 2 cents I aways wanted to ask.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/THX1138/Star%20Wars/CED/b5_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/THX1138/Star%20Wars/CED/c2_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/THX1138/Star%20Wars/CED/b6_1.jpg
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I'd say I can pretty much guarantee that Star Wars has the Episode IV crawl, since all home video releases of the movie (until this year's) did have it.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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1) According to davisdvd, it's a pan and scan release time compressed to fit onto the disc.
2) It has the Ep IV subtitle.
3)35mm mix
4)Why wouldn't they be?
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Originally posted by: StarWarsFan1976
Also I have read that STAR WARS has the a clip thats missing the shot were Luke missing tossing the rope and does it again.....be interesting to see if this is true or not...

*sigh*

Doesn't. Exist.

Period.

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

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Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
Originally posted by: StarWarsFan1976
Also I have read that STAR WARS has the a clip thats missing the shot were Luke missing tossing the rope and does it again.....be interesting to see if this is true or not...

*sigh*

Doesn't. Exist.

Period.


I'm going to stick with my original statement.
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The Star Wars CED is identical to the 1982 and 1983 laserdiscs--which differ only in panning and scanning to the VHS and subsequent laserdisc counterparts. There is no missing or additional footage. Claims such as Luke throwing the grappling hook twice are nothing but myths with absolutely no validity.

The Starkiller's Guide to the Mono Sound Mix

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I owned all of those back in the early 80's(just looking at those pictures I can recall the unique plastic smell of those sleeves), and I can assure you that Star Wars does not contain any extra footage.

And as others have stated, the rumored Luke throwing the rope twice scene has never been included in any commercially released version.
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I used to have the CED Star Wars and from what I remember of it, you're not missing much if you don't have them. I'll be surprised if you can view the discs in their entirety without the discs skipping like old vinyl LPs would. That's pretty much what killed off CED. Also I believe that TESB disc would be the time compressed version which they did with the early videodisc releases to fit the movie on one disc (EDIT: Like Spock said ).
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has anyone ever converted or digitized these?

would be interesting to see.

later
-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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I believe TheStarkiller already did a transfer but only star wars.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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 (Edited)

from another thread : http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/query-converting-RF-to-RCA-video-audio-signals/post/331633/#post331633

 

well,

been doing a lot of captures:

========================

ep 4 star wars- 95% done

ep 5 the empire strikes back- 95%  done

ep 6 return of the jedi- 95% done

 

heres a sample of images from 'star wars'

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2384/swced01sak4.jpg 

there is a speedup issue to make the movies fit on the discs:'

2.54% for star wars, 3.33% for the empire strikes back, and 1.51% for return of the jedi,

not quite pal speedup, but noticeable..

--------------------------------------------------

i would like 3 versions of each - 1) raw uncut footage 2) 'fixed' footage with all the missing

gaps/glitches fixed 3) time corrected version with correct audio

 

lets see how it goes..

 

here's a 7 minute preview of episode 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBtPDAbAkPE note the opening and crawl have the dropouts every so often..

the second scene with the ship members smuggling themselves is much much better.

 

later

-1

 

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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I thought Jedi wasn't sped up, since it spans 2 discs.

I could be wrong, I haven't watched them on CED in about 15 years.

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Bobocop said:

I thought Jedi wasn't sped up, since it spans 2 discs.

I could be wrong, I haven't watched them on CED in about 15 years.

 

 you would think so? right...

 

but nope, since they probably used the same master for the laserdisc

(which was sped up).... this version is sped up too..

 

i'd post a sample, but i had a hard disk crash, and i'm in the middle

of recovering the files..

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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ReverendBeastly said:

Originally posted by: StarWarsFan1976
Also I have read that STAR WARS has the a clip thats missing the shot were Luke missing tossing the rope and does it again.....be interesting to see if this is true or not...

*sigh*

Doesn't. Exist.

Period.

And yet I saw it on release day at the Stanley Warner, Paramus, NJ!

Anyway glad to see that at least someone else has it at least heard of it.

There has got ot be someone else out there who also saw it there who can back me up.

 

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The Starkiller said:

The Star Wars CED is identical to the 1982 and 1983 laserdiscs--which differ only in panning and scanning to the VHS and subsequent laserdisc counterparts. There is no missing or additional footage. Claims such as Luke throwing the grappling hook twice are nothing but myths with absolutely no validity.

not a myth

were you there opening day, Paramus, NJ??

And since other people are now claiming to have seen it too, wouldn't it be pretty bizarre for people to have day dreamed up some a random thing?

It extended the length of the scene a bit too and built up a lot more tension as the racheting up of the blast door was prolonged. I've been mentioning this for years upon years and tired of everyone always saying I made it up. As soon as I got a modem, I mentioned it way back in the BBS days, maybe only 12 years after SW had been released and I have notes I wrote about it from way, way earlier than that.

 

 

 

 

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Had the CED, grew up with it, never had the missed shot.

As someone points out in another thread where this was mentioned, there is no music that fits into an extended "rope miss". If John Williams didn't score for it, it never made it to post-production, and it never made it to theaters.

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What do you mean there's no music that matches? The music in place already matches perfectly, I find it hilarious that a dramatic cue would be playing to Luke just standing around extending his wire for a while.

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BmB said:


What do you mean there's no music that matches? The music in place already matches perfectly, I find it hilarious that a dramatic cue would be playing to Luke just standing around extending his wire for a while.
The constant music that runs during the scene has enough time to fit a miss, retraction, and rethrow that no one has ever actually seen evidence to?

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Of course that would take time out of him extending his wire, but that's pretty hilaribad to watch anyway.

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I believe that starkiller was commenting that Lukes first missed

throw never made it to any commercially available copy of the film.

It was visible ONLY in the theaters in '77 (and '78).

 

If people want some validation of this, listen to the current AOTC

DVD release (with audio commentary ON), and skip to the chapter

when Anakin and Padme are approaching the Droid Factory...

 

Ben Burtt (sound editor) speaks about them (the writing team) having

the initial notion of having Anakin and Padme have to do a similar

grappling-hook-swing in the factory. Burtt also comments that in ANH

Luke does initially miss, and Leia give him a wry look ('Jedi, huh?!)

 

Additionally, back in 79, when SW:ANH was re-released into theaters

again (with the "A NEW HOPE" title), Lucas was on one of the national

talk shows, (Merv Griffin, or Dick Cavitt, or some such), and the host

commented about the changes Lucas made to the film - and specifically

mentioned the first missed grappling hook throw having been cut out.

Lucas replied that some of the comic elements that detracted from the

excitement of the moment were removed ("Close the Blast Doors"). And

about the first throw being removed, Lucas's exact words were "Heroes

dont miss.".

 

Many of us older fans specifically remember the first missed throw.

including everyone in my family. I still remember the visual of it, as it

bounced distinctly below and left of the pipe it catches on in throw #2.

 

It was there. Too many of us old farts saw it.

 

- Clone_Wolf.

p.s., I was 16 at the time, I had a paper route, and I paid to see SW

23 times that summer and fall. I didnt read the book (or magazines

or comicbooks) beforehand (or afterwards) that would otherwise

jade my memory on this.

 

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 (Edited)

I'm sorry clone_wolf, but you are completely wrong with it being in there only in the theatrical release prior to ANH being added. It wasn't and there is physical proof with the 1977 bootleg of star wars. You also need to listen to the commentary again because NOWHERE does Burtt mention that in ANH luke initially misses. here's what Burrt says:

We had at one time a scene where Obi-Wan and Padme fire a wire across an abyss and swing across together. It very much recalls the fun of the first Star Wars. And they were quite charming in the scene, 'cause she had to hang onto him. He had trouble getting the cable across. It kinda bounces off the first time and he has to reel it in and shoot a second time and she's kinda like, you know, "Jedi, huh?"

He's talking about the Obi-Wan/Padme scene and NOT the original star wars scene with Luke and Leia.

I'm also one of the "old farts" that saw it countless times in 1977 and that scene was never in there. At 10 years old i saw it so many times that i could recite the script word for word. I was also given a bootleg VHS the following year and there was nothing different in the chasm scene. The only differences were the lines of dialogue between the monomix and the stereo mix, and these differences were in there in 1977 and not changed when they added the A New Hope title.

There is also proof with the musical score. There is no section that this could be placed

And if that interview ever existed with Lucas admitting that scene was originally in the film on such a national talk show then some proof of this would have emerged by now, but it hasn't.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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 (Edited)

clone_Wolf said:

I believe that starkiller was commenting that Lukes first missed

throw never made it to any commercially available copy of the film.

It was visible ONLY in the theaters in '77 (and '78).

 

If people want some validation of this, listen to the current AOTC

DVD release (with audio commentary ON), and skip to the chapter

when Anakin and Padme are approaching the Droid Factory...

 

Ben Burtt (sound editor) speaks about them (the writing team) having

the initial notion of having Anakin and Padme have to do a similar

grappling-hook-swing in the factory. Burtt also comments that in ANH

Luke does initially miss, and Leia give him a wry look ('Jedi, huh?!)

 

Additionally, back in 79, when SW:ANH was re-released into theaters

again (with the "A NEW HOPE" title), Lucas was on one of the national

talk shows, (Merv Griffin, or Dick Cavitt, or some such), and the host

commented about the changes Lucas made to the film - and specifically

mentioned the first missed grappling hook throw having been cut out.

Lucas replied that some of the comic elements that detracted from the

excitement of the moment were removed ("Close the Blast Doors"). And

about the first throw being removed, Lucas's exact words were "Heroes

dont miss.".

 

Many of us older fans specifically remember the first missed throw.

including everyone in my family. I still remember the visual of it, as it

bounced distinctly below and left of the pipe it catches on in throw #2.

 

It was there. Too many of us old farts saw it.

 

- Clone_Wolf.

p.s., I was 16 at the time, I had a paper route, and I paid to see SW

23 times that summer and fall. I didnt read the book (or magazines

or comicbooks) beforehand (or afterwards) that would otherwise

jade my memory on this.

 

clone_Wolf = negative1* sock?

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I know what I saw, and I saw the missed throw. I saw (maybe) the

very same print over and over again at the same theater back in 77.

(@Tampa Bay Mall Cinemas, on Busch Blvd, Tampa, FL)

 

Im not saying that YOU are wrong, btw. I only know what I saw.

And I certainly believe that back in the olden days (77...), films were

spliced from many different sources before being sent out for copying,

for release to theaters. In fact, I kind of believe that I *didnt* see

STAR WARS during the first week it was released, because my family

was on a summer vacation right after school let out. So maybe, just

maybe, Fox was scrambling to cobble together more prints after the

first feedback came back, and they grabbed a snipped of film which

*did* include a first throw. I dunno. But I *do* know I saw it. And

so do many like me who are old enough to have seen it in 77.

 

About the interview with Donohue or whoever... I also know I saw

this, because it explained why the movie I had visually memorized had

changed, And I remember telling my friends (all of us sci fi geeks) what

Lucas had done (after seeing the interview), because many of my friends

had also noticed and commented about other differences too.

 

Additionally, I *do* believe that not every TV show (daily talk

shows more especially perhaps) has been archived like everything else

is today. Remember, this was all even before VCR tapes were common

in the US. I would love it if this snippet could be found. I was gobbling

up anything and everything STAR WARS related at the time. This movie

changed me.

 

 

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clone_Wolf said:

And I certainly believe that back in the olden days (77...), films were

spliced from many different sources before being sent out for copying,

for release to theaters.

Well, that's just not true.

Here's how it works:

The final locked cut is finished using workprint, and a cut list is made.  The cut list is a text list that has, in feet+frames, every shot in the locked cut, in the order they exist on the original camera reels.  A second list (sometimes this information is included in the same list) has all the same shots in the order they exist in the cut, in feet+frames for each reel of the locked cut, so they know which order to put things in.

The negative cutter then takes the original camera negatives, cuts them up according to the cut list, and reassembles them to match the final locked workprint - this is called "conforming."

Sometimes this was done using A/B reels - in this process, shot 1 is on reel A, while that same portion on reel B is blank leader.  Shot 2 is on reel B, while that same portion on reel A is blank leader.  Any time there is a dissolve, the first shot of the dissolve is on one reel, overlapping the second shot on the other reel - the overlap is where the dissolve will happen.

Reel A is printed onto a third piece of film, then reel B is printed onto the same piece of film.  This is the interpositive (IP), as printing a negative to a new piece of film creates a positive.  Any dissolves are done by programming the machine to turn the light down for the duration of the dissolve on the first shot, and turning the light up for the duration of the dissolve on the second shot.

This method gives you a seamless IP that won't have splice marks of any kind, and was often used for anamorphic films.

HOWEVER, as splice marks are clearly visible on pre-SE transfers of Star Wars, the conform must have been done using a single-reel method.

This method is basically just splicing the negative together to conform to the locked workprint.  Any dissolves have to be optically printed, making a new negative that is two generations away from the original quality (as you have to make an IP first, then an internegative from that - the internegative is what gets spliced in with the rest of the o-neg).  The same thing would have been done for the wipes and any composite effects (lightsabers, bluescreen shots, et cetera).

What does all this have to do with the topic?

Well, the audio mix is done separately, using a copy of the workprint.  This is later married to the IP created during conforming, which creates the master negative that release prints are struck from.

This is where all of this becomes relevant to the topic.

So, if there were prints that somehow had extra shots (like the rumored double-grappling-hook-throw, or the rumored lack of the mouse droid shot), it would completely throw off the sound mix sync, and require that a completely separate conform would have to have been done in order to accomodate these extra shots.

Basically, it's a fuckton of extra work that would cost too much money to bother with.  It's just illogical for there to have been more than one version of the film in 1977 (discounting audio mixes, which all sync to the exact same version of the film).

Even the 1981 re-release with Episode IV added wouldn't require a separate conform - it just requires the first shot to be replaced, which projectionists could easily do.  It doesn't screw up the sync of the sound mix or anything, as the frame count is the same.

Basically, it just makes no sense for there to have been multiple versions of the film on its initial release.  Fox certainly would never have allowed it on such a risky film.

Memory is a funny thing - it cheats, and you shouldn't trust it with something you remember from 33 years ago.

a trolling bantha