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Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game

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So, I just visited tf.n and find news of a new video game:

Star Wars Lethal Alliance

Posted By Dustin on October 24, 2006

The first original Star Wars game built specifically for PSP and DS: Multiplayer modes enhance collaborative gameplay while taking advantage of the unique capabilities of both the PSP™ portable entertainment system and Nintendo DS™. Read on for additional information on this eexciting new title coming soon!

<span class=“Italics”>In the years between Episodes III and IV, Princess Leia proposes a dangerous quest to secure the future of the Rebel Alliance. As the deadly duo Twi’lek Rianna Saren and her security droid, Zeeo, you must infiltrate Imperial-controlled planets, fight legions of evil fiends, <span class=“Bold”>and return with the plans for the most destructive weapon in the galaxy, the Death Star.</span>

Battle through the galaxy as a legendary mercenary team, steal the enemy’s deadliest secret, and triumph over evil in this untold Star Wars™ epic adventure.</span>

Let’s see, first, I think, we had Kyle Katarn responsible for stealing the DS plans (Dark Forces, right?).
Then, we’ve got Bria Tharen involved in the theft. The 2 have been conveniently combined to say Kyle only grabbed <span class=“Italics”>part</span> of the plans OR that Katarn transmitted the plans to Toprawa and Tharen was then responsible for passing them to Leia on the Tantive IV.
And beyond that, I found a number of other names that are listed as “responsible” for stealing/transmitting the plans.

Now, we have yet another person getting some credit for the job.

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If you ignore all the EU crap, Star Wars becomes a whole lot more enjoyable.
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Well, I'm in the process of re-reading the Zahn trilogy, and the backstory for the prequels that was used there was much preferable to what we actually got. I particularly enjoy Mara's line about how Vader lost his right hand as a punishment for letting the Death Star be destroyed.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Let's see, first, I think, we had Kyle Katarn responsible for stealing the DS plans (Dark Forces, right?).
Then, we've got Bria Tharen involved in the theft. The 2 have been conveniently combined to say Kyle only grabbed part of the plans OR that Katarn transmitted the plans to Toprawa and Tharen was then responsible for passing them to Leia on the Tantive IV.


Katarn? Tharen? Who are these people? The Death Star plans were intercepted by listening post Ax-325 in the Cron Drift, thanks to the efforts of brave pilots like Keyan Farlander.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
If you ignore all the EU crap, Star Wars becomes a whole lot more enjoyable.


Agreed though I do enjoy some of it... I consider the PT to be EU as well.

Yes, and I shouldn't even have to explain why. Just watch the OT. The originals, not the SE. Lucas trys to connect the two trilogies but of course the man doesn't know his own story well enough and inconsistancies are too numerous even with actors cut and pasted over the original ones.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Ah man, can someone make a flash animation of Lucas presenting a bladly crafted pop-up-book to some FX guys.

Lucas: "Okay, so for the 30th anniversary, I want these plot points addressed for saga continuity."

FX Guys: "Um... sir, won't that contridict the entire original trilogy?"

Lucas: "Look... I own the fuckin' universe alright! Just make it happen!"
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I think Lucas did an admirable job of making the prequels fit in with the classic trilogy.

I think he did a better job of that than he did at making ESB and ROTJ fit in with ANH.

Say what you want about Qui-Gon taking Obi-Wan on as his padawan, Yoda is still the Jedi Master who instructed Obi-Wan before he became a Padawan.

Nobody had to get around something by saying that truth is a point of view in the prequels.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think Lucas did an admirable job of making the prequels fit in with the classic trilogy.

I think he did a better job of that than he did at making ESB and ROTJ fit in with ANH.


Go-Mer, that statement takes away what little credibility you had left. CGI yoda and puppet yoda work better than puppet yoda and puppet yoda? Padme dying but Leia remembering her? Jedi not becoming one with the force after death? You've got to be shitting me.
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Mark Hammil looked entirely different in ESB and ROTJ than he did in ANH. That's on par with Yoda's appearance change.
http://www.starwars-tw.com/story/character/jedi/luke_skywalker.jpg http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/skywalk1.jpg

Hell for a while I was convinced Gilda Radner came in to do Leia's lines on the ewok bridge in ROTJ.
http://www.telcom.es/~jcastjr/starwars/sister.jpg

Leia didn't remember anything more than images really. Something that could have even come to her through the Force as is shown to happen to force sensitives.

Jedi -do- become one with the Force after death. Dying = becoming one with the force.

I shit you not.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think Lucas did an admirable job of making the prequels fit in with the classic trilogy.

I think he did a better job of that than he did at making ESB and ROTJ fit in with ANH.


Go-Mer, that statement takes away what little credibility you had left. CGI yoda and puppet yoda work better than puppet yoda and puppet yoda? Padme dying but Leia remembering her? Jedi not becoming one with the force after death? You've got to be shitting me.


Just ignore the stupidity.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Star Wars has always been plagued with inconsistencies, and most of them spawn from the simple fact that Episode IV: A New Hope was originally a stand-alone movie.

Only in the OT, those inconsistencies aren't jarring and only introduce questions that allow us to make up our own theories, as per the "What did the PT Need?" topic. In the Prequel Trilogy, it just makes people say "there's no way this can connect to the original trilogy."
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So either the difference in the PT was that there was no way to roll along with the inconcsistencies, or a lot of us just couldn't be bothered to roll along with them.

I for one thought it all connected up rather well. Better than a lot of single movies.
Your focus determines your reality.
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I guess in some ways, they do connect up. Just personally, I can't see the Prequels and the OT being in the same series of movies, no more than I can see the Expanded Universe as anything more than published fanfiction. A large part of this is the inconsistencies, but also the new elements the PT and EU introduce that don't really jive with my idea of Star Wars.
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Okay but there is a big difference between accusing Lucas of contradicting his own idea of what Star Wars is and contradicting what you assumed it was. Certainly we all have a unique point of view, and as such there is no way Lucas could ever hope to match up to the things all of us assumed around the edges, because it's different for everyone.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Mark Hammil looked entirely different in ESB and ROTJ than he did in ANH.
http://www.starwars-tw.com/story/character/jedi/luke_skywalker.jpg http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/skywalk1.jpg
I shit you not.


Your trolling wouldn't seem so obvious if you had used a picture that hadn't been Photoshopped so poorly.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/stonetriple/skywalk1copy.jpg

There are unaltered pictures of him from the second film out on the internet.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/stonetriple/luke_skywalker1.jpg

I shit you not.

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Mark Hamill was in a car accident before ESB filmed.

They even worked it into the plot by having the Wampa maul his face.

No such excuse with Yoda.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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1) Luke looks different before the wampa attack.

2) TPM Yoda will be fixed in the 2007 boxset.

3) I googled those pictures and did not photoshop them.

4) If I was trolling I would have used a picture of Luke from the Holiday Special.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think Lucas did an admirable job of making the prequels fit in with the classic trilogy.

I think he did a better job of that than he did at making ESB and ROTJ fit in with ANH.


Go-Mer, that statement takes away what little credibility you had left. CGI yoda and puppet yoda work better than puppet yoda and puppet yoda? Padme dying but Leia remembering her? Jedi not becoming one with the force after death? You've got to be shitting me.


Instead of yelling at people, you should try to compare views.

The reason why the prequels "attempt" to fit in with the OT is because Lucas crammed so many "bridge" moments in ROTS that are supposed to be segues into ANH. If you didn't have that 20 minute period at the end where all the "pieces are set", if you will, then the prequels would do little to connect to the OT.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Okay but there is a big difference between accusing Lucas of contradicting his own idea of what Star Wars is and contradicting what you assumed it was. Certainly we all have a unique point of view, and as such there is no way Lucas could ever hope to match up to the things all of us assumed around the edges, because it's different for everyone.


That's fine.

But George has done a good enough job of contradicting his "view" of Star Wars without having to put personal interpretation into it. These contradictions existed from day one and came from Lucas' changing ideas about what Star Wars is--from being a stand-alone movie to maybe getting a sequel to being this grand nine-part (and later six part) saga of which the OT was only a small part. Heck, he even had two entirely different ideas for a sequel to the original Star Wars--one got filmed and became Empire Strikes Back, and the other became the novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

In all honesty, most of the contradictions and writing decisions people complain about in the PT were already becoming quite apparent in the OT. A case in point, people complain about how ROTJ, TPM etc. have references to Earth-based things (Tarzan yells, Anakin asking Padme if she's an Angel, etc.) Nevermind the fact that in the very first Star Wars movie, Owen actually uses the line "There'll be Hell to pay," as if people who existed a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away would still abide by Christian beliefs.

That being said, as stand-alone movies I find the PT work well. But in trying to be an explanation/set-up for the OT, they fail. Even though Star Wars has always contradicted itself, by the time the PT came around Lucas' ideas had changed so much that they just couldn't mesh. If a writer writes a story and then comes back and writes more of that story fifteen or twenty years later, he won't be the same person and his ideas won't match up (I speak from experience here) and this shows. In my mind, the biggest offender is the inclusion of R2D2 and C-3PO and how they adventure around with Obi-Wan and Anakin, and yet it's obvious in A New Hope that neither Jedi recognizes either droid--and none of the other people they supposedly have met before (Owen Lars etc.) recognize the droids either. I know all sorts of excuses can be made, but it's bluntly obvious when watching A New Hope that these two droids are entirely new to every major character of the OT, and this inconsistency is hard to jive.

And it's not the only one. The PT has all sorts of high technology which has suddenly disappeared in the OT (I know you could say the Empire has something to do with that, but then why is every planet we see a barren ice/forest/desert planet?), the Jedi are so strong that they're nearly Gods whereas in the OT their powers are more subtle (I have yet to see a really strong arguement for this), and my personal pet peeve is the inclusion of all the new terminology--Padawan, Sith, etc-- and how characters suddenly all have these alien-sounding names like Quigon Jinn (as opposed to the OT where everyone had names like Luke Skywalker). where the hell were these terms in the OT? Why did Yoda never call Luke his "Padawan?" Why wasn't Luke called something like "Manwo Kweesat" or some other strange alien name? These things in my mind make it hard to see the PT as anything except more Expanded Universe, and in my mind the Expanded Universe doesn't mesh with the OT in any way, shape, or form.
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Before we get totally railed for this descrepancy by Go-Mer, let me just point out that Sith has, indeed, been around since the beginning. It was never used in the movies until the prequels (just like the name Palpatine, for example), but the term Sith has been used in Darth Vader character descriptions since before the movie even came out.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Good grief, this guy... good grief.

oh and yeah, a lot of old ideas were re-used for the PT, as is evident in the title of Revenge of the sith which was originally Revenge of the Jedi for the OT but was changed. So we can see where lucas got the idea for that. Also some planets and such were around from the first draft of star wars, I think. Unfortunately his CGI obsession overtook his better judgment and he went crazy with it.

Anyway it won't work no matter how you spin and twist it, the two trilogies will never be one or else Vader might dance over to his old droid pal and reminise over the good ol days when his head was swapped with a battle droid's, oh it was such a drag. Oh don't even get me started on Obi-wan's problems. GL will of course keep trying to force the OT into continuity with the PT though and further degrade the original's quality again and again. Boba and Shaw were only the beginning. It's all moot isn't it with GL constantly changing the movies.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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I'm not going to rail anyone for a matter of artistic preference. While Han and Leia were names I hadn't heard until SW, Luke is a fairly common name. Sometimes people just don't want new stuff. I mean some of us didn't even want new stuff after ANH. I think it just comes down to things we assume outside of the box.

Star Wars movies are built in such a way as to inspire this kind of assumption and creativity in the viewer, and because we are all free to be as creative as we need to be to make sense of some of the things that aren't entirely spelled out in the films themselves, there is a lot of that which will be contradicted as Lucas adds more to "what's what" in the Star Wars universe. Every time he nails something down that contradicts something we assumed, there will be one of two reactions. 1) So I was wrong about that. Interesting. or 2) How dare Lucas not remain consistent to what I had imagined.

Neither reaction is "wrong" or anythying. I just usually choose the former because I can't control what Lucas does, so I made a decision early on to roll along with what he was doing.

Personally I find it more interesting when Lucas surprises me with new things I hadn't considered before.

Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

Every time [Lucas] nails something down that contradicts something we assumed, there will be one of two reactions. 1) So I was wrong about that. Interesting. or 2) How dare Lucas not remain consistent to what I had imagined.

Neither reaction is "wrong" or anythying.


Heh, yeah, that second response sure is a fair representation of most reasoned objections you'll find to George's constant tinkering. I mean, hell, how dare he go with something I haven't imagined before! I can't accept that! [/sarcasm]

Its very clear, Go-Mer, that you think we're very "wrong." Otherwise you wouldn't be that obviously close-minded to our point of view. Drop the pretense.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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It's not a pre-tense. I'ts just to me artistic taste is a point of view, not a universal truth.

I do have a strong preference towards Lucas' taste for these movies. I also understand that it's not going to be for everyone. While I hope to improve people's opinion of what Lucas did, I don't expect to be able to mind trick anyone into it. I'm no Jedi.

I think that there is something admirable about the creativity it takes to disagree with Lucas' artistic choices. I really do respect that about the people who would have done things differently.

Maybe it isn't so much "how dare Lucas contradict what I had assumed" but more of, "I really prefer the way I was looking at it before".

In the end, as much as Obi-Wan's "truths depend greatly on our own point of view" was a ham-fisted way to smooth out Lucas' decision to make Vader Luke's father, it taught me a lot about how much of a difference a perspective can make.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
While I hope to improve people's opinion of what Lucas did, I don't expect to be able to mind trick anyone into it. I'm no Jedi.


Oh deary dear.....Gomer, don't lie. You wouldn't be on here 24/7 glorifying Lucas if you didn't want to "mind-trick" us. You're forcing your opinions down everyones throats on a site called originaltrilogy.com. Don't lie. I'm not going to think any less of you if you just admit it. Of course, I can't think any less of you anyway right now.

And you probably do think you're a Jedi, when you dress up in Jedi pajamas and have a lightsaber fight with yourself before going off to bed with your Jar-Jar doll and poster of Lucas hanging on your ceiling..
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.