Star Wars coming to Blu Ray (UPDATE: August 30 2011, No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!) — Page 4

Baronlando said:

A six movie set released by Fox, it's gonna be expensive. I wonder how many people would consider the lack of OOT a dealbreaker. I wonder if LFL is doing that market research right now.

 Baronlando, as much as I am huge fan of the OOT, I still think if Lucas put out a BluRay Set of the PT & SE only, I think it would sell well.  The way I always looked at the SW OT fanbase, is most fans PREFER the OOT over the SE if they had a choice, but in the same vein, if the SE were the only available version, they would still buy the set.   I know most of my friends (all around 37 years old like me) are that way, they don't like any of Lucas's changes, but they still bought the 2004 DVD's simply because they love the OT movies so much and that truimphs not owning them.  (Cut their nose to spite their face analogy).  I think Lucas knows this, and that is why I honestly don't think the OOT will appear in the first BluRay set. 

I have this funny feeling Lucas is going to stick us with the same laser discs transfers we got on DVD as a bonus. Maybe just to be different he will make sure they are anamorphic?

Sadly I agree with CO. It's gotten to the point where I would boycot the set in favour of the OOT, but I know that I'm an exception here. And even then, I would say there is a decent chance I would break and buy the damn thing anyway. I did with the GOUT.

I'm sure it will be big either way, but the only thing that gives me any hope is this is getting into new territory, isn't it? It'll be the most expensive mainstream piece of merchandise LFL has ever sold, maybe 120 bucks a pop or more. It really doesn't take a lot of holdouts around the world before they start leaving millions of dollars at the table. It's getting into the neighborhood where Lucas actually pays attention, it's the neighborhood that got Jar Jar Binks got demoted from main character status.

Baronlando said:

I'm sure it will be big either way, but the only thing that gives me any hope is this is getting into new territory, isn't it? It'll be the most expensive mainstream piece of merchandise LFL has ever sold, maybe 120 bucks a pop or more. It really doesn't take a lot of holdouts around the world before they start leaving millions of dollars at the table. It's getting into the neighborhood where Lucas actually pays attention, it's the neighborhood that got Jar Jar Binks got demoted from main character status.

 There are definitely fans that will hold out, but I still think that is a huge minority of the fanbase.  Now as I said, that doesn't mean if you buy this set, you endorse the SE, as I believe if Lucas put out a BluRay OOT set and  BluRay SE set with the SAME transfer, the OOT would win hands down.

I can only speak for my friends and family, none of them are passionate enough to boycott the set if the OOT is not included, but they ALL say they prefer the "Han Shoot first' versions. 

Lucas has a monopoly on us with the movies, so unfortunately if many fans feel the OOT will never be released, or if it is released it will be another crappy version, they love the movies too much and will settle for the SE.

I doubt it will be that expensive. It will probably be under $100, probably in the $89 range. They have to make it buyable for kids and parents, one of their main markets. No Blu Ray set is over $100 except the Complete Series mega-sets with 30-disks of content. For $89, people would pay for the OT SE in Blu Ray, plus deleted scenes, new documentaries, everything from the previous set, and the PT included with new PT bonus features. They don't need the OOT. People will be ticked off, they might even actively complain, but they will still buy the thing.

It might not even be a matter of choice. Maybe the LFL people won't be able to topple the immoveable wall of Lucas, and will be forced to exclude it. We'll have to see.

We should really start a letter writing campaign. The set is in the early stages of being developed if its release date of 4th quarter 2011 is correct. They could ready a remastered OOT as late as spring 2011. If we don't act now, the window might pass.

zombie84 said:

I doubt it will be that expensive. It will probably be under $100, probably in the $89 range.

I dunno, it costs 80 bucks just to buy both of those crappy red/blue trilogy boxes at best buy right now.

I don't want to get drawn deeply into a debate about the legality of Fan-Edits (that toss has already been eloquently argued many times before) so this shall be my only post on the subject

To make an edit you have to reproduce the material from an authorised source and to share it you have to distribute it in some manner.

The FBI warning (and many of it's non US equivalents) clearly states that this includes infringement without monetary gain.

There is some debate about the allowance for software back up and how that could be used as a defense but the warning is clearly there every time we pop a film in a player.

This is pretty much besides the point.

When we receive or produce a fan-edit we do so with a degree of trust that both viewer and creator/distributor have paid for the original material at least once to mitigate any loss of revenue to the originator of the material.

When we all registered to post on this organ we also agreed to stick to the rules of this site.

No actual crime is committed by voicing intent to possibly break the law at some point in the future (attempted theft is a crime voicing possible thoughts about it is I think as yet not) and as to the rules of the site that's for a Mod to settle.

It would be remiss to let the subject slide unremarked but I feel enough people have commented to attempt to remedy the situation before a decision is taken either way.

What fan-editors do treads a delicate line and it isn't wise to step over that line if we are to continue to do what we hope we can continue to do.

Just as a reminder, we were never talking about fan edits in this thread.  We were talking about downloading a (hypothetical) retail blu-ray release, which (almost) everyone here agrees is illegal, regardless of your stance on fan edits.

I'm not even sure why we're discussing this.  The forum rule regarding this issue is posted for everyone to see.

I will make it unethical....

opps! 

TV's Frink said:

Just as a reminder, we were never talking about fan edits in this thread.  We were talking about downloading a (hypothetical) retail blu-ray release, which (almost) everyone here agrees is illegal, regardless of your stance on fan edits.

I'm not even sure why we're discussing this.  The forum rule regarding this issue is posted for everyone to see.

I was responding to posts saying that even fan-edits aren't legal.

Illegal downloading of a non-fan edit is clearly...illegal and subject to the same site rules.

Talking about thinking about doing it isn't illegal (as yet) but it's up to a moderator to decide if it's against the site rules.

Baronlando said:

zombie84 said:

I doubt it will be that expensive. It will probably be under $100, probably in the $89 range.

I dunno, it costs 80 bucks just to buy both of those crappy red/blue trilogy boxes at best buy right now.

That's because those are specialty niche titles. Like how Criterion charges $50 for a 2-disk DVD. I paid $90 for a 4-disk Ingmar Bergman set in 2003. The most popular franchise of all time won't cost that much. Blu Ray now is about what DVD was in 2003, so if a Saga boxset came out then I doubt it would have been more than 80 or 90 dollars. Godfather Blu Ray set is about $50, Matrix 4-film set is about $80, so is LOTR Blue-ray, and that's hitting the roof of what people will shell out for. We'll see how the Alien Anthology prices--6 films, at least 13 disks of material, and produced by FOX, comparable to the SW set. I'd be surprised if it was north of $90 though when it starts selling. And by the time the SW set hits, it will likely be 2011, when prices have gone down even more. But whatever. Even if its $120, they won't need the OOT to make it the fastest selling set in the format's history. It's more about PR. But Lucasfilm can afford to have bad PR because it doesn't impact sales, its more about whether the people in charge are comfortable with this.

Bingowings said:

Talking about thinking about doing it isn't illegal (as yet) but it's up to a moderator to decide if it's against the site rules.

Oops, now I see what you were saying Bingo.  You are correct, so I'll just say that in my opinion, it is bad form to talk about thinking about doing it.  And yes, it's up to a mod to decide beyond that.

Here you go:

zombie84 said:

 

... But Lucasfilm can afford to have bad PR because it doesn't impact sales, its more about whether the people in charge are comfortable with this.

 Hello new signature!

I don't think that this is even worth discussing seriously at this stage of the game because *A LOT* can change between now and the release date...Luca$ has shown us all time and time again that he will never do what you think should be done, and what makes sense from a product point of view.  To sum it up for me:

1.  I currently don't own a Blu-ray player, and don't have plans to buy one anytime soon.  My DVDs are good enough for me.

2.  IF (and that is a huge "IF" there) this release is worthwhile, maybe it will be time for me to purchase a player.  How can this release be worthwhile to me?

3.  Tons of extras, the OOT properly restored (no exceptions), etc.  Outside of that, I am not interested at all.   

I didn't buy the '04 release, the GOUT, etc., and I won't be buying this one either if it's not exactly what I want.  I vote w/ my wallet...always have and always will.  Unfortunately for Georgie Boy, I have an excellent memory and have seen these movies so many times now, the PT was such a train wreck overall and with how poorly he has treated the fans over the years, my interest in SW has dropped *considerably*.  So if you don't give me what I want, I don't care enough anymore to even compromise a smidgen and purchase anyway.  Take notes, Luca$, this is what happens to fans/customers when you treat them like crap time and time again. :)

Oh and I really doubt that this will be all 6 movies in one shot, and I get the feeling that he may separate the trilogies again.  But again so much can change between now and then, so who really knows...

zombie84 said:

 It's more about PR. But Lucasfilm can afford to have bad PR because it doesn't impact sales, its more about whether the people in charge are comfortable with this.

On the plus side, I am enjoying all  the bad lucas PR these days.

skyjedi2005 said:

Remember when zombie84 reported on his site that the 2004 versions were only done in a resolution of 1080P.  Not exactly blu ray reference quality. 

 This doesn't cut it for a theatrical release, but it shouldn't make a difference on Blu Ray.

Problem is, Lucas has basically made the Blu Ray resolution the negative, which is downright retarded. Even if he re-scanned the footage in 4k or 8k, all the additions done for the 2004 SE would be in 1080 because they were done on a 1080 negative and you will never change that. I realize the additions are few, but this means that even if they re-scanned the film in 8K for a theatrical showing, the prison cell shootout scene, the binary sunset shots, certain Mos Eisley shots, the Jabba scene, the Greedo shooting scene, certain shots from Ben's duel, the scene where Darth Vader meets the Emperor, the scene of Vader's unmasking, and the shots of the three Jedi ghosts--these will always be 1080 lines of resolution. Plus, every SE enhancement from 1997 will be in 2000 lines of resolution. How much footage does that amount for in ANH? Like 25% of the movie? So unless Lucas completely redoes the SE--which will never happen--the "definitive" version of the movie will always have a quarter of it in 1K/2K, even if being projected at 8K. Which is a little sad. 2K I could handle, because that's sort of the same degradation as optical compositing, but 1080? Ugh. Going to be interesting to see how theatrical screenings hold up.

SilverWook said:

The only way to do that to the non-anamoprphic 1993 masters would be to blow up the letterboxed image, which would only make things worse.

Maybe... but I think the best we can hope for here would be a messy print up-scaled to 1080i... That's right we won't even get 1080p for the OOT because Lucas will want his latest special editions to look better than any other versions. I cannot understand why Lucas competed with himself when he released the GOUT? I mean simply giving us a copy in anamorphic widescreen would have satisfied just about everybody. On top of that a lot of people here would have had renewed faith in George Lucas. It's like George just doesn't want to let this fight go. What is he gaining by sticking it to everybody who grew up on his original creation? I'm starting to think he hates Star Wars and no matter what it will never be good enough.