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Star Wars coming to Blu Ray (UPDATE: August 30 2011, No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!) — Page 312

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The blu-ray release is only a part of his master plan to destroy all that is good.

Lucas has thousand of copies of the original 35mm prints at his house. He watches them every night and thinks about how awesome they are and how he is the only one that will ever get to see them again. He'll demand to be buried with all of them and at that time recall even the SE's and forbid it to be sold on any format for the rest of time.

Then, in true machiavellian form, he will return years later and claim that the movies had never even been made.  He will then proclaim that he is making them for the first time as he originally intended.  He will claim that it will be 9 movies but he will only make 6.  The first 3 will be the adventures of the gungan warrior jar-jar and the last 3 will be totally incoherent at best and people will wander from theatres moaning in agony after viewing them.

The "true fans" will rejoice and proclaim them masterpieces and go around telling everybody how they bought the 400 dollar boxset. When anyone questions them about the myth of the original trilogy from the late 20th century they will deny that they existed and claim that the new ones are all that matter because they are 100% cgi and capable of capturing the attention of 2 and possibly even 3 years olds.

I am not a time traveller but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

EDIT: This is to only be read in the voice of the cybernetic ghost of christmas past from the future. You are welcome.

Luke threw twice…maybe.

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kenkraly2007 said:

I wish some of you would stop calling star wars fans who go to websites like TFN or relbelsum.com Lucas apologists their good sources for star wars news of all of kinds.

FYI, the Rebelscum forums don't seem to be filled with apologists. About a month ago I checked their thread on the Blu-rays, and a lot of people were complaining about the lack of OT theatrical versions.

Wexter said:

About LFL - either they are indeed a bad company consisting of bunch of amateurs or they are fucking liars (lairs, for mentally challenged). These are the only two possible explenations of their (mostly Lucas') claim that the cleaned up original footage has been altered without backing up the original form. Who does that? Someone, who has no clue what they are doing.

I get the impression some people at LFL are not happy with the treatment the OT gets. I can't remember the details, but at one of the recent press events for the Blu-rays, 2 LFL spokesmen implied they preferred the original versions. Remember: most people at LFL probably grew up on the original theatrical versions.

Lucas seems to be a "my way or the highway kind of guy", and the LFL employees know that. And they are just so excited to be working for Lucas, that they dare not endanger that opportunity.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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althor1138 said:

The blu-ray release is only a part of his master plan to destroy all that is good.

Lucas......will return years later and claim that the movies had never even been made.  He will then...make...6...movies,  The first 3 will be the adventures of the gungan warrior jar-jar and the last 3 will be totally incoherent at best and people will wander from theatres moaning in agony after viewing them.

The "true fans" will rejoice and proclaim them masterpieces and deny that the......20th century saga existed....

I am not a time traveller but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

You should lay off the bratwurst before bed then ;)

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Ken, you actually seem like a kind and gentle person, so let me try, just this once, to explain something...

There are many things in this world that I recognize as being wrong that I am not passionate enough about to protest. 

...

If someone came up to me when I was eating a chicken nugget and said "hey, don't you realize you're eating a tortured chicken?", I'd have to say something like "yeah, I know, it's probably wrong, I'm sorry but I don't want to deal with that right now."

...

So much good in this post and I have a fondness for analogies. Also, I had Chicken McNuggets today. The Monopoly contest always draws me in. I share your views on animal treatment vs tasty meat.

I also appreciate that Star Wars preservation ranks above chicken torture in your list of concerns ;)

kenkraly2007 said:

So just  because we support anything GL does where called  Lucas apologists?

I must join the chorus here...YES, that is precisely what makes one an apologist!

The word "apologist" is not inherently negative. It refers to defending a position against all criticism. It usually refers to those who defend religion. It takes on a negative connotation because apologists are immune to any other reasoning or debate. Their role is simply to defend.

And as you admit here, you support anything GL does. That's simply dogmatic and blind to reason. We're not people who dislike Star Wars. We're just honest people who aren't afraid of critiquing poor decisions.

We have no reason to defend or support anything GL does. Only those who wish to maintain an income at LFL do.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Mrebo said:


And as you admit here, you support anything GL does. That's simply dogmatic and blind to reason. We're not people who dislike Star Wars. We're just honest people who aren't afraid of critiquing poor decisions.

We have no reason to defend or support anything GL does. Only those who wish to maintain an income at LFL do.

Why do some of you wine and complain every time GL makes a change to the films? He has a right to change his films sure some of them are not good you can't please everyone. Sure not everyone is not going to like the changes but it the changes don't take away my enjoyment of the films.

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kenkraly2007 said:


...the changes don't take away my enjoyment of the films.
But they DO for us. We understand your point of view. You understand ours. Stop.

We're not saying Lucas can't change his movies. He can. They're his. We're upset because he shouldn't change his movies and leave the Academy Award winning originals to rot. Whatever version of Star Wars that is most current is not the 70's classic, and should not be called the same movie.

We love Star Wars or we wouldn't be here. We don't have to like all of it.

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress / Facebook / Twitter

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress / Twitter

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Kenkraly it would really do you some good to respond to Puggo's post rather than the people agreeing with him in short, less articulate posts.  Also, Puggo actually gave you some CREDIT whereas all the posts you respond to just detract you.  I honestly cannot believe you are a grown person...

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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EDIT: Oops, I seem to be a bit late to the party. This was in response to Ken's post 7780:

Why are you telling us this? The changes do take away my enjoyment of the films. Big time! Why should I care about your enjoyment of the films any more then you care about mine?

And there was an easy way to please everyone who likes STAR WARS. Because all those people who liked STAR WARS before 1997 liked the original versions, an easy way to please all of the would have been not to make any changes. What is so hard to understand about that?

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Puggo writes this... (very well put I must say)

  

 

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Ken, you actually seem like a kind and gentle person, so let me try, just this once, to explain something...

There are many things in this world that I recognize as being wrong that I am not passionate enough about to protest.  For instance, it's wrong how chicken farms treat chickens by stuffing them into tiny cages just so we can have cheap chicken nuggets.  There are people protesting that, and they're right.  But for me personally, there are are only so many hours in the day and I have to pick my priorities, and I have to admit I enjoy eating chicken nuggets.  So if I were to see a group of people protesting about the treatment of chickens, I wouldn't join the protest and I wouldn't stop eating chicken nuggets, but I also wouldn't fight against the protesters either because I know that what they are asking for has merit.  If someone came up to me when I was eating a chicken nugget and said "hey, don't you realize you're eating a tortured chicken?", I'd have to say something like "yeah, I know, it's probably wrong, I'm sorry but I don't want to deal with that right now."  What I WOULDN'T do is try to convince the person that the treatment of chickens is OK, just because I like chicken nuggets, and start up a facebook page about how stupid the protesters were, just so I could feel better about my own decision to eat chicken nuggets.

I suspect you kinda fall into that camp.  You too would like to see the OOT restored/preserved, but you enjoy the SEs and so it's just not a fight you're passionate about joining.  That's totally fine!  But where we have trouble with you, is that you try and convince us to stop fighting for it, and you tell others how stupid we are to fight for it. That's what I don't understand about the Lucas apologists.  We really are on the same side as you... we love Star Wars and we want everyone to be able to enjoy it.  We don't want the SE eliminated, and so we don't understand why some fans will actively resist our efforts to bring the original version back - that makes it seem that on some level you must be in favor of the originals being eliminated.

So you are free to not join our efforts and our protests... we understand that not everyone is that passionate about this specific thing.  But by the same token, don't actively fight and argue against our protest - we're really all on the same side.

And Kenkraly replies with this...

 

"I wish some of you would stop calling star wars fans who go to websites like TFN or relbelsum.com Lucas apologists their good sources for star wars news of all of kinds. So just  because we support anything GL does where called  Lucas apologists?"

 

That says it all. Stop trying guys. Waste of time.

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kenkraly2007 said:

Mrebo said:


And as you admit here, you support anything GL does. That's simply dogmatic and blind to reason. We're not people who dislike Star Wars. We're just honest people who aren't afraid of critiquing poor decisions.

We have no reason to defend or support anything GL does. Only those who wish to maintain an income at LFL do.

Why do some of you wine and complain every time GL makes a change to the films? He has a right to change his films sure some of them are not good you can't please everyone. Sure not everyone is not going to like the changes but it the changes don't take away my enjoyment of the films.

Alright, I guess it calls for this again:

  • The sound for those little video clips of all 6 films on the star wars youtube channel just don't sound right. The little video clips on the starwars aficionado blogspot site and on the walmart site sound so much better. Those audio from those youtube clips will not be how it will sound when the final blu-ray's come out in September.

 

But seriously, if the changes, however terrible, don't take away your enjoyment of the films, good for you, even though I suspect you would worship a turd if it had STAR WARS written on it.

Of course Lucas has a right to do whatever he wants to the films, but it would be nice if he respected his fans and the people who helped him become what he is. Of course there is no law that would prevent him from doing that, but then again, infidelity is also not considered illegal in most countries, yet we generally consider it a bad thing to do.

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I said it before, I'll say it again. This cat is:

a) a superb troll

b) an irrational child

c) a mentally deficient person

I think it's a combination of (a) and (c).

It's not worth the energy to argue over and over, despite the entertainment factor.

I will never understand how someone can see Lucas as some benevolent creator whom we should adore for being gracious enough to give us scraps from his table. The man has shit all over movies that HUNDREDS of people helped create and claimed the solely as his own. Just look at the quote in my signature. He has no respect for the people who made him rich. Sadly, most of those people continue to buy whatever garbage he puts out.

And on top of all that, Lucas is a delusional fool who thinks people don't like the prequels or his SE changes because that's some part of being a tortured, misunderstood artist. No, people don't like those things because they are terrible. As Phil Tippett said, it's "CGI shit."

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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Harmy said:

Because all those people who liked STAR WARS before 1997 liked the original versions, an easy way to please all of the would have been not to make any changes. What is so hard to understand about that?

Star Wars is still going strong today with the clone wars cartoon series and the blu-ray release and the 3-D release coming soon. Their are people who still like star wars. 

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kenkraly2007 said:

Harmy said:

Because all those people who liked STAR WARS before 1997 liked the original versions, an easy way to please all of the would have been not to make any changes. What is so hard to understand about that?

Star Wars is still going strong today with the clone wars cartoon series and the blu-ray release and the 3-D release coming soon. Their are people who still like star wars. 

Alright, unless I see some sort of medical report, you are one crazy loonie, as far as I am concerned.

But you entertain me :)

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kenkraly2007 said:

Harmy said:

Because all those people who liked STAR WARS before 1997 liked the original versions, an easy way to please all of the would have been not to make any changes. What is so hard to understand about that?

Star Wars is still going strong today with the clone wars cartoon series and the blu-ray release and the 3-D release coming soon. Their are people who still like star wars. 

I don't see what that's got to do with anything, all these people who like the Clone Wars cartoon would probably still like STAR WARS even if the original trilogy was only cleaned up and rereleased that way in 97.

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kenkraly2007 said:

Mrebo said:


And as you admit here, you support anything GL does. That's simply dogmatic and blind to reason. We're not people who dislike Star Wars. We're just honest people who aren't afraid of critiquing poor decisions.

We have no reason to defend or support anything GL does. Only those who wish to maintain an income at LFL do.

Why do some of you wine and complain every time GL makes a change to the films? He has a right to change his films sure some of them are not good you can't please everyone. Sure not everyone is not going to like the changes but it the changes don't take away my enjoyment of the films.

You must understand the context. George Lucas refuses to rerelease quality versions the actual movies released to the public in 1977, 1980, and 1983. And then tells us whatever changes he makes constitute the real and only versions (at least twice now) and that we all need to accept it. So it's not just complaining about changes we happen not to like. It's the revision of cinematic history and arrogance toward those who loved what he gave us in 1977, 1980, and 1983.

If he were to release the originals, our complaints about the silly, unnecessary, and poorly done changes will fall way into the background. Many of us like some of the changes he made. I like the Wampa in ESB. But the debate is not primarily about liking or not liking the changes. That's merely a symptom of the real problem: not releasing the actual movies he made.

Why we do we complain when he makes yet another change? Because he's poking his finger in our eyes, twisting a film further and further from what it was. And if we truly do hate the change (ie "Noooo!") to a beloved movie...all we get from GL is 'too bad.' Would be a totally different story if GL said, "okay then go watch the high quality theatrical release also included on the blue discs I made with lasers."

Please don't tell me this change is better (please watch it, fun to see the clips back to back). It's truly absurd.

I don't care that GL has a right to change his films. He has a right to burn the negatives of all 6 films and never release them again. I'm not contesting that. GL can do a lot of things.

We are beseeching him to release the movies he made in 1977, 1980, and 1983. We're collectively willing to pay him millions of dollars for it. While his various edits of those movies are interesting and even enjoyable to some, don't pretend that they are the movies he originally made and released to the public.

If I were to go under my mother's bed and take out that drawing I made for her when I was 5, telling her I'm sorry she enjoyed an incomplete piece of work and proceeded to alter it and that it was now the proper version I had always intended it to be, I hope she would look at me like I'm nuts. You might look at it and think it's now quite brilliant (thank you) but its originally charm and appreciation will be undermined.

Similarly Star Wars has an original charm that is hurt with each revision.

You can like it all you want, but it is not the movie that GL made and released to the public.

The blue elephant in the room.

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bkev said:

Kenkraly it would really do you some good to respond to Puggo's post rather than the people agreeing with him in short, less articulate posts.  Also, Puggo actually gave you some CREDIT whereas all the posts you respond to just detract you.  I honestly cannot believe you are a grown person...

I find myself quite articulate! :P

But I agree...too often the most cogent post is ignored. Answer the man, ken!

The blue elephant in the room.

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kenkraly2007 said:


Why do some of you wine and complain every time GL makes a change to the films?


If you have to ask ...

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georgec said:

And on top of all that, Lucas is a delusional fool who thinks people don't like the prequels or his SE changes because that's some part of being a tortured, misunderstood artist. No, people don't like those things because they are terrible. As Phil Tippett said, it's "CGI shit."

nah...lucas knows the movies are garbage and cash-ins.  and he knows that people don't like them because they are garbage and cash-ins.  its the apologists that parrot the talkingpoint of lucas being a misunderstood artist that are delusional.

When Lucas said "special fx are just tools for telling a story, a special fx without a story is a pretty boring thing" he didn't mean that - he was just telling us what we wanted to hear.  just like when he says hollywood suits only care about money and marketing and not storytelling.  he knows he represents the most absolute extreme example of vapid cynical brand explotation.  but he needs the support of apologists.

click here if lack of OOT got you down

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walking_carpet said:

georgec said:

And on top of all that, Lucas is a delusional fool who thinks people don't like the prequels or his SE changes because that's some part of being a tortured, misunderstood artist. No, people don't like those things because they are terrible. As Phil Tippett said, it's "CGI shit."

nah...lucas knows the movies are garbage and cash-ins.  and he knows that people don't like them because they are garbage and cash-ins.  its the apologists that parrot the talkingpoint of lucas being a misunderstood artist that are delusional.

When Lucas said "special fx are just tools for telling a story, a special fx without a story is a pretty boring thing" he didn't mean that - he was just telling us what we wanted to hear.  just like when he says hollywood suits only care about money and marketing and not storytelling.  he knows he represents the most absolute extreme example of vapid cynical brand explotation.  but he needs the support of apologists.

I agree 100%. You mention that quote and I think it's from "From SW to Jedi." People love that documentary and it has some merit in showing behind the scenes action, but Lucas sounds and acts like the same guy he is today. That was made after his turn to the green side, and again you see how bored he is talking about moviemaking. It's just a tool for him to put some CGI shit on a screen and sell toys and other merchandise to people who can't get enough SW.

Still, the man has demonstrated deep conviction to his "everyone hates me and my movies" mantra, even if it is inauthentic.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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kenkraly2007 said:

 the changes don't take away my enjoyment of the films.

Wait, is the entire fucking world your diary? This is the worst Matrix yet.

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It's funny I actually wrote a letter to Jimmy Mac of the Forcecast just last week that mentioned how I felt that the SE's aren't the real films. Here it is if you're curious:

Hey Jimmy, just wanted to say first of all that I've been a big fan of the Forcecast for a few years now but I have to say I'm really disappointed in your coverage of the blu-rays.

I'm listening to the latest Forcecast right now and there are just some things that are bothering me. First of all, you keep saying that forcecast fans are the kind of fans that freeze frame every scene and study them looking at every minute detail but then you have Jason who's never noticed Han's neck jerk during the Greedo scene. 

I'm a part of a community that actually does study these films frame by frame looking for changes and documenting them. It was one of us that called out the "humdinger glitch" that they managed to fix at the last second for this release and there are still a lot of errors left in the films.

Second is your depiction of the fans who are boycotting this release. Are there people out there who claim that George Lucas raped their childhood? Yes there are but they're in the extreme minority and most of us like you find that highly inappropriate language. Also, we're not boycotting this release because we don't want George changing the special editions. We're boycotting because we want the release of the original theatrical editions alongside the special editions. And no, the 2006 bonus disc release does not count. Those were laserdisc masters from 1993 that are absolutely riddled with DVNR artifacting, stabilization and aliasing issues. I'd go into that more but I know you and Jason both agree that you'd like to see the theatrical editions released as well.

Third is your claim that the boycott didn't do anything. To that I disagree, the main purpose of the boycott was to raise awareness and in that I think it did a great job. A lot of sites ended up writing articles about this and discussing the issues. Articles that I have to note were not covered on the Forcecast or TFN but they were out there and people did read them.

Lastly is your claim that we're cheating ourselves by not buying this release of the films. I don't feel cheated at all because I don't consider the special editions to be the real films. Now don't get me wrong, I think George has every right to keep tweaking the special editions as much as he wants, let him have at it. 

But I do draw the line at his active suppression of the original theatrical versions. Don't forget he once said and I quote, "There will only be one. And it won't be what I would call the 'rough cut', it'll be the 'final cut'. The other one will be some sort of interesting artifact that people will look at and say, 'There was an earlier draft of this...' what ends up being important in my mind is what the DVD version is going to look like, because that's what everybody is going to remember. The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won't last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition]"

This is absolutely incredible to hear coming from a man who sits on the board of The Film Foundation (http://www.film-foundation.org/) whose stated goal is, "dedicated to protecting and preserving motion picture history by providing annual support for preservation and restoration projects" Doubly so because he was also once quoted as saying the following in regards to film preservation, "in the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be 'replaced' by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten....Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself." Can you not start to see where we're coming from now?

He never replied. =(

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Stepping softly in a danger zone…

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I listen to the forcecast every week and all of the shows great star wars podcast.