Star Wars coming to Blu Ray (UPDATE: August 30 2011, No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!) — Page 139

none said:

kenkraly2007 wrote: I like the original theatrical of the OT and yes I understand most people have never seen the OT especially young ones who only know of star wars from the clone wars tv series and the prequels. 

No no no, first i'm saying you haven't seen the original theatrical version of the OT, and secondly it's not just young people it's possibly old people as well.

Please list all the versions of Star Wars you have seen as descriptively accurate as you can.  And i'll explain how you and possibly 97% of the people who have seen Star Wars have never seen the original theatrical version.

I haven't even seen the actual original theatrical version. Harmy's reconstruction is as close as I've gotten to it.

@Kenkraly2007 George has been making changes to Star Wars before you were born.

That is true with ESB too. The original version of ESB was the 70mm version as this was the one finished first and contained some differences from the 35mm print. I was lucky enough to see the 70mm versions of Star Wars and ESB when they were first released (although a few months after people would have seen them in the US because of the UK release date)

none said:

adywan wrote: That is true with ESB too. The original version of ESB was the 70mm version as this was the one finished first and contained some differences from the 35mm print.

Rinzler's Making of ESB discusses this on page 333 'A Twist Ending' section.  One of the shots they extended and added dialog to was of the farewell at the end.  A shot of the Falcon docked under the cruiser was not in the 70mm.  Anyone know of any others?

* In the Emperor scene, the hologram of the Emperor is already present in the first shot- it does not "tune in" gradually:

GOUT

Puggo's Super 8

GOUT

Puggo's Super 8

* When Luke falls from Cloud City into the Millennium Falcon, the Falcon's radar dish is not added to the shot:

Puggo's Super 8

* After the probot lands on Hoth and moves frame left, there is an optical wipe to the overhead shot of Luke on his tauntaun, instead of a straight cut.
* After Luke wanders through the snow and falls face down, there is an optical wipe to Han instead of a straight cut.
* The bacta tank scene starts on a close-up of Two-One-Bee and pans right to a closeup of Luke in the tank. It then cuts to FX-7 extending it's arm to the tank. There is no cut to Leia, Han and Threepio observing.
* In the snow battle scene, when Luke drops into the snow after throwing a charge into the Imperial walker, the AT-ST in the background has no atmospheric depth. It looks to close and small.
* The Imperial fleet establishing shot after the magic tree scene has a different TIE fighter sound effect.
* The telepathy between Luke and Vader during the "Hyperspace" cue has straight cuts instead of quick dissolves.
* In the final scene, there is no tracked music from "Yoda and the Force". The scene begins with the first establishing shot of the rebel fleet, then cuts inside the Falcon for Lando to say, "Luke, we're ready for take-off" (but a different take of this was used). After Luke says (voice over), "Good luck, Lando" the scene cuts to inside the rebel cruiser where Luke says, "I'll meet you at the rendezvous, " etc. Not in this version are two more establishing shots of the fleet and an interim effects shot over which Lando says, "When we find Jabba the Hutt and that bounty hunter we'll contact you."

I see your point none but if we start demanding the "original" version of the end credits, while the other one was also made in 77 and is pretty much the same and definitely doesn't effectively change the film in any way, we would be totally playing into the cards of those who claim we are lunatics.

I actually believe that if there were two different versions during the original theatrical run, the most true original is the one that was most widely seen.

I definitely agree Harmy, it's a damn interesting find though...

Audio mixes are a much bigger issue. IMO, exactly the same as altering the visuals but that goes under the radar most of the time for some reason, that alone made the THX/GOUT release inauthentic.

none said:

adywan wrote: That is true with ESB too. The original version of ESB was the 70mm version as this was the one finished first and contained some differences from the 35mm print.

Rinzler's Making of ESB discusses this on page 333 'A Twist Ending' section.  One of the shots they extended and added dialog to was of the farewell at the end.  A shot of the Falcon docked under the cruiser was not in the 70mm.  Anyone know of any others?

Baronlando wrote: There were only a measly few 70mm prints on opening day, out of 40-ish theaters, so if it's a 70mm/35mm difference, I guess they both count as opening day/original?

This is a possibilty, early prints verses prints made as popularity grew.  The two opening day thing is definitely a complication in the 'original' debate.

So at this point it's throwing out ideas of ways to figure out why these differences occurred and thinking about other locations they might have showed up.  Was thinking are there any books from 1977-81 in which the credits might have been written out.  Maybe a press book, art book or the original novel?  Were the screen plays printed out then?  Another idea to follow through on, anyone know where 16mm prints were generally created from back then?  Did they tend to be source from 70 or 35mm?  Need to float the question to a larger audience see what comes back.

http://www.theforce.net/timetales/misc/arcana/arcana.asp

The program handed out at some theaters is there with the credits. The screenplay and credits are in "The Art of Star Wars" book, which was still in print last time I looked. They added an extra chapter or two about the SE in the 90's, but the original content was unchanged.

That I can agree with but in the case of the soundmixes it's also damn difficult to say which one is the real true original. All three would of course be best but that is sadly quite unrealistic.

Harmy said:

I see your point none but if we start demanding the "original" version of the end credits, while the other one was also made in 77 and is pretty much the same and definitely doesn't effectively change the film in any way, we would be totally playing into the cards of those who claim we are lunatics.

I actually believe that if there were two different versions during the original theatrical run, the most true original is the one that was most widely seen.

I agree with both points wholeheartedly. It's a thing to note, but not care about in terms of that hypothetical future release.

Harmy said:

That I can agree with but in the case of the soundmixes it's also damn difficult to say which one is the real true original. All three would of course be best but that is sadly quite unrealistic.

Yes, all three '77 sound mixes are part of the original theatrical run, so IMO it is an obvious inclusion, what is sad is that I do agree with you that it would be kind of unrealistic to expect it on a potential future video release, if you're going by other video releases nowadays. The audio part of a film is somehow not considered equally as important and holy as the visual part when it comes to preserving the illusion of the world they were trying to present to us then, which is something I don't get. (not directed towards you)

IMO a well made mono mix can wipe the floor with a 7.1 surround mix even though it's not as technically powerful, and even if it doesn't for some people, it is equally important of preservation as the image itself.

dark_jedi said:

LOL, with my new audio set up I will take 7.1 over mono any day of the week, and as far as wiping the floor, NO WAY DUDE! these new HD audio's are just SO powerful you can feel it, I just got all new POLK speakers and a Yamaha 7.2 Receiver so this new HD audio is friggin SWEET!

So 7.1 for me over mono any frackin day.

Yes, I'm aware that most people feel that way and are of that opinion, but what I meant by my statement "a mono track can wipe the floor with a 7.1 sourround track" is the artistic value behind it, how much you can hear sound behind you or the bass doesn't equally mean superior in my world, I take a well made original theatrical mix made for when the film was made before anything a technician have come up with for the newest video release just because it is the new shit. I take Walter Murch's "The Conversation", "THX 1138" over a crap 7.1 mix for Fast and the Furious or Triple X, just because the latter are powerful doesn't mean it fit a 70's film especially when it's not done by the people responsible for the films audio in the first place. (I know that my comparisons of films wasn't the best ;) but I hope you get what I mean)

none said:

SilverWook wrote: http://www.theforce.net/timetales/misc/arcana/arcana.asp

Thanks, need to go through the credits more closely.  Was hoping that there would have been published somewhere a more or less same credit listing (centered sim spacing) and that would either have or not have this space.  The Program scans (pg18) are reformatted.  Need to do more poking around.  Looked at the Art of SW (1979) and the JW credit is closer to the Special Edition version as the words 'Original Music' appears on the first line, they appear in the second line pre-SE.

 The '77 theatrical program was also re-issued, the one SilverWook linked to is the original though. Checked the original LP also, no "none-traces." Honestly, I don't think it have anything to do with Williams.

I sometimes think 7.1 and these new audio codecs were invented to make us all buy new amps to go with our new Blu Ray players. ;)

I don't even have wall space to put more speakers in my main setup. I'm not sure any of my local theaters have 7.1 outside of the IMAX screen either, but I digress...

How were credit scrolls done in the 70's? It was all printed on a big plastic roll that was cranked in front of a camera, right? At least that is how it was done for tv at the time. Character generators were around, but often looked a lot like PONG.

Anchorhead said:

msycamore said:

I take Walter Murch's "The Conversation"...over...

 

I know that my comparisons of films wasn't the best ;)

I have to disagree. 

Your film comparison wipes the floor with anything else I can think of.  The Conversation is an audio masterpiece.  There are layers and nuances that have to be heard to to even come close to understanding. 

It's been a favorite of mine ever since I first saw it in the 70s.  It's also one of my absolute favorites to listen to the full audio rip of.  Which, by the way, is something I do regularly every November, December, and January - weekly, and only on rainy days.

 

Later in the week, Sunday maybe. Sunday definitely.

:) I fully agree, one of my favorites as well, also the fact that Coppola made this film and The Godfather Part II in the same year is nothing short of a miracle.

Isn't the audio on the DVD of The Conversation a remix?