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Star Wars as a cohesive universe/canon. — Page 3

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BiggsFan44 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:
Damn. I was striving for “snide”.

I mean, people like you are why the ST is a stale rehash

If you really knew anything about me, you’d know I consider TFA pablum, that I’ve refused to see TLJ, and that I utterly detest the capitalist abomination that is the Walt Disney Company.

I’m not miffed you dislike the ST. I merely find it infantile that you get “very angered” over someone coming away from the ST with a different POV than yours.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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DuracellEnergizer said:
If you really knew anything about me, you’d know I consider TFA pablum, that I’ve refused to see TLJ, and that I utterly detest the capitalist abomination that is the Walt Disney Company.

I’m not miffed you dislike the ST. I merely find it infantile that you get “very angered” over someone coming away from the ST with a different POV than yours.

Because some things aren’t really as easy as POV.
TFA is more than just a little poorly made.

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BiggsFan44 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:
If you really knew anything about me, you’d know I consider TFA pablum, that I’ve refused to see TLJ, and that I utterly detest the capitalist abomination that is the Walt Disney Company.

I’m not miffed you dislike the ST. I merely find it infantile that you get “very angered” over someone coming away from the ST with a different POV than yours.

Because some things aren’t really as easy as POV.

TFA is more than just a little poorly made.

Then ignore it. I hate ROTJ, the PT, the SEs, all the Disney movies except R1, and half of the EU; rather than piss & moan over their continued existence, I pretend they don’t exist.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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BiggsFan44 said:

  1. massive double standard between the PT and ST

You mean like having no problem with the PT introducing continuity errors, but hating the ST for reverting them? Yes, I think that’s a massive double standard.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Seems this thread exists just to express your low opinion of the ST, and hopefully find an echo chamber.

Seems the members at OT aren’t having it.

But good news. You can join us, and we can enjoy the cohesive universe together!

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Frank your Majesty said:

BiggsFan44 said:

  1. massive double standard between the PT and ST

You mean like having no problem with the PT introducing continuity errors, but hating the ST for reverting them? Yes, I think that’s a massive double standard.

I don’t know what you’re misunderstanding here. My original post is not about continuity errors.

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BiggsFan44 said:

Frank your Majesty said:

BiggsFan44 said:

  1. massive double standard between the PT and ST

You mean like having no problem with the PT introducing continuity errors, but hating the ST for reverting them? Yes, I think that’s a massive double standard.

I don’t know what you’re misunderstanding here. My original post is not about continuity errors.

I’m talking about Yoda being a puppet again. I don’t care if you want to call that a continuity error or something else.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Frank your Majesty said:
I’m talking about Yoda being a puppet again. I don’t care if you want to call that a continuity error or something else.

If you’re intentionally avoiding the actual topic, then you’re just trolling.

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It’s a point you brought up, so I don’t see how it’s off-topic.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Frank your Majesty said:

It’s a point you brought up, so I don’t see how it’s off-topic.

It really isn’t. The topic of my post is how parts of the saga passing judgement on others breaks the feeling that it’s all one saga.
Yoda being CG in the PT isn’t passing judgement on puppet Yoda for the same reason that Maz Kanata being CG isn’t.

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if anything is just trolling, i am tempted to believe it is this topic.

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Busy for a thread just started today.

But to tackle the question of the original post… things don’t have to be perfect. Yoda is voiced by Frank Oz in all the films so it is the same character. Puppet or CG doesn’t matter. Just like it doesn’t matter that there were multiple R2-D2’s used in each film, not to mention the vast number used over the course of the Saga. Do you really watch for the hoses that hid Kenny Baker’s legs or the supports that hold him in the correct position when the 3rd leg is out? Those are movie shortcuts that you are supposed to ignore. If you want perfection, you will not find it. It doesn’t exist. Rogue One did an awesome job of replicating aspects of A New Hope, but there are flaws even in that. Who cares that Hayden’s character is especailly whiny and in Clone Wars he is more sure of himself. It was his golden age and he was elevated to Jedi Knight and assigned a Padawan. Clone Wars did a good job of hinting at the growing Darkness in Anakin.

And if you watch the Saga in order on Blu-ray, you get 3 films of CG Yoda, 1 film without Yoda, 2 films with old Puppet Yoda, another film without Yoda, and 1 film with Puppet Yoda 3.0 (my opinion is that 2.0 is best forgotten and was fortunately replaced by CG Yoda). Why complain? It is a series of movies made over more than 40 years. Technology has changed and they have managed to keep the vision pretty consistent. A lot of people can’t wrap their heads around sets, props, and models not always being built to scale. Spend some time appreciating the classics and the development of special effects and movie magic and you can ignore all of it and appreciate the grander story being told. Don’t sweat the little things. The character of Anakin/Vader was played by 7 people over the course of 6 films and Clone Wars.

But then, I am also a Star Trek fan and as a Trekkie I have to deal with recasting Saavik, changing Klingons, Romulans, ship models that aren’t in scale and seem to appear in many scales, and a whole host of issues that make what you are talking about seem pretty pathetic and ignorable. I’m also a Doctor Who fan where we’ve had 3 actors play the first Doctor, 3 versions of the Destruction of Atlantis, two origins for the Daleks and Cybermen, and so many glitches, gaffs, and outright contradictions that two different versions of Anakin between the movies and Clone Wars is nothing.

Almost every movie has its issues and you just accept them and let the illusion wash over you and don’t sweat the details. It is cool to notice them and find all the mistakes the movie makers made, but letting it ruin a movie makes about as much sense as cutting off your leg because you stubbed your toe.

Going back to Star Trek, when I finished watching 7 seasons of TNG and then was presented with Generations, it sucked. 7 seasons of intelligent stories followed by such a dud… And it only got worse when Abrams and Orci made their films. Talk about not knowing your characters and no knowing the property. Those films make the worst of the Prequels look like an Oscar winner. Trek canon was literally thrown out the window. You can argue that Luke in the ST (Rian just followed JJ’s lead and piked up where he left off) is very much like the Luke of ANH and TESB where the ROTJ Luke was quite different. But there is a 200 page topic about TLJ that frequently discusses Luke. But as a fan of many franchises I find that Star Wars has been the most faithful and consistent over the course of years where others often involve overlooking a lot more heinous mis-steps.

So I find it quite easy to ignore all of it and focus on the story. That is what is important after all.

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yotsuya said:

Busy for a thread just started today.

But to tackle the question of the original post… things don’t have to be perfect. Yoda is voiced by Frank Oz in all the films so it is the same character. Puppet or CG doesn’t matter. Just like it doesn’t matter that there were multiple R2-D2’s used in each film, not to mention the vast number used over the course of the Saga. Do you really watch for the hoses that hid Kenny Baker’s legs or the supports that hold him in the correct position when the 3rd leg is out? Those are movie shortcuts that you are supposed to ignore. If you want perfection, you will not find it. It doesn’t exist. Rogue One did an awesome job of replicating aspects of A New Hope, but there are flaws even in that. Who cares that Hayden’s character is especailly whiny and in Clone Wars he is more sure of himself. It was his golden age and he was elevated to Jedi Knight and assigned a Padawan. Clone Wars did a good job of hinting at the growing Darkness in Anakin.

And if you watch the Saga in order on Blu-ray, you get 3 films of CG Yoda, 1 film without Yoda, 2 films with old Puppet Yoda, another film without Yoda, and 1 film with Puppet Yoda 3.0 (my opinion is that 2.0 is best forgotten and was fortunately replaced by CG Yoda). Why complain? It is a series of movies made over more than 40 years. Technology has changed and they have managed to keep the vision pretty consistent. A lot of people can’t wrap their heads around sets, props, and models not always being built to scale. Spend some time appreciating the classics and the development of special effects and movie magic and you can ignore all of it and appreciate the grander story being told. Don’t sweat the little things. The character of Anakin/Vader was played by 7 people over the course of 6 films and Clone Wars.

But then, I am also a Star Trek fan and as a Trekkie I have to deal with recasting Saavik, changing Klingons, Romulans, ship models that aren’t in scale and seem to appear in many scales, and a whole host of issues that make what you are talking about seem pretty pathetic and ignorable. I’m also a Doctor Who fan where we’ve had 3 actors play the first Doctor, 3 versions of the Destruction of Atlantis, two origins for the Daleks and Cybermen, and so many glitches, gaffs, and outright contradictions that two different versions of Anakin between the movies and Clone Wars is nothing.

Almost every movie has its issues and you just accept them and let the illusion wash over you and don’t sweat the details. It is cool to notice them and find all the mistakes the movie makers made, but letting it ruin a movie makes about as much sense as cutting off your leg because you stubbed your toe.

Going back to Star Trek, when I finished watching 7 seasons of TNG and then was presented with Generations, it sucked. 7 seasons of intelligent stories followed by such a dud… And it only got worse when Abrams and Orci made their films. Talk about not knowing your characters and no knowing the property. Those films make the worst of the Prequels look like an Oscar winner. Trek canon was literally thrown out the window. You can argue that Luke in the ST (Rian just followed JJ’s lead and piked up where he left off) is very much like the Luke of ANH and TESB where the ROTJ Luke was quite different. But there is a 200 page topic about TLJ that frequently discusses Luke. But as a fan of many franchises I find that Star Wars has been the most faithful and consistent over the course of years where others often involve overlooking a lot more heinous mis-steps.

So I find it quite easy to ignore all of it and focus on the story. That is what is important after all.

Good perspective. Just to clarify, I’m also talking about the idea of certain pieces of the canon not respecting other pieces even though they are supposed to be 9 parts of one story, which is slightly different from recasting etc.
On the topic of Trek, it’s funny that you mention scale, since now that I know that the saucer set in First Contact was not full size it bugs me, even though you can’t tell in the film that it is only 70 percent of the full size.

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so your whole point is canon not respecting other canon? i don’t think this actually exists, outside of certain youtubers opinions.

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BiggsFan44 said:
Good perspective. Just to clarify, I’m also talking about the idea of certain pieces of the canon not respecting other pieces even though they are supposed to be 9 parts of one story, which is slightly different from recasting etc.
On the topic of Trek, it’s funny that you mention scale, since now that I know that the saucer set in First Contact was not full size it bugs me, even though you can’t tell in the film that it is only 70 percent of the full size.

But Star Wars has been disrespecting its own canon from day one. In the first film Luke, who had an obvious crush on Princess Leia, was the son of a war hero who’d been killed by Darth Vader. In the next film Lucas suddenly decided Vader was actually Luke’s father. Then he decided that Leia was Luke’s sister, the Emperor was a different bloke to the one we’d seen in Empire, and Luke had supposedly been ‘hidden’ at the family homestead and with Dad’s old surname intact no less! I haven’t even started on the prequels yet!

“Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”

“Uh, well, ‘remember’ is such a strong word…”

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Shopping Maul said:

BiggsFan44 said:
Good perspective. Just to clarify, I’m also talking about the idea of certain pieces of the canon not respecting other pieces even though they are supposed to be 9 parts of one story, which is slightly different from recasting etc.
On the topic of Trek, it’s funny that you mention scale, since now that I know that the saucer set in First Contact was not full size it bugs me, even though you can’t tell in the film that it is only 70 percent of the full size.

But Star Wars has been disrespecting its own canon from day one. In the first film Luke, who had an obvious crush on Princess Leia, was the son of a war hero who’d been killed by Darth Vader. In the next film Lucas suddenly decided Vader was actually Luke’s father. Then he decided that Leia was Luke’s sister, the Emperor was a different bloke to the one we’d seen in Empire, and Luke had supposedly been ‘hidden’ at the family homestead and with Dad’s old surname intact no less! I haven’t even started on the prequels yet!

“Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”

“Uh, well, ‘remember’ is such a strong word…”

This.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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 (Edited)

Shopping Maul said:

BiggsFan44 said:
Good perspective. Just to clarify, I’m also talking about the idea of certain pieces of the canon not respecting other pieces even though they are supposed to be 9 parts of one story, which is slightly different from recasting etc.
On the topic of Trek, it’s funny that you mention scale, since now that I know that the saucer set in First Contact was not full size it bugs me, even though you can’t tell in the film that it is only 70 percent of the full size.

But Star Wars has been disrespecting its own canon from day one. In the first film Luke, who had an obvious crush on Princess Leia, was the son of a war hero who’d been killed by Darth Vader. In the next film Lucas suddenly decided Vader was actually Luke’s father. Then he decided that Leia was Luke’s sister, the Emperor was a different bloke to the one we’d seen in Empire, and Luke had supposedly been ‘hidden’ at the family homestead and with Dad’s old surname intact no less! I haven’t even started on the prequels yet!

“Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”

“Uh, well, ‘remember’ is such a strong word…”

I’m really not being clear, apparently.
That’s not the kind of disrespect I’m talking about. Lucas retconning his work doesn’t mean that he disagrees with those works, it just means he thought up a new story element.
For example, George does not feel about ANH the way JJ feels about the PT, I’m sure.

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BiggsFan44 said:

Shopping Maul said:

BiggsFan44 said:
Good perspective. Just to clarify, I’m also talking about the idea of certain pieces of the canon not respecting other pieces even though they are supposed to be 9 parts of one story, which is slightly different from recasting etc.
On the topic of Trek, it’s funny that you mention scale, since now that I know that the saucer set in First Contact was not full size it bugs me, even though you can’t tell in the film that it is only 70 percent of the full size.

But Star Wars has been disrespecting its own canon from day one. In the first film Luke, who had an obvious crush on Princess Leia, was the son of a war hero who’d been killed by Darth Vader. In the next film Lucas suddenly decided Vader was actually Luke’s father. Then he decided that Leia was Luke’s sister, the Emperor was a different bloke to the one we’d seen in Empire, and Luke had supposedly been ‘hidden’ at the family homestead and with Dad’s old surname intact no less! I haven’t even started on the prequels yet!

“Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”

“Uh, well, ‘remember’ is such a strong word…”

I’m really not being clear, apparently.
That’s not the kind of disrespect I’m talking about. Lucas retconning his work doesn’t mean that he disagrees with those works, it just means he thought up a new story element.
For example, George does not feel about ANH the way JJ feels about the PT, I’m sure.

I recall that George really disliked Star Wars (1977) and embarked on a forty-year quest to ‘fix’ them to his liking.

DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V2 Released!) and The Starlight Project

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NeverarGreat said:

BiggsFan44 said:

Shopping Maul said:

BiggsFan44 said:
Good perspective. Just to clarify, I’m also talking about the idea of certain pieces of the canon not respecting other pieces even though they are supposed to be 9 parts of one story, which is slightly different from recasting etc.
On the topic of Trek, it’s funny that you mention scale, since now that I know that the saucer set in First Contact was not full size it bugs me, even though you can’t tell in the film that it is only 70 percent of the full size.

But Star Wars has been disrespecting its own canon from day one. In the first film Luke, who had an obvious crush on Princess Leia, was the son of a war hero who’d been killed by Darth Vader. In the next film Lucas suddenly decided Vader was actually Luke’s father. Then he decided that Leia was Luke’s sister, the Emperor was a different bloke to the one we’d seen in Empire, and Luke had supposedly been ‘hidden’ at the family homestead and with Dad’s old surname intact no less! I haven’t even started on the prequels yet!

“Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”

“Uh, well, ‘remember’ is such a strong word…”

I’m really not being clear, apparently.
That’s not the kind of disrespect I’m talking about. Lucas retconning his work doesn’t mean that he disagrees with those works, it just means he thought up a new story element.
For example, George does not feel about ANH the way JJ feels about the PT, I’m sure.

I recall that George really disliked Star Wars (1977) and embarked on a forty-year quest to ‘fix’ them to his liking.

That’s disingenuous as hell.
He likes it, it’s just that it’s far from what his imagination could dream up, as any sci fi movie from that era is.
Hell, the finished product doesn’t even match McQuarrie’s paintings.
Besides, half the SE changes are cool. That giant half buried ship that’s at a 70 degree angle in Mos Eisley is cool.
Also, the restoration of that one Biggs scene towards the end (gotta love Biggs).

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BiggsFan44 said:

Besides, half the SE changes are cool. That giant half buried ship that’s at a 70 degree angle in Mos Eisley is cool.
Also, the restoration of that one Biggs scene towards the end (gotta love Biggs).

If only Lucas had thought to reincorporate the earlier Biggs scenes along with it. Then its inclusion might work instead of feeling tacked on and incongruous.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM