Star Wars and Indiana Jones on Blu-Ray Discussion — Page 3

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little hearing the prequels be referred to as "the first three films."

I will not pay for Lucas to further destroy his movies.  The Indy Pictures are as much Spielbergs as they are his and he was probably not even asked about the added cgi.

THX 1138 destroyed on dvd by added cgi

Star Wars trilogy destroyed on dvd by added cgi and botced colors and sound, and non anamrphic bonus discs of the originals in 16 year old laserdisc transfers.

American Graffiti a single shot in the opening changed by cgi still to me the movie is ruined, another reason to own the laserdisc.

If george wants to ruin his classic films i suggest he also release the original theatrical and home video versions on dvd in the same quality as the cgi tinkering editions.

If Ridley Scott and Steven Spielberg can do this then certainly Lucas can.

THX and Graffiti are two that have always puzzled the hell out of me. What was the reason for that singular CG shot at the beginning of Graffiti? Would it have really made a difference if he'd not bothered with it? Did he just want to leave his signature on it? Hi, I am George Lucas, I put CG in all my old films!

I really like to watch older movies with the period it was made in in mind. To view them as a product of their era. I will watch a bunch of movies made within just a few years of each other and take note of the styles and trends popular at the time. Behavior like George's really knock this out of wack and irritates me to no end. And for what? Yeah, nobody can really say. Err, yeah, George updated American Graffiti because... well, because... er... huh. THX 1138? Yes it was imperative George added CG effects to this film, because it was so outdated looking and it would make it more acceptable to the masses. Nobody likes THX 1138, and the types that do like it and watch it are not the types that get bored unless they are wooed by colorful CG graphics and explosions (like the masses of new "SW fans" who think ANH is extremely boring, but ROTS is the end all be all).

Vaderisnothayden said:

Gaffer Tape said:

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little hearing the prequels be referred to as "the first three films."

Yeah, I know what you mean. That gets me seriously angry, thinking about it. The first three films my arse hole. Revisionist nonsense.

 

Even after all these years of Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom being a prequel to Raider's of the Lost Ark, and I still don't here people calling Temple of Doom the first Indy movie.

Of course this "first three films" thing was inevitable. I think it has something to do with the giant Roman numerals I - III.

It is not bullshit to claim the PT was made to be seen after the original trilogy. It is pure fact that they were made to be seen before the original trilogy.

The issue here lies in the fact that the PT was so poorly done, so little attention was paid to details and to making it mesh with the other three films, that they simply do not work.

Whatever evidence someone can give for them being halfway decent films, whatever arguments can be made about some fans being too harsh and not giving them the chance, the fact remains that they simply do not work as intended. You can't even argue with this. Anyone who claims they work and mesh just fine with the IV, V, and VI are turning a blind eye to the reality of the situation.

Shoddy workmanship. Plain and simple. The PT might as well have the label: "Made in China" stamped on them. They are dollar store quality, at best.

Oops. Double post.

C3PX said:

It is not bullshit to claim the PT was made to be seen after the original trilogy. It is pure fact that they were made to be seen before the original trilogy.

I agree with everything else, but I have to call shenanigans on this, and I'm quite shocked you said it.  As far as I can see, all evidence, apart from George's statements, point to the fact that the prequels were made to be viewed from the perspective of those who have seen the original first.  TPM's teaser poster, the Darth Vader breathing at the end of that movie, lines like, "I have the feeling you'll be the death of me," and advertisement for ROTS calling it the end of the saga clearly indicate to me that they were made with the OT audience in mind.  They totally failed in that regard, mind you, but it's clear to me that they were intended far too much to be seen after the OT to justify in any regard that they're meant to be seen first.

I don't think things like the Darth Vader TPM poster indicates that they were not meant to be seen as true prequels. It was obviously used to market it to people who were familar with the old films. From a marketing standpoint, it would be unreasonable not to try to invoke nastalgia in such ways. Vader breathing at the end of the credits was not much more than an easter egg, a treat to the fans. "I have a feeling you'll be the death of me" was an in joke. And the ROTS ad calling it the end of the saga was again, marketing to the original audience, and indicating the fact that is was the last movie in the saga to be made. 

I get what you are saying, and agree. The poor PT seems to suffer from some pretty harsh identity confusion, "Am I the beginning? Am I the end? I am so confused? What am I? I must be some kind of a freak!" (yup!)

I think all the things you mentioned were inevitable symtoms of being a series of prequels made 20+ years after their sequels. The actual features themselves, despite being clever enough to reference the older films in "cute" little ways ("I've got a bad feeling about this", "you'll be the death of me", and so on), seem to be striving to be true prequels.

It is George's complete lack of creativity that makes them seem as if they are made to be views with part one following six. With some creativity he could have found ways to make Anakin's turn convincing, to keep the "I am your father", "Leia is my sister" surprises intact for future generations. Just a modicum of creativity is all it would have taken, but the old man is spent, he's got nothing left. He has been demostraiting that to us again and again since 1999. Instead of even trying, he gives up and says that it was impossible. 

George, who was the primary creative force behind the PT claims that they are meant to be seen before the others. His intention was to make them all fit together as a series to be seen chronologically. He just couldn't to it.

As a result of his miserable failings, mixed with nostalgia targeted advertising and a few in jokes, and you have a very good reason to believe they were intended to be seen in the order in which they were made. 

At least, that is my perspective on it. Though I have to concede, they work much better as companions to the OT, non-canonical extra features intended to be seen after the main features, meant to give viewers an idea of what might have happened in those years before the rise of the Empire and the near extinction of the Jedi. Somehow, I have a feeling George and I would fail to see eye to eye on this though.

But honestly, even if they were made perfectly and fit seamlessly as true prequels, I still wouldn't watch them in numerical order (see for example my Narnia thread =P).  I'm thoroughly publicationist over chronologist.  In college, I was even annoyed that we started reading the Oedipus trilogy in chronological order, even though Medea, chronologically the last part, was written first!

It is like how J.R.R. Tolkien and his heir Christopher Tolkien Said The Silmarillion Should be read first. The hobbit second and the lord of the rings as the last piece.  But even though the silmarillion was written first it was published last, and the hobbit came out first. 

I read them in  the order they were published in.

I was introduced to the hobbit as a child,  read rings as a teenager and later i read the silmarillion.

Just like i started the Narnia series with The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.  I care less for the chronological method as it seems quite an unnatural way to read the books if they were not published in that order.

Whenever i watch the star wars films i always watch the originals first,  Then the prequels if i even get a desire to see them again which i don't.

Oedipus on the other hand i only read the first play Rex or "the king"  is the best out of all three of the theban plays.  Sophocles was not the originator of the story. 

His version is the only one we have a complete copy of and the earlier work by an unnamed greek poet is only fragmentary. 

But the historians and mythologists did enough research to establish Oedipus sleeping with His mother originates with Sophocles and is not in the original version. 

Supposedly according to one scholar the anachronistic view started by Freud was not held by the ancient greeks.  Oedipus sleeping with his mother was not the key movement and  shock of the story.  It was the murder of his own father that the ancients greeks found to be an unpardenable crime.

DarkGryphon2048 said:

budwhite said:

skyjedi2005 said:

 

American Graffiti a single shot in the opening changed by cgi still to me the movie is ruined, another reason to own the laserdisc.

 

 

 That is just plain stupid

Well SkyJedi IS a blatantly stupid moronic dumbass.

 

That was pretty much uncalled for.

Not sure if budwhite was saying George changing the opening was just plain stupid (which is how I initially took it), or if sky feeling the whole movie was ruined because of it was plain stupid. But Gryphon's reply was pretty dickish response either way.

I know it sounds dumb, but I kind of feel the same way sky does. Just the fact that that bit is changed, kind of soils the whole thing. Illogical maybe. But everyone exhibits ridiculous illogical reasoning in some way or another. For example, I happen to absolutely freakin love sheep's brain. One of my favorite meals. I also eat beef tongue sometimes, and on occasion I like to enjoy a beer with a nice plate of beef liver and heart. I've noticed most Americans grow nauseous at the mere thought of eating these things. I've also discovered some people have a hard time eating fish when the head and skin are still intact (i.e. when it still looks like a fish). Why? To me this is dumb. I could very well go out on a whim and say any ignorant dumbass who has a problem with these things is not only stupid and moronic, but blatantly so. But I understand we all have our things, so I let it be and forgive them their close mindedness. 

So yeah, I'll take the Graffiti laser disc over the screwed up DVD one any day of the week. However, someone mentioned the original shot is in the extra features. If that shot is indeed the only change, then that sounds like a pretty easy thing to fix and still have it all in DVD quality. I'll have to look into that.

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