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Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4k UHD -- 27 DISC Boxed Set -- 3/31/2020 — Page 18

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yotsuya said:

Han Solo IRL said:

MikeMatt101 said:

Broom Kid said:

Looking at the cap from above, thought I’d put together a comparison of “Here to Rescue Yous”

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/7DKY7NNX

I think I got those all labeled correctly.

May I ask, is the last of these screenshots the 2019 Blu Ray or the 2019 4K?

It’s the 4K. It’s got a 3840x1610 pixel count.

yotsuya said:

It sounds like we need to rip the new BR’s and 4k discs and apply a lut to make the 4k version match the colors of the BR. From what I’ve seen the 4k versions have crap colors unless you discover what tinkering you need. Virtually all the 4k screen caps I’ve seen look like crap. Utter crap. So washed out and unlike any film I’ve ever seen in a theater. Natalie Kalmus would be appalled.

The 4K discs are orders of magnitude better than the new 1080p discs for colour and contrast on my GZ1000. Tone mapped screencaps on PC monitors don’t give a good or accurate representation of the 4K versions at all.

From what has been shared, I can’t see it. If you can’t even capture an accurate image of it, what good is it? It has the resolution but if this community is going to make use of that, the colors you claim to be seeing need to transfer over or they are useless. So if we can’t transfer them any other way, we copy the BR colors to the 4k image. Should be easy. I don’t care for 4k because of all the problems the format seems to be having. We can’t burn 4k disc, we can’t transfer HDR colors, can’t even get the right colors in screen caps.

Converting HDR to SDR will always be problematic because you have to compromise somewhere and fidelity will be lost. You can’t squeeze 10 gallons of water into a 5 gallon bucket. Troublesome SDR screenshots don’t imply a problem with the format.

Ignore the SDR screen caps. On a capable 4K HDR display, the overall dynamic range and colors of these transfers (based on the D+ versions, haven’t seen the discs yet) are fantastic. Brightness is just fine and they don’t look washed out at all. Maybe not as punchy as some transfers, but this isn’t Thor: Ragnarok (reference HDR image btw). It’s 70s film and they stayed truer to that aesthetic. Just a shame about the DNR and frozen grain.

The challenge with HDR isn’t that it has no guidelines; it does. Its real challenge is that it’s about 5 to 10 years ahead of current display technology. No consumer display can hit 4000 nits, let alone 10,000, and even then, LCDs don’t have anywhere near the contrast to do the format justice. I’ve had two relatively high-end displays recently: the Samsung Q90R and Sony XBR-65A9F. The Samsung is superior in terms of maximum brightness, but the higher contrast of Sony’s OLED gives it a much punchier image, and therefore the appearance of nearly the same brightness, while having superior black levels (obviously) and color volume. Judging HDR transfers on even the best LCDs isn’t fair to the transfer.

(I kept the OLED. It absolutely destroys the Pioneer Kuro it replaced.)

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

MTFBWY…A

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 (Edited)

Jay said:

yotsuya said:

Han Solo IRL said:

MikeMatt101 said:

Broom Kid said:

Looking at the cap from above, thought I’d put together a comparison of “Here to Rescue Yous”

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/7DKY7NNX

I think I got those all labeled correctly.

May I ask, is the last of these screenshots the 2019 Blu Ray or the 2019 4K?

It’s the 4K. It’s got a 3840x1610 pixel count.

yotsuya said:

It sounds like we need to rip the new BR’s and 4k discs and apply a lut to make the 4k version match the colors of the BR. From what I’ve seen the 4k versions have crap colors unless you discover what tinkering you need. Virtually all the 4k screen caps I’ve seen look like crap. Utter crap. So washed out and unlike any film I’ve ever seen in a theater. Natalie Kalmus would be appalled.

The 4K discs are orders of magnitude better than the new 1080p discs for colour and contrast on my GZ1000. Tone mapped screencaps on PC monitors don’t give a good or accurate representation of the 4K versions at all.

From what has been shared, I can’t see it. If you can’t even capture an accurate image of it, what good is it? It has the resolution but if this community is going to make use of that, the colors you claim to be seeing need to transfer over or they are useless. So if we can’t transfer them any other way, we copy the BR colors to the 4k image. Should be easy. I don’t care for 4k because of all the problems the format seems to be having. We can’t burn 4k disc, we can’t transfer HDR colors, can’t even get the right colors in screen caps.

Converting HDR to SDR will always be problematic because you have to compromise somewhere and fidelity will be lost. You can’t squeeze 10 gallons of water into a 5 gallon bucket. Troublesome SDR screenshots don’t imply a problem with the format.

Ignore the SDR screen caps. On a capable 4K HDR display, the overall dynamic range and colors of these transfers (based on the D+ versions, haven’t seen the discs yet) are fantastic. Brightness is just fine and they don’t look washed out at all. Maybe not as punchy as some transfers, but this isn’t Thor: Ragnarok (reference HDR image btw). It’s 70s film and they stayed truer to that aesthetic. Just a shame about the DNR and frozen grain.

The challenge with HDR isn’t that it has no guidelines; it does. Its real challenge is that it’s about 5 to 10 years ahead of current display technology. No consumer display can hit 4000 nits, let alone 10,000, and even then, LCDs don’t have anywhere near the contrast to do the format justice. I’ve had two relatively high-end displays recently: the Samsung Q90R and Sony XBR-65A9F. The Samsung is superior in terms of maximum brightness, but the higher contrast of Sony’s OLED gives it a much punchier image, and therefore the appearance of nearly the same brightness, while having superior black levels (obviously) and color volume. Judging HDR transfers on even the best LCDs isn’t fair to the transfer.

(I kept the OLED. It absolutely destroys the Pioneer Kuro it replaced.)

I agree! The HDR color grading is very good, and quite faithful to the original presentation. None of the screenshots posted do justice to how it looks on a proper HDR setup. Despite the frozen grain this is the best these movies have ever looked, and if I’m not in a purist mindset, this is the version I will be watching. I’m also happy they gave the PT a similar cinematic color grading, much more in keeping with how it would look on film, rather than have the OT conform to the hyper saturated imagery of the PT.

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adywan said:

Just got the 4k box set delivered. My god is this release seriously f**ked up. Why the hell is the HDR so damn dark, especially when you compare it to the Blu-Ray? But that’s not the thing thats really pissing me off with this release. No, it’s the special features that they class as “legacy features”. Who the hell was given the task of compiling these? An idiot? For a start features like TPM’s " The Beginning" , instead of using the 16:9 anamorphic master, they present this as 4:3 letterbox. So a small bloody picture surrounded by huge black bars all around the TV screen . And its a jaggedy mess . The version on the original DVD is better quality. (view the pictures full size because you can’t really see the difference in the shrunk preview here).

(Pictures are taken on my phone direct from the TV)

The TPM deleted scenes seem to be 16:9 anamorphic ( only checked 2 so far)

I then checked the ROTJ bonus features. First one i checked was the "revenge " teaser. Correct ratio but still DVD quality. Then onto the Revenge release trailer. WTF? Morons at work once again. Some idiot forgot to encode this with the 16:9 flag, so now its presented in 4:3 with all its squashed glory

And that’s just the features i have checked so far

I was really hoping that these bonus features ported over from the old DVDs would be slightly better quality due to compression. I never expected them to be worse. Waste of bloody money. I only purchased the UHD box set for the features and EP 9, as i will never watch the prequels. I wish i’d gone with my original plan and cancelled the box set when i ordered months ago and waited for the individual episodes to be released on UHD over here.

EDIT: Just checked “Anatomy of a Dewback” & ROTS’s “Within a Minute” features and both are 4:3 , jaggedy mess letterbox, the same as “The Beginning” . But ROTS’s “The journey” is 16:9 anamorphic but still suffers with the interlacing jaggedy mess issues

EDIT #2: Ripped the TPM bonus disc to the hard drive to see if it was an issue with my Sony UHD Bluray player but, no, the problems lie within the way they have been encoded. Even deinterlacing/ pulldown removal, the jaggies are still present. One interesting thing i didn’t spot before though is that it has the complete Theatrical version of the Pod Race in 1080p. I don’t remember this being available before

I’m absolutely fizzing about this because this was honestly the main reason I bought the set: the bonus content. If I’d known they’d balls it up this badly I would have just bought the old 2011 set.

Does anybody know for sure if the 2011 Blu-ray set (the one with the bonus discs) has The Beginning etc. in better quality than the new set and - hopefully - slightly better than the old DVDs?

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No, it does not. “The Beginning” is not on the 2011 Blu Ray set at all. Keep your 2001 DVD.

Also, I wanted to mention to any collectors out there, the UK 9 DVD set is PAL, rather than NTSC. I was under the impression that even European DVDs were being made NTSC at this point. Certainly, nearly every one I’ve bought in the last 9-10 years has been NTSC. Granted, these have typically been music releases, but still.

I guess they just assume anyone that still wants a DVD must have an old analogue PAL tv.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

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schorman13 said:

No, it does not. “The Beginning” is not on the 2011 Blu Ray set at all. Keep your 2001 DVD.

Oh jeez. Thanks! The DVD is PAL so I’m thinking I’ll grab an NTSC copy (hate pitch shift etc.)

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schorman13 said:

No, it does not. “The Beginning” is not on the 2011 Blu Ray set at all. Keep your 2001.

Also, I wanted to mention to any collectors out there, the UK 9 DVD set is PAL, rather than NTSC. I was under the impression that even European DVDs were being made NTSC at this point. Certainly, nearly every one I’ve bought in the last 9-10 years has been NTSC. Granted, these have typically been music releases, but still.

I guess they just assume anyone that still wants a DVD must have an old analogue PAL tv.

Do you happen to know if Anatomy Of A Dewback has this dumb letter-and-pillar-boxing issue on the 2011 set as it does on the 2020 set? It was one of the main things I wanted to watch in at least semi-respectable quality since I only ever knew it as a crappy web stream from a time before the internet actually worked for video…

EDIT: Screw it, I’ll grab one on eBay and find out. Half the documentaries aren’t in the new set anyway.

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It’s been so long since I’ve been able to come here, and the release of the this mammoth set was the best catalyst to do so. Here in Aus we’re being told (at this time) one of our largest retailers in electronic goods has exclusivity to the 27-disc set. Meh, I’m sure that’s time-based.

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/products/star-wars-the-skywalker-saga-limited-edition-2020-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray

Disappointed to read what adywan has reported. Between all those big companies over the years I cannot understand how not one of them can ever make a Star Wars release that meets quality control.

The consensus seems to be mixed here. My issue is that with local currency it works out to $AUD 44.00 or so per movie.
Even though that includes both a BD and 4k copy, that is still quite steep.

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at D+ is empire of dreams available.
is this in real hd or upscaled?

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benduwan said:

at D+ is empire of dreams available.
is this in real hd or upscaled?

I was watching it the other day. I’m not positive but kinda looked like an upscale to me.

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adywan said:

benduwan said:

at D+ is empire of dreams available.
is this in real hd or upscaled?

Parts are upscale , parts in HD. This is the new version that was done a while back for HDTV. They asked Lucasfilm if they could have the footage they used in HD and they refused, so those parts had to be upscaled. Most of the “talking head” footage is HD though.

Is this because they didn’t want to share HD of unaltered shots?

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

adywan said:

benduwan said:

at D+ is empire of dreams available.
is this in real hd or upscaled?

Parts are upscale , parts in HD. This is the new version that was done a while back for HDTV. They asked Lucasfilm if they could have the footage they used in HD and they refused, so those parts had to be upscaled. Most of the “talking head” footage is HD though.

Is this because they didn’t want to share HD of unaltered shots?

Most likely.

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Out of curiosity i checked the “new” Episode IV release here in Germany. I don’t wanted to spend too much money on it so i ended up just buying the DVD. I can confirm it is the 2019SE and not just a repackaged 2011SE. I did a rough scene hopping. The colours look great so far. But the Battle of Yavin has some serious color issues. The death star lasers look dull and awkward blue hues appear everywhere.

Besides that the german audio track has some problems. The nice klicking sound when Leia sticks the death star plans into R2 was replaced with a rubber-falls-on-the-floor sound. And the radio chatter between the Y-Wings on their trench run is f***** up. Partially some words and letters are cut off / missing. Very annoying.

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
Being surrounded by yes men: the hallmark of a corrupt leader.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook

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Does Greedo say “Das Maclunkey”?

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

Does Greedo say “Das Maclunkey”?

No, he doesn’t 😉

Btw, my complaints about the color and sound issues were a little bit overexaggerated. I saw the movie again a few minutes ago and i’m mostly pleased with the picture and the sound for now.

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
Being surrounded by yes men: the hallmark of a corrupt leader.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook

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benduwan said:

at D+ is empire of dreams available.
is this in real hd or upscaled?

have anyone download the d+ version and like to share?

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If the D+ “Empire of Dreams” documentary is upscale in parts and HD in parts, then would somebody be able to swap out the upscale scenes with fan edits like Harmy’s despecialized or the fan SW film preservations?
That was a really good, thorough SW documentary!
Even The Beginning documentary showed a lot about the production process (warts and all) of the Prequels unlike any SW documentaries in this new Disney sequel era.
The Beginning documentary would be better seen and preserved in HD, too.
More fun hobbies for SW fans to keep busy with!

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adywan said:
I was really hoping that these bonus features ported over from the old DVDs would be slightly better quality due to compression. I never expected them to be worse. Waste of bloody money. I only purchased the UHD box set for the features and EP 9, as i will never watch the prequels. I wish i’d gone with my original plan and cancelled the box set when i ordered months ago and waited for the individual episodes to be released on UHD over here.

EDIT: Just checked “Anatomy of a Dewback” & ROTS’s “Within a Minute” features and both are 4:3 , jaggedy mess letterbox, the same as “The Beginning” . But ROTS’s “The journey” is 16:9 anamorphic but still suffers with the interlacing jaggedy mess issues

I had a look at the old and new versions of ANATOMY OF A DEWBACK and THE BEGINNING. The former is on the 2011 box set and the latter is on the 2001 TPM DVD.

ANATOMY OF A DEWBACK:

Aspect ratios are both wrong, 4:3 with silly wee widescreen box in the middle, though the 2011 one has the frame more squished horizontally than the 2020 one does. The two encodes have different scanline arrangements (2011 is interlaced, 2020 uses interleaved fields); I’m wondering if that’s something to do with why 2020 one has significant interlacing artefacts, but 2011 doesn’t. They both have artefacts, I mean, but the 2020 one is much worse in places. There’s a bit around the 12 second mark where a rope is swinging about, bobbing up and down, and in the 2011 it seems VLC can de-interlaced it reasonably acceptably but the 2020 one just seems not to improve regardless of interlacing being on or off, which makes me think it’s the interleaved rather than interlaced video causing the issue to at least some extent.

anatomy-2011.jpg
anatomy-2020.jpg

THE BEGINNING:

Old NTSC DVD from 2001 is not exactly amazing but is 16:9 full widescreen (1.78:1) and can be deinterlaced reasonably well.

New Blu-ray from 2020 is an absolute jaggy nightmare, much worse than either version of Anatomy of a Dewback and worse than it appears even on YouTube. It’s also got the same stupid 4:3-with-16:9-inside-that aspect ratio like both versions of AoaD. Again, this has interleaved fields instead of standard interlaced field layout.

Notice the incredibly bad aliasing on the nose in the bottom screenshot here, for example:

beginning-2001.jpg
beginning-2020.jpg

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DrDre said:

I did a color correction for ANH in collaboration with Stotchy:

The aim here is to maintain a similar color palette, but with improved color dynamics.

Really nice. What did you do exactly?
Could you provide a LUT?

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doc_faustus said:

HD Numerique comparisons
https://www.hdnumerique.com/dossiers/822-test-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-star-wars-iv.html
https://www.hdnumerique.com/dossiers/823-test-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-star-wars-v.html
https://www.hdnumerique.com/dossiers/824-test-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-star-wars-vi.html

From these comparisons, it appears that the 2020 version of ESB has been cropped quite a bit from the 2011 version. Is this accurate?

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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NeverarGreat said:

doc_faustus said:

HD Numerique comparisons
https://www.hdnumerique.com/dossiers/822-test-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-star-wars-iv.html
https://www.hdnumerique.com/dossiers/823-test-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-star-wars-v.html
https://www.hdnumerique.com/dossiers/824-test-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-star-wars-vi.html

From these comparisons, it appears that the 2020 version of ESB has been cropped quite a bit from the 2011 version. Is this accurate?

Yes, i can confirm that the 2020 version of ESB is not only more cropped than the 2011 version, but also stretched horizontally, causing very heavy cropping to the sides of the frame. These screenshots are taken directly from the blu-rays:

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2468
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2469
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2470

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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adywan said:

Yes, i can confirm that the 2020 version of ESB is not only more cropped than the 2011 version, but also stretched horizontally, causing very heavy cropping to the sides of the frame. These screenshots are taken directly from the blu-rays:

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2468
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2469
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2470

Woah, always hated the heavy blue cast on the 2011 but they really went on the grey side for these Hoth scenes… If I recall correctly the theatrical was never that unsaturated? I’m relatively young and naive, so my eyes aren’t as well trained.
It seems darker as well… Adywan, is this the case? Was the 2011 just too bright to begin with?

SOLO: A Subtler Remaster of ‘The Bold One’
(My homeworld is Australia so be wary of timezones!)

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adywan said:

Yes, i can confirm that the 2020 version of ESB is not only more cropped than the 2011 version, but also stretched horizontally, causing very heavy cropping to the sides of the frame. These screenshots are taken directly from the blu-rays:

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2468
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2469
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/2470

What possible reason could there be to justify not only increased cropping of the image, but stretching?

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Is the 2020 version stretched, or the 2011 version squished?

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!