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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 58

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RogueLeader said:

Fam, George had a female protagonist in his story treatment for 7.

And I’m good with it. I liked VII a lot, I still like it! And Daisy Ridley!

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tobiwan1984 said:

EddieDean said:

tobiwan1984 said:

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

Get over it.

We’re in a fan edit thread. Not getting over things is the only way we can fix them. I think he should be allowed to criticize. Whether his criticisms are valid is another question, but you shouldn’t just try to shut him up like this.

In fairness, it’s not just that his criticisms are bad, but there’s no way to accomplish what he wants. In which case my suggestion is legitimately the best thing he can do.

You’re probably right. His criticisms do belong more in the rewrite thread.

Honestly, I think I can say whatever I want to say as long as I don’t offend anyone…

You’re welcome to think and say whatever you want, even if it does offend people, so long as it doesn’t break the rules. So by all means, you do you. However, since you mention offence-

I’m offended. You use the phrase ‘identity politics’ twice.

Identity politics is a political approach based on people prioritizing the concerns most relevant to their particular racial, religious, ethnic, sexual, social, cultural or other identity. It typically aims to reclaim greater self-determination and political freedom for marginalized groups through understanding each interest group’s distinctive nature and experiences of injustice.

Not one iota of that happens in Disney Star Wars, so I have to read from this that by ‘identity politics’ you mean you object to the prevalence and/or roles of women in these films.

I’ll say it again: Representation is not politics. Representation is not an agenda.

There are plenty of problems to have with these films. There are plenty of problems to have with the power Rey has without training. None of those problems come from the identities - gender or otherwise - of the characters. None of those problems come from the identities of the members of the production teams.

I’m making an assumption there so forgive me if I’ve interpreted your choice of words unfairly. But if not-

Strong women exist. Female characters who serve something other than male characters’ romantic subplot exist. They’re not a threat to you. Get over it.

See I didn’t do that not did anyone back in the old days write Leia running around calling males names.

https://youtu.be/5PT20MU6WXs

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I think Daisey Ridley did a great job with the character of Rey. She also appears to be a down to earth person in real life. In my opinion I think the main issue in the sequel trilogy was Rey’s character was missing real adversity. If she had her ass kicked by Kylo Ren at the end of Ep 7 I think that would have made huge difference in how the the character was perceived. She needed to be the underdog and relatable but it just felt like everything was handed to her. I understand she had conflict with her struggling to find a role model with her parents leaving her but she never really faced real adversity. But that just my thoughts each to their own.

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tobiwan1984 said:

EddieDean said:

tobiwan1984 said:

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

Get over it.

We’re in a fan edit thread. Not getting over things is the only way we can fix them. I think he should be allowed to criticize. Whether his criticisms are valid is another question, but you shouldn’t just try to shut him up like this.

In fairness, it’s not just that his criticisms are bad, but there’s no way to accomplish what he wants. In which case my suggestion is legitimately the best thing he can do.

You’re probably right. His criticisms do belong more in the rewrite thread.

Honestly, I think I can say whatever I want to say as long as I don’t offend anyone…

You’re welcome to think and say whatever you want, even if it does offend people, so long as it doesn’t break the rules. So by all means, you do you. However, since you mention offence-

I’m offended. You use the phrase ‘identity politics’ twice.

Identity politics is a political approach based on people prioritizing the concerns most relevant to their particular racial, religious, ethnic, sexual, social, cultural or other identity. It typically aims to reclaim greater self-determination and political freedom for marginalized groups through understanding each interest group’s distinctive nature and experiences of injustice.

Not one iota of that happens in Disney Star Wars, so I have to read from this that by ‘identity politics’ you mean you object to the prevalence and/or roles of women in these films.

I’ll say it again: Representation is not politics. Representation is not an agenda.

There are plenty of problems to have with these films. There are plenty of problems to have with the power Rey has without training. None of those problems come from the identities - gender or otherwise - of the characters. None of those problems come from the identities of the members of the production teams.

I’m making an assumption there so forgive me if I’ve interpreted your choice of words unfairly. But if not-

Strong women exist. Female characters who serve something other than male characters’ romantic subplot exist. They’re not a threat to you. Get over it.

I won’t say sorry, but I get the point. I don’t want to be political, it is Lucasfilm and Kennedy herself who went political with Episode VIII. To use a female hero was a choice that was clearly taken due to the fact that they wanted to push a more “progressive” approach to “representation”. As I said, I liked the choice for the characters and I like Daisy Ridley, she pulls it off apart from the issues in the screenplay, but that is not on her! The “Lesbian” kiss in TROS is identity politics it is there for “representation” and its only purpose is to alienate the audience. It is brief, I am not offended directly by it, but it serves no purpose and the scene is cut out in various countries and they knew this would happen.
And then we had Admiral Holdo, coming out of nowhere and her basic role was to criticize and dismiss Poe. She clearly was there to call all men idiots. See I didn’t do that not did anyone back in the old days write Leia running around calling males names.
But right, no politics on my behalf. To me the only thing important is that Rey needs to have a believable transition to being the super talented Jedi she is and making her a descendent of someone’s bloodline was the naturally easiest way to do so. But I object her being a Palpatine since Palpatine was designed to be the evil in the galaxy you could of course argue that the story choice in IX was radical and Rey turning the Palpatine bloodline to something good was at least interesting. To me it just feels off and again since Lucasfilm now declared her the daughter of a Palpatine clone and whatever they will stir up to undo the damage done with VIII to the fans I think the only choice that was again already given in VII was that she is in fact a Skywalker hidden because she was in danger because she needed to be the “last hope” to finally destroy the Sith / dark force users. This would rhyme far better than the Palpatine descendant thingy. It might have worked even better if Snoke would have just been the bad guy all along and maybe Trevorrow’s unmade IX would have been a far superior experience, but that is a lot of ifs.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I don’t want to alienate anyone here, maybe this whole line of discussion or ideas with Rey being Luke’s daughter has all been discussed to the end before here on the board and I just missed it or I am going into territory a lot of the users here just see no possibility of pulling it off in the editing which I understand as well.

And then again if everybody sticks to her being a nobody it is turning the Skywalker saga into absurdity because Ben’s role and impact was reduced to be thrown into the pit and bringing back Rey to life which has never been seen before in Star Wars and is again a deus ex machina. Ben is the hero in the end but we’re not supposed to feel that imho. Lucasfilm / Kennedy only want us to accept Rey as the hero of these nine films she saves the day, because Anakin, Luke an Ben were all unable to do it and were toxic males. And again that is not my way of thinking but that is what people like Johnson, Kennedy and Mr. Hidalgo were putting into Star Wars starting in about 2014. They brought the politics into Star Wars and we the fans need to take this out and bring back the fairy tale, the hero’s journey and the classical grand space opera feeling to it or what.

You’ve just been asked to stop with the political discussions in this thread - both in here and in PMs - and yet here you are - still continuing…

Have a week away from the site to work out why.

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tobiwan1984 said:

idir_hh said:

Frankly I think that if Rey was a well written character nobody would be talking about identity politics.

Exactly! At least for the most part!

He didn’t get it, did he…

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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Darth Sadifous said:

Gothamknight said:

NeverarGreat said:
But no, it’s a somewhat awkward shot of the twin suns for the third time, and a reused piece of music from TFA.

Hmm, what if “Broom Boy” was removed from TLJ and made the last scene of TROS . . . ?

(For me this might be easier, since I’m planning a 3-film mashup anyhow.)

I don’t have a problem with the final scene besides the absence of Ben (needs to be added w/ Luke and Leia), but I definitely think the broom boy could be re-purposed as saga finale, especially in an edit where Rey is no longer a Palpatine. It would ring home anyone can be a Jedi in the final frames of the saga.

The “Anyone can be a Jedi” thing was already shown multiple times in this franchise with the fact that every single other Jedi and Sith in this franchise (aside from the Skywalkers) already existed without an important family connection.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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idir_hh said:

This youtube edit I found is a concept for what an Anakin and Ben force ghost on Tatooine could look like.
https://youtu.be/BlnRy7g--tU

I don’t think Anakin should be there, Rey has no established relationship with him. So it should be just Luke, Leia, and Ben.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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I just saw that guy’s absolute meltdown in this thread. I retract anything positive I said about him.

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StarkillerAG said:

I just saw that guy’s absolute meltdown in this thread. I retract anything positive I said about him.

?

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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My hot take is that the sequel trilogy are the least political Star Wars movies that exist.

¯\(ツ)

EDIT: also counting ewok adventures

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FreezingTNT2 said:

StarkillerAG said:

I just saw that guy’s absolute meltdown in this thread. I retract anything positive I said about him.

?

I was referring to tobiwan1984. He had a complete politically charged meltdown earlier on in this thread.

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NFBisms said:

My hot take is that the sequel trilogy are the least political Star Wars movies that exist. ¯\(ツ)

Yeah, and that’s one of the problems I have with this trilogy. There’s almost no political context for anything that’s going on, so it just feels like a rehash.

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NFBisms said:

My hot take is that the sequel trilogy are the least political Star Wars movies that exist. ¯\(ツ)

I can’t believe Disney ruined my favourite franchise about anti-imperialist terrorist guerillas and fascist coups in corrupt pseudo-democratic oligarchies by bringing politics into it!

Seriously though, the entire of the Phantom Menace is about a false flag attack, and AOTC is all about how an authoritarian leader manufactures a fake enemy to seize additional power. The greedy Separatists, who’re willing to sell out to basically Satan himself in order to gain power and wealth, have such on-the-nose names as the “Corporate Alliance” and the “Trade Federation”. Their most prominent leader is named Nute Gunray.

EDIT: On topic, is there any mileage in making Rey’s return to Ajan Kloss during the victory celebration feel more bittersweet, like Frodo’s return to the Shire? She already shows up covered in blood and looking somewhat shell-shocked, but the music sells it as triumphant and the movie quickly cuts away to Jannah hitting on Lando.

EDIT 2: I love how JJ put the entire Resistance in the background of the scene of Leia stumbling, and then also made sure literally all of them land on that one Star Destroyer together, so that I can’t possibly move Leia’s death to Act 3.

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Maybe even similar to Harry Potter walking back through Hogwarts after the big battle.

idir_hh said:

Maybe change the colour correcting to Red, Mustafar.

I doubt it but maybe there’s a way to splice the Mustafar raid with the Kylo v. Vader fan film to make it seem like while he’s fighting that giant group he’s actually just envisioning taking down Vader?

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Lesser said:

Maybe even similar to Harry Potter walking back through Hogwarts after the big battle.

idir_hh said:

Maybe change the colour correcting to Red, Mustafar.

I doubt it but maybe there’s a way to splice the Mustafar raid with the Kylo v. Vader fan film to make it seem like while he’s fighting that giant group he’s actually just envisioning taking down Vader?

Maybe Vader is a projection of the Wayfinder? When Ren defeats him, he opens the casket and removes it?

There’s a post-credit scene in the fan film where Kylo is about to remove his helmet, so that would help with maintaining continuity.

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Cameron Samurai said:

Lesser said:

Maybe even similar to Harry Potter walking back through Hogwarts after the big battle.

idir_hh said:

Maybe change the colour correcting to Red, Mustafar.

I doubt it but maybe there’s a way to splice the Mustafar raid with the Kylo v. Vader fan film to make it seem like while he’s fighting that giant group he’s actually just envisioning taking down Vader?

Maybe Vader is a projection of the Wayfinder? When Ren defeats him, he opens the casket and removes it?

There’s a post-credit scene in the fan film where Kylo is about to remove his helmet, so that would help with maintaining continuity.

I like where this is going.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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Pacing wise I don’t think including the whole fight would work, I’m thinking more colour corrected flashes of Vader from the fan film saying Ben and other relevent dialogue like “come to me” etc when he touches the wayfinder. Could even get a shot of Kylo’s saber decapitating him in there.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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Didn’t hate myself enough to read that guy’s whole post but I thought is was funny that he said that Leia was never written as “running around calling males names.” It’s like these people have never watched these movies. Anyway, carry on.

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Somebody didn’t read his PM…

heil palpatine.

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idir_hh said:

Pacing wise I don’t think including the whole fight would work, I’m thinking more colour corrected flashes of Vader from the fan film saying Ben and other relevent dialogue like “come to me” etc when he touches the wayfinder. Could even get a shot of Kylo’s saber decapitating him in there.

Yes, it’d be more a ‘vanity vision’ for Kylo, it could mostly use the bits where Ben has the upper hand (maybe Vader’s force choke on him can stay, but not much else), as that’s what Kylo has in the opening raid. He gets stronger as the wayfinder calls to him/ultimately challenges him

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I think it would be better to avoid showing kylo with the mask in the vision so as to save it for later. Showing him using the cross guard would probably be sufficient.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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idir_hh said:

I think it would be better to avoid showing kylo with the mask in the vision so as to save it for later. Showing him using the cross guard would probably be sufficient.

Would the helmet be altered to reflect it’s state in the rest of the movie then if shots are being saved for later?

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No I meant it would be better if the helmet in the vision was not used at all in the film, instead using shots of kylo with his back to the camera and him using the cross guard.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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idir_hh said:

No I meant it would be better if the helmet in the vision was not used at all in the film, instead using shots of kylo with his back to the camera and him using the cross guard.

Gotcha, I misinterpreted the post.

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Here’s the original cue sheet from John William’s scoring from a longer cut of the movie circa 11/10/19 if anyone wants to take up what’s “missing” (or even the order of the scenes, which ended up being totally restructured for the first half of the movie):

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/31290-jwfan-exclusive-the-rise-of-skywalker-partial-cue-list-revealed/&do=findComment&comment=1686208

M=Reel (which equals to about 20 minutes each)