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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 22

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I’ve been thinking about if there’s a way to move the Exegol action to Coruscant. After all, it’s a pretty boring planet (like all planets in Abrams SW…which is strange, considering how striking Nibiru was in Star Trek Into Darkness), and having the action take place on Coruscant would tighten up the Saga nicely. That said, you’d have to radically restructure the film, since there’s no way the wild goose chase to Palpatine is gonna lead to the capital of the Galaxy. I’m thinking Kylo instead finds Palpatine on Endor (allowing us to feature RLM’s Ewok death cult) and takes him to a First Order stronghold where he spends the rest of the film. The Sith dagger’s inscriptions would lead group not the wayfinder, but to Palpatine himself, although they are too late. This is probably all too difficult to achieve and riddled with plot holes, now that I think about it, but the point stands:

We. Need. Coruscant!

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snooker said:

Snooker, you’re a wonderful human being!

Those are cool ideas Anakin, but definitely would be near impossible to achieve. I think the best we can do is show it briefly, like Snooker’s test image.

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I guess I’ve gotten overambitious after some promising tests with EBsynth.

On a different note. I think it might be best to remove the Ewok reaction shot. They look really weird, and it’s not really necessary, serving as a moment of nostalgia indulgence and nothing more (granted the whole scene kind of is). I think it could flow better with the rest of the scene, but at the same time, people might feel cheated if they only see their backs.

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I really love the imagery of Hux’s lightsaber seppuku, but given his role in the film, I suggest giving it to Pryde. You could just shoot it against a green screen and plop the head on top with EBsynth or something. It’d just be that one shot. You’d need context to suit it of course, but surely that can be sorted out using the arrival of the Resistance fleet.

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RogueLeader said:

I’m guessing they had to go with a look similar to TFA because of her scenes with Leia.

I keep seeing people say this but it’s definitely not true. I mean, first of all, I think there’s pretty much only one Leia moment in TROS that was originally filmed with Rey for TFA (the hug). But more importantly, something like that wouldn’t matter. The only thing they used from the deleted material was Carrie’s head, so the only thing that needed to match was the lighting. I mean, even Leia wasn’t wearing the same outfit.

While it would be difficult to change her outfit through the whole film, it would be interesting if at the end of the film she has a somewhat different look.

I think it would be cool to make her clothes half black/half white, just like you did with Obi-Wan’s in that test you did awhile back. It could also be symbolic of her acknowledging both the light and the darkness in her.

I would absolutely love this. I also had the thought that, when you see Rey light up her saber, instead of seeing hints of blue and green before it ignites, you see blue and red.

Ultimately both of these things would just be sort of subtle subtext, it would really be great if there was some way we could explicitly have her reconcile the light and the dark within her.

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I agree, Trevorrow’s script at least had a moment where Rey acknowledged how she would be a different Jedi, when she says to the Force ghosts, “Our master’s were wrong. I will not deny my anger and I will not reject my love.” I think generally that was on the right track. Jedi can’t shun their natural human emotions, they have to acknowledge their feelings and handle them appropriately.

I wish it could come from Rey, but the only ideas I can think of to make a more explicit way to get this concept across would be to either, a) Give Luke some kind of dialogue that is along those lines when he gives Rey her pep talk, or b) have one or more of the Force ghosts (Luke, Anakin, Ahsoka) say something to Rey along those lines. Maybe we could do both to reinforce that idea. I think it would definitely make sense for Luke to be the one to have came to this conclusion, and pass that truth onto Rey. We would just have to dig around for lines that would fit in well with this idea. There might be a lot more weight to this idea than them just telling her to “Rise, rise, rise” over and over again.

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RogueLeader said:

I agree, Trevorrow’s script at least had a moment where Rey acknowledged how she would be a different Jedi, when she says to the Force ghosts, “Our master’s were wrong. I will not deny my anger and I will not reject my love.” I think generally that was on the right track. Jedi can’t shun their natural human emotions, they have to acknowledge their feelings and handle them appropriately.

Besides whatever silliness he had about Kylo killing her parents and her kissing Poe, it seemed like his draft treated Rey far better, or at least gave her a story that was a more logical follow up to what came before. Shame.

I wish it could come from Rey, but the only ideas I can think of to make a more explicit way to get this concept across would be to either, a) Give Luke some kind of dialogue that is along those lines when he gives Rey her pep talk, or b) have one or more of the Force ghosts (Luke, Anakin, Ahsoka) say something to Rey along those lines. Maybe we could do both to reinforce that idea. I think it would definitely make sense for Luke to be the one to have came to this conclusion, and pass that truth onto Rey. We would just have to dig around for lines that would fit in well with this idea. There might be a lot more weight to this idea than them just telling her to “Rise, rise, rise” over and over again.

Yeah I was thinking you could add something in Luke’s pep talk, I remember a lot of his dialogue was offscreen (weird considering they reshot it). You probably could add something in the voices scene. That actually reminds me, I had the thought awhile back that perhaps you could even add the voices of people like Maul and Dooku? They were wronged by Palpatine as well. You could potentially make the argument that while Palpatine = pure evil, Maul and Dooku were more complex and didn’t see the dark side that way.

The one idea I had for Rey was to say something like “I’m the darkness and the light” right before she says “I’m all the Jedi.” Tricky though, to find the lines and then to make it seamless.

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Okay, this is making me think of something else.

Since the film has come out, I’ve been keeping a notepad of ideas of sort of “how I would have done it.” Silly, sure, but I’ve found it a healthy way to work through my feelings on the film.

One of the ideas I had, is that you could have accomplished something interesting if Kylo spoken to the ghost of Anakin. But, what if it wasn’t just Anakin, it went back and forth between Anakin and Vader, like in the TFA concept art? And Anakin/Vader talks about how both the darkness and the light lives within him, just as it does in Kylo, and that ultimately the choice is his to make.

So what if we have something like this when Kylo touches Vader’s mask? Make it a scene by itself. Kylo touches the mask, then we cut back and forth to ethereal images of Anakin and Vader fading in and out of black. Hopefully between the two versions there’d be enough dialogue to work with. You could then follow this scene with Kylo repairing his mask, as if the choice he’s made is the dark side (for now).

In my mind, what would have made this work well is if the ghost makes it clear Snoke is the one he had been previously talking to, but now he’s actually talking to his grandfather. With TROS, obviously it’s tricky because of the “every voice inside your head” line. Maybe just cut that?

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DominicCobb said:

Yeah I was thinking you could add something in Luke’s pep talk, I remember a lot of his dialogue was offscreen (weird considering they reshot it). You probably could add something in the voices scene. That actually reminds me, I had the thought awhile back that perhaps you could even add the voices of people like Maul and Dooku? They were wronged by Palpatine as well. You could potentially make the argument that while Palpatine = pure evil, Maul and Dooku were more complex and didn’t see the dark side that way.

This isn’t a bad idea. And since other Jedi that seemed to died normally seem to have “come back” from the netherworld like Qui-Gon did, I don’t think it is out of the question that former Sith could’ve been shown the light in the netherworld as well, although that might be confusing to the audience with no explanation. People might think the Jedi and Sith are arguing in her head like little angels and devils on her shoulder, if you’re not careful about their dialogue choices.

Some Force ghost line ideas -
Anakin: Love is essential to a Jedi’s life.
Yoda: Anger is a natural part of life.

Since the film has come out, I’ve been keeping a notepad of ideas of sort of “how I would have done it.” Silly, sure, but I’ve found it a healthy way to work through my feelings on the film.

Not silly. I started writing my own version of the film earlier this month, but when I go down that rabbit hole so far I try to bring it back to ideas that could be doable for a fan edit.

One of the ideas I had, is that you could have accomplished something interesting if Kylo spoken to the ghost of Anakin. But, what if it wasn’t just Anakin, it went back and forth between Anakin and Vader, like in the TFA concept art? And Anakin/Vader talks about how both the darkness and the light lives within him, just as it does in Kylo, and that ultimately the choice is his to make.

So what if we have something like this when Kylo touches Vader’s mask? Make it a scene by itself. Kylo touches the mask, then we cut back and forth to ethereal images of Anakin and Vader fading in and out of black. Hopefully between the two versions there’d be enough dialogue to work with. You could then follow this scene with Kylo repairing his mask, as if the choice he’s made is the dark side (for now).

In my mind, what would have made this work well is if the ghost makes it clear Snoke is the one he had been previously talking to, but now he’s actually talking to his grandfather. With TROS, obviously it’s tricky because of the “every voice inside your head” line. Maybe just cut that?

It’s very funny that you had this idea! I have mentioned before the idea of making the scene of Kylo touching the helmet a scene of its own, but last night I made a note that it could be a vision from a Force ghost. I had the thought that it could be Luke trying to show Ben the truth. Trevorrow’s script also had this idea of Luke’s ghost haunting Ben, which I liked since Luke in TLJ said “See you around, kid” but we never get a pay off to that in TROS. But in his version, it feels like Luke has given up on Ben, but I like the idea that Luke is trying to right his own wrongs by doing what he can to help him still.

My idea was that Kylo connects with the helmet to try and confirm what Palpatine told him. So we could see flashes that could hint to how Palpatine survived and manipulated Ben his whole life. Maybe it could start out more like a dark side vision from Palpatine, but then Luke/Anakin/Old Ben take(s) control and try to show Ben the truth. The content of the vision is still kind of nebulous in my head, though. But it could be a good opportunity to help show that Ben is in opposition with Palpatine, something I really want to do. I want to make Kylo seem more aware that Palpatine is up to something, and is trying to figure out how to go against his plans rather than follow them.

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That’s a fun idea. It would be nice to see some sort of payoff to Luke’s line. I think in JJ’s mind the flashes sort of conveyed this (we see Han’s death still haunting Kylo, as well as visions of Luke, which sort of ties in with Luke saying he’ll always be there just like his father), but in reality the flashes are so quick they accomplish next to nothing, I think.

One thing I’d be worried about would be getting too bogged down trying to show Palpatine’s survival, but if there’s a way to make a sequence to show a further division between Kylo and Palpatine, great.

I already plan to change the dialogue in the scene where Palpatine talks on the phone with Palps, which feels very much like a slip back into ‘Kylo reporting to his master’ territory. I think I know how I’d like it to go, but I’d need to see the scene/dialogue again so I can say exactly how I’d change it. But in the most general sense the idea would be for Kylo to push back against the order to kill Rey and for the scene to end on Palpatine’s “Do not make me turn my fleet against you.”

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Yeah, I think it would be hard to really show enough that would be a satisfying answer to that question, I just thought it could be the initial motivation for why Kylo connects with Vader’s helmet.

I had totally forgot about that scene between them. That definitely would need to be changed, but like you said, if you can change it appropriately it could help show the two villains at odds. I think another scene I would like to change somewhat is the First Order meeting.
These scene goes like this:

First Order Officer Quinn speaks up, dismissing the Sith Eternal as “a cult, conjurers and soothsayers.” Pryde refutes these concerns, stating that the resources of the First Order will be increased ten thousand fold by the incorporation of the Sith fleet into their own ranks. With a spiteful glance at a glowering Hux, Pryde notes that the influence of this ancient power will “correct the error of Starkiller Base.” Unconvinced, Quinn wonders aloud if the ships are truly a gift, and what Palpatine might demand in return. In response, Ren brutally chokes the general through the Force and lifts his body to the ceiling. The fallen Jedi then commands his officers to prepare to crush any worlds that will defy the Order, and that he and his acolytes will be hunting the scavenger.

Why Kylo chokes that guy makes so little sense to me. If anything, he probably agrees with Quinn more than anyone else in that room. He’s probably bringing up points that Kylo has already thought about. Like you said, I’ll have to go back and watch it again, but I would really like to be able to end this scene without Kylo choking that officer.

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Since the film has come out, I’ve been keeping a notepad of ideas of sort of “how I would have done it.” Silly, sure, but I’ve found it a healthy way to work through my feelings on the film.

If that’s what works for you, more power to you. To me straying beyond what is reasonably doable is simply frustrating because I know it will never happen.

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RogueLeader said:

Yeah, I think it would be hard to really show enough that would be a satisfying answer to that question, I just thought it could be the initial motivation for why Kylo connects with Vader’s helmet.

I had totally forgot about that scene between them. That definitely would need to be changed, but like you said, if you can change it appropriately it could help show the two villains at odds. I think another scene I would like to change somewhat is the First Order meeting.
These scene goes like this:

First Order Officer Quinn speaks up, dismissing the Sith Eternal as “a cult, conjurers and soothsayers.” Pryde refutes these concerns, stating that the resources of the First Order will be increased ten thousand fold by the incorporation of the Sith fleet into their own ranks. With a spiteful glance at a glowering Hux, Pryde notes that the influence of this ancient power will “correct the error of Starkiller Base.” Unconvinced, Quinn wonders aloud if the ships are truly a gift, and what Palpatine might demand in return. In response, Ren brutally chokes the general through the Force and lifts his body to the ceiling. The fallen Jedi then commands his officers to prepare to crush any worlds that will defy the Order, and that he and his acolytes will be hunting the scavenger.

Why Kylo chokes that guy makes so little sense to me. If anything, he probably agrees with Quinn more than anyone else in that room. He’s probably bringing up points that Kylo has already thought about. Like you said, I’ll have to go back and watch it again, but I would really like to be able to end this scene without Kylo choking that officer.

I think the only way to square it is that he’s saying something Kylo knows but is upset by. Like, Kylo doesn’t want to join up with Palpatine but he feels he has to. Asking what Palpatine wants in return sets him off because it’s “kill Rey,” which he doesn’t want to do and he doesn’t want to admit it.

That said, the scene, like any with the mask, is a good candidate for dialogue replacement. I’m just not sure what.

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Speaking of what Palpatine wants, I also think Palpatine’s motivations need to be changed.

If Palpatine was Snoke, presumably, then Palpatine already knows that Kylo won’t kill Rey. And Kylo would also know that Palpatine knows that. If Palpatine as Snoke couldn’t get Kylo to kill her, then this guy Kylo just met definitely won’t. If Palpatine asked Kylo to bring Rey to him, it might be something more reasonable for him to ask. Then you could use Kylo’s masked dialogue to fill in that gap of why Palpatine wants him to bring Rey there. Maybe it is to kill her himself, maybe he tries to convince Kylo that he can help turn her to the dark side, or maybe he never tells him why and the truth is that he knows about the dyad and needs them both there to drain their power.

Whatever the reason, I think Kylo would look smarter if he knows it is probably a trap, and his goal is to find Rey and keep her from reaching Exegol, because he knows that is exactly what Palpatine wants.

EDIT: I suppose my motivation for this is that I still want to keep this idea that Kylo has overcome what Vader couldn’t to some extent. Vader was a pawn of the Emperor up until he threw him down that reactor shaft. I think Kylo Ren should stop being Palpatine’s pawn when he kills Snoke. So even though Palpatine is “alive”, Kylo sees past Palpatine’s machinations and tries to work against them. I think this would help keep Kylo’s character regressing too much from where we left him in TLJ.

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RogueLeader said:

Speaking of what Palpatine wants, I also think Palpatine’s motivations need to be changed.

If Palpatine was Snoke, presumably, then Palpatine already knows that Kylo won’t kill Rey. And Kylo would also know that Palpatine knows that. If Palpatine as Snoke couldn’t get Kylo to kill her, then this guy Kylo just met definitely won’t. If Palpatine asked Kylo to bring Rey to him, it might be something more reasonable for him to ask. Then you could use Kylo’s masked dialogue to fill in that gap of why Palpatine wants him to bring Rey there. Maybe it is to kill her himself, maybe he tries to convince Kylo that he can help turn her to the dark side, or maybe he never tells him why and the truth is that he knows about the dyad and needs them both there to drain their power.

Whatever the reason, I think Kylo would look smarter if he knows it is probably a trap, and his goal is to find Rey and keep her from reaching Exegol, because he knows that is exactly what Palpatine wants.

EDIT: I suppose my motivation for this is that I still want to keep this idea that Kylo has overcome what Vader couldn’t to some extent. Vader was a pawn of the Emperor up until he threw him down that reactor shaft. I think Kylo Ren should stop being Palpatine’s pawn when he kills Snoke. So even though Palpatine is “alive”, Kylo sees past Palpatine’s machinations and tries to work against them. I think this would help keep Kylo’s character regressing too much from where we left him in TLJ.

Perhaps in the fanedit, you set up through the crawl that Snoke was one of Palpatine’s pawns or apprentices (Like Maul, Dooku and Vader) and now Kylo has destroyed his apprentice and impressed Palpatine. This way, Snoke isn’t a meat puppet and somewhat autonomous of Palpatine. You could still leave the line that Palpatine created Snoke, but now it is more metaphorical and just cut the vat of cloned Snokes. Also it solves the problem you were talking about, as Palpatine may not know exactly how Snoke was defeated in his throne room and Kylo’s conflicting feelings with Rey. It just seems a lot cleaner to me than Palpatine creating Snoke and literally controlling him.

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Also has anyone here seen the new SNL skit with Adam Driver reprising his role as Kylo? There are a few shots of a maskless Kylo with a goatee, but in full Kylo Ren garb. I was thinking through editing these could maybe be used as pick up shots in the beginning of the film and have Kylo telepathically commune with someone (Palpatine, Luke, Rey, Anakin, etc.) It just gives him another look and sells time passing/ maybe he looks a little unkempt as he is obsessed with finding Exegol/Palpatine. Just an idea, don’t know how feasible that would be with editing.

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Darth Sadifous said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of what Palpatine wants, I also think Palpatine’s motivations need to be changed.

If Palpatine was Snoke, presumably, then Palpatine already knows that Kylo won’t kill Rey. And Kylo would also know that Palpatine knows that. If Palpatine as Snoke couldn’t get Kylo to kill her, then this guy Kylo just met definitely won’t. If Palpatine asked Kylo to bring Rey to him, it might be something more reasonable for him to ask. Then you could use Kylo’s masked dialogue to fill in that gap of why Palpatine wants him to bring Rey there. Maybe it is to kill her himself, maybe he tries to convince Kylo that he can help turn her to the dark side, or maybe he never tells him why and the truth is that he knows about the dyad and needs them both there to drain their power.

Whatever the reason, I think Kylo would look smarter if he knows it is probably a trap, and his goal is to find Rey and keep her from reaching Exegol, because he knows that is exactly what Palpatine wants.

EDIT: I suppose my motivation for this is that I still want to keep this idea that Kylo has overcome what Vader couldn’t to some extent. Vader was a pawn of the Emperor up until he threw him down that reactor shaft. I think Kylo Ren should stop being Palpatine’s pawn when he kills Snoke. So even though Palpatine is “alive”, Kylo sees past Palpatine’s machinations and tries to work against them. I think this would help keep Kylo’s character regressing too much from where we left him in TLJ.

Perhaps in the fanedit, you set up through the crawl that Snoke was one of Palpatine’s pawns or apprentices (Like Maul, Dooku and Vader) and now Kylo has destroyed his apprentice and impressed Palpatine. This way, Snoke isn’t a meat puppet and somewhat autonomous of Palpatine. You could still leave the line that Palpatine created Snoke, but now it is more metaphorical and just cut the vat of cloned Snokes. Also it solves the problem you were talking about, as Palpatine may not know exactly how Snoke was defeated in his throne room and Kylo’s conflicting feelings with Rey. It just seems a lot cleaner to me than Palpatine creating Snoke and literally controlling him.

Mentioning that Snoke is a pawn in the crawl is redundant. Simply cutting out the jar of Snokes would lead the viewer to assume such (give or take how they interpret “made”).

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Ok,so I have been dealing a lot with this movie lately.

First of all, we of course don’t have all the deleted scenes available yet. But I have a feeling that Disney is not gonna release a ton (contrary to TLJ) because I feel like JJ’s heart is not so much into the idea of deleted scenes and “what if’s”, such as Rian.
Also, at this point after all the #JJCut controversy and the leaks concerning #DuelOfTheFates I think that Disney is going to do a bit of damage control by trying to change the narrative to “This was the movie we planned all along. Therefore, we don’t have deleted scenes, etc.” That’s very unfortunate because this movie’s biggest flaws (aside from the #ReyPalpatine and #PalpatneIsBack stuff is the pacing and the entire structure.

Pacing:
Without deleted scenes you can only do so much like cut stuff out to fix the pacing. But I don’t think that’s what we really want because it would shrink the movie down even more so. It just wouldn’t feel “right” to have a big finale closing off the entire saga running at 2h or less. Btw. I’m still baffled why they announced weeks prior that TROS was suppose to be the longest Star Wars movie yet (running at approx 155 min https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/10/approximate-runtime-revealed-the-rise-of-skywalker.html) and what we got was actually shorter than TLJ by over 10 min.

Structure:
Here we can do something for sure.

  1. What always bothered me about the movie was that we know within the first 5 minutes of the film not only that Palpatine is back, but where exactly he is. So where is the point of us going on a fetch quest with our heroes, when we already know what they gonna find and where they gonna find it? That’s why the movie lacks suspense. So we need to shift the Kylo Ren scenes on Exogol around a little bit. I don’t know how yet, but that’s kind of a biggie for me at least.

  2. Same with the Chewie “death”. So he dies apparently and 2 minutes later we know he is alive. Ok cool. But why then do we need to spend another 20 minutes with our heroes dealing with his death, when we ALREADY know that he is alive? I think that can be fixed rather easily by shifting some of the First Order scenes around.

  3. This goes along with (1). Maybe we can shift the Palpatine reveal with Kylo towards to middle somewhere, so to create a build up towards Palpatine. The crawls needs to be changed (goes without saying) and RIGHT AFTER the crawl we could start with the #FortniteMessage by Palpatine. Or Maybe start with Rey’s training sequence and shortly after incorporate the #FortniteMessage into another scene or create a montage of a few planets while the message is being voiced over. So like the entire Galaxy was listening?

Other changes:

  1. I think we should keep C3PO’s mind-bank whiped. Cut out the scene with R2D2 restoring his mind.

  2. Cut out the entire Chewie Medal scene and Leia handing it to Maz.

  3. Cut out the Lando-Janah bit.

  4. Cut all the scenes with Finn trying to tell Rey the “thing”.

  5. Cut or change the scene where Palpatine shoots the force lightning into the sky. Maybe it’s just me, but it feels strangely silly and OP.

  6. Cut/change the dagger scene in front of the Death Star. Very very silly

  7. Cut the laser shot by the Star Destroyer destroying the planet. I mean, enough with super-duper-weapons!

  8. Not sure how to fix this, but the #HuxSpy subplot is just ugh! I don’t want Hux to be cut out, but man!

  9. Rey Palpatine: This is by far the worst part of the movie for me. I think we all agree it undermines everything set up in TLJ. Therefore, maybe we can find a way to change the dialogue by assembling snippets from other media recorded by the actors like #LegoTheForceAwakens maybe? The scenes that would require changes would be the Kylo-Rey scene on the Star destroyer and 1 or 2 lines during the Palpatine-Rey finale on Exogol.

btw. I’m ok with all the #Reylo stuff and how Kylo Ren dies. Never understood why people hate it so much. Ben sacrifices himself for Rey. A Skywalker sacrificing his bloodline to save the life of a “nobody” (well, in a universe where #ReyPalpatine doesn’t exist). Sacrificing himself for someone who has proven himself righteous and saved the galaxy from doom. There’s nothing more honorable than that! Am I wrong??

Puh! Ok that’s it for now.
This movie has PROBLEMS! I think this project may be the biggest one yet because it has the biggest plot problems of all the Star Wars movies in my opinion. It also seems “rushed” like no other SW film, obviously, since JJ only had about 2 years to do it -__-

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babajaga said:

  1. What always bothered me about the movie was that we know within the first 5 minutes of the film not only that Palpatine is back, but where exactly he is. So where is the point of us going on a fetch quest with our heroes, when we already know what they gonna find and where they gonna find it? That’s why the movie lacks suspense. So we need to shift the Kylo Ren scenes on Exogol around a little bit. I don’t know how yet, but that’s kind of a biggie for me at least.

  2. This goes along with (1). Maybe we can shift the Palpatine reveal with Kylo towards to middle somewhere, so to create a build up towards Palpatine. The crawls needs to be changed (goes without saying) and RIGHT AFTER the crawl we could start with the #FortniteMessage by Palpatine. Or Maybe start with Rey’s training sequence and shortly after incorporate the #FortniteMessage into another scene or create a montage of a few planets while the message is being voiced over. So like the entire Galaxy was listening?

If we get the extended Mustafar scene (one can hope), we can intertwine Rey and the gangs search for Palpatine’s wayfinder with Kylo’s search for Vader’s wayfinder and him ultimately getting to exogol first. He finds Palpatine and is told to bring Rey to him(rogues idea) so they can rule the new empire as empress and emperor. This should probably be placed before the kijimi sequence where kylo informs Rey of her True heritage.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Darth Sadifous said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of what Palpatine wants, I also think Palpatine’s motivations need to be changed.

If Palpatine was Snoke, presumably, then Palpatine already knows that Kylo won’t kill Rey. And Kylo would also know that Palpatine knows that. If Palpatine as Snoke couldn’t get Kylo to kill her, then this guy Kylo just met definitely won’t. If Palpatine asked Kylo to bring Rey to him, it might be something more reasonable for him to ask. Then you could use Kylo’s masked dialogue to fill in that gap of why Palpatine wants him to bring Rey there. Maybe it is to kill her himself, maybe he tries to convince Kylo that he can help turn her to the dark side, or maybe he never tells him why and the truth is that he knows about the dyad and needs them both there to drain their power.

Whatever the reason, I think Kylo would look smarter if he knows it is probably a trap, and his goal is to find Rey and keep her from reaching Exegol, because he knows that is exactly what Palpatine wants.

EDIT: I suppose my motivation for this is that I still want to keep this idea that Kylo has overcome what Vader couldn’t to some extent. Vader was a pawn of the Emperor up until he threw him down that reactor shaft. I think Kylo Ren should stop being Palpatine’s pawn when he kills Snoke. So even though Palpatine is “alive”, Kylo sees past Palpatine’s machinations and tries to work against them. I think this would help keep Kylo’s character regressing too much from where we left him in TLJ.

Perhaps in the fanedit, you set up through the crawl that Snoke was one of Palpatine’s pawns or apprentices (Like Maul, Dooku and Vader) and now Kylo has destroyed his apprentice and impressed Palpatine. This way, Snoke isn’t a meat puppet and somewhat autonomous of Palpatine. You could still leave the line that Palpatine created Snoke, but now it is more metaphorical and just cut the vat of cloned Snokes. Also it solves the problem you were talking about, as Palpatine may not know exactly how Snoke was defeated in his throne room and Kylo’s conflicting feelings with Rey. It just seems a lot cleaner to me than Palpatine creating Snoke and literally controlling him.

Mentioning that Snoke is a pawn in the crawl is redundant. Simply cutting out the jar of Snokes would lead the viewer to assume such (give or take how they interpret “made”).

Perhaps, but I do not think it is clear at all in the original cut of the film what the dynamic is exactly between Snoke and Palpatine. I still don’t know if Palpatine was directly controlling him and he was simply a “meat puppet” or autonomous like the clones in the prequels. I feel like him being an apprentice would be a nice call back to the prequels too. It’s just an idea. However where you see redundancy, I see clarity.

Plus I think it helps solve the problem I have with Snoke bridging Kylo and Rey’s minds and then Palpatine being shocked they are a dyad in the force. Also why would Palpatine tell Kylo to kill Rey if he was witness to Kylo and Rey’s takedown of Snoke and his guards?

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Kylo says at the end of TLJ that he will “destroy” Rey. So I’m not sure if there’s any discrepancy, regardless of whether Snoke was a puppet or a pawn.

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What’s with all the hashtags, babajaga? You’re acting like an anime character.