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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 161

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I feel it does cheapen Rey’s arc.

The point is that her being Palps’ granddaughter is to set up the lowest point for her at the end of Act II, when she exiles herself under the belief that her being Palps’ granddaughter means she is meant to turn to the dark side, until Luke has that pep talk with her. Undoing that is like revealing Owen and Beru were alive all along which would ruin Luke’s arc.

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I think you would be better off replacing it with a different, legitimate explanation, rather than something that turns out to be a lie in the third act. Whether it be that Kylo reveals he or Palpatine also saw the vision of Rey on the dark throne, that she actually killed her parents, etc.

Also, how would you reveal to the audience that it was actually a lie? New dialogue from Palpatine?

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Another thing, I don’t think Palpatine confessing to his lies is really in-character for him. Seriously, he lied to Anakin in RotS about a way to save Padmé.

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He also lied and spread false intel to the Rebels that Death Star 2.0 wasn’t operational. And then he started boasting to Luke that “I lied! We’re up and running! *pew pew pew*!”

Yeah, it would have to be new dialogue. Although I don’t know if any lines like that already exist.

EDIT: I guess, yeah, it doesn’t change the internal journey Rey goes on to renounce the Dark Side; but I feel like I’d still be a little disappointed, as an audience member, if I just watched all of that and then Palps was like, “Ha! Psych!” A good twist should recontextualize everything we’ve already seen, and I’m not sure that this one would.

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act on instinct said:

NeverarGreat said:

No, Palpatine did not need to be brought back. Returning the Big Bad just to knock him down again is the easy answer to the difficult question of how to bring peace to a galaxy fractured by war. It implies that the only thing truly wrong with the attempts at peace was one dude who was always behind everything and if he were to die everything would be all unicorns and rainbows.

In the end, it isn’t individual people who are a threat to peace, not really. It is much more the systems that subvert democracy and the twisted incentives prioritizing armed conflict over negotiation. TLJ was on the right track with this necessary argument, despite how poorly it was implemented. Palpatine’s return, along with his magic fleet, throws this necessary perspective in the garbage.

I don’t want to prolong a debate at its end but after reading what everyone had to say for 5 pages this is the comment that resonates with me most. I really hoped the ST would at least try to tackle this concept. Lucas himself was intrigued by the idea and I think it really expands the lore from all sides where each generation faces a unique environment, giving a fairly full and rounded summary of the stages of war and peace. Though much like the reality it isn’t so easy to figure out vs destroying a boogeyman, which isn’t an invitation to have no big bads or anything, just not zombie hitler.

I think this is the third time I’ve mentioned this on OT.com, but different threads every time so it’s the first time I’m mentioning it in this thread.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to use the Japanese Dubs to Blackened Mantle a new conflict for the ST. The idea being that the Rebel Alliance was an alliance between two factions: Old Republic aristocrats, Senators, wealthy and powerful elites, who found themselves on the outside of Palpatine’s coup on one side, and a populist faction made up of Outer Rim and Mid Rim citizens who suffered the hardest under the Empire.

Logically that’s what the Alliance should have been formed from, these two factions obviously should have existed since 1977 and these two factions should have opposing interests once the Empire was gone: One side wants to restore the Republic, the other wants to create an entirely new system. Because the Empire didn’t come from nowhere, it was the ultimate conclusion of the flaws of the Republic, and it’s not like the Republic was that great anyway. Many people on the populist side might have suffered under the Republic just as badly as under the Empire.

Civil war finally breaks out, although I would put this a year or more after Luke disappears, so that he doesn’t look like an asshole by directly causing a major galactic war. The First Order comes from the first faction and the Resistance comes from the populist faction. The Empire vs Rebels imagery is now commentary on the Republic, its loyalists, and those who want to restore it, as well as good real world commentary that I don’t want to get into too much lest I start another argument.

Luke would probably be a mediating force before the civil war, but once war breaks out, it’s obvious that Luke would side with the Resistance. Leia and Han both did, for one, but he grew up a backwater farmboy. That’s why the Resistance wants him to return and the First Order wants him to not do that.

If this was a rewrite and not a fanedit, I’d have Mon Mothma be the leader of the First Order. But maybe Hux is her son or something. Or maybe making an OT hero into a downright villain is a bad idea. Or maybe who cares since Mon Mothma’s in like one scene in RotJ.

Snoke would probably have to be something more than just some guy, though, because that doesn’t work well with this conflict. Maybe his dark side something something helps the First Order do something something, but I don’t know what. I don’t like the idea of Palpatine being alive past RotJ in any way, and the conflict doesn’t have room for him manipulating anything, so I’d say Snoke shouldn’t be involved with Palpatine. But who knows.

Issue is I have no idea where to get the Japanese dubs of the ST, or if they’re even as good as the dubs of the PT. So this is firmly in what-if land. I also have no idea how this would be executed.

Death of the Author

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SparkySywer said:

I think this is the third time I’ve mentioned this on OT.com, but different threads every time so it’s the first time I’m mentioning it in this thread.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to use the Japanese Dubs to Blackened Mantle a new conflict for the ST.

Issue is I have no idea where to get the Japanese dubs of the ST, or if they’re even as good as the dubs of the PT. So this is firmly in what-if land. I also have no idea how this would be executed.

edited after I realized I’d already said basically the same thing on another thread

I got my ST Japanese dubs from Region A blurays. They actually play perfectly fine in my regular bluray player, so they can still be useful after ripping. Picked up the three ST films, ROGUE ONE, and the 2015 Complete Saga set from cdjapan.com for about the same cost as full price retail. That would be my first recommendation.

And I think the Japanese dubs sound good across the saga.

“That’s not how the Force works!”

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EddieDean said:

I think TestingOutTheTest might be JJ Abrams.

Well he did say he obtained the original cuts of the OT through a fan source, so it’s totally possible he’s on OT. That said, I doubt he’d been a thread about re-editing his own movie.

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If we’re pointing fingers, (EDIT: we’re not).

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

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I know of some edits that hide Palpatine’s reveal until his first scene with Kylo Ren, even refusing to mention him in the opening crawl (Hal’s Ascendant, for example), but I just came up with an idea for any future edits that delay Palpatine’s reveal until he is first SHOWN to us…

Have Palpatine speak in the Sith language all the way until his repeat of his quote about the dark side from RotS. Of course, the “you have ever heard…” in Snoke’s voice and “inside your head…” in Vader’s voice are in regular English/Basic, and of course Kylo would respond in English/Basic and understand Palpatine speaking in the Sith language, he’s been taught in the dark side.

Thoughts?

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I’d be interested, but where would we even find audio of the Sith language? I can’t think of an instance of it being spoken in the movies. I guess KOTOR has a lot of alien voice lines, but I can’t remember any of them that sound like Palpatine.

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

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Ed Slushie said:

I’d be interested, but where would we even find audio of the Sith language? I can’t think of an instance of it being spoken in the movies. I guess KOTOR has a lot of alien voice lines, but I can’t remember any of them that sound like Palpatine.

Isn’t Movies Remastered in touch with this one guy online who can do an impression of Palps?

EDIT: Isn’t it Ian-Luke Production?

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Chase Adams said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

https://youtu.be/7ZPMW9xCZdk

It’s a great idea to convey that the helmet is saved, but with this new line most of Kylo’s anger is lost from the original.

I was actually somewhat confused why Kylo was so angry in that moment. Wouldn’t it be a good thing that she is in the bowels of HIS ship? She’s basically trapped.

EDIT: Context clip for those wondering: https://youtu.be/7ZPMW9xCZdk

Exsqueeze me.

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You could also potentially cut away before he walks off camera. That way we don’t see him leaving the helmet.

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I mostly did this for Antonio, the one who suggested this. I’m not deeply committed enough to this idea to try that lol. But when I heard this voice line I thought it was perfect for the situation, so I shared it thinking it could be a suitable replacement. But if we REALLY want Kylo to be angry there, then I guess we’ll just call it quits.

RogueLeader said:

I actually went back through parts of the film recently and took some notes regarding potential dialogue changes, so I’d be interested in joining the discussion over on that thread.

What were you proposing?

Exsqueeze me.

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Here are some of the ideas I had written down.

Some thoughts on the Kijimi sequence: Kijimi in Revolt, 3PO’s Irreversible Sacrifice, and Poe’s Past.

  • Add details to Kijimi to establish that it is revolting.
  • Add graffiti to one of the walls of the Kijimi streets. Rebel symbol, crossed-out stormtrooper helmet, or Luke posing like the original Star Wars poster, with lightsaber overhead.
  • While they’re sneaking around, add civilian protest shouts in the distance, maybe something like, “For Skywalker!” Maybe then we could hear blaster shots or an explosion.
  • When Zori says, “I’m still digging myself out of the whole you put me in when you left to join the Resistance”, cut “-to join the Resistance”, or “-when you left to join the Resistance”. This gives us more ambiguity so people can interpret the situation in different ways. 1) The canon explanation, where Poe left to join the New Republic, which he was a part of before he joined the Resistance. 2) Maybe Poe only worked as a spice runner undercover as a Republic operative, and messed up their operations during his mission.
  • Or, have Zori say, “I’m still digging myself out of the whole you put me in when I left the Resistance”, which would help explain why Zori knows the “more of us” phrase that Lando uses later, implying it is some kind of Rebel phrase, and why she flies a Y-Wing at the battle of Exegol. It would also nicely parallel Finn bringing in ex-stormtroopers into the fight. Doesn’t explain why Poe used to be a spice runner, but those references could potentially be cut.
  • When Rey whips out her lightsaber, add offscreen dialogue of Zori’s awestruck crew saying, “Jedi!”, or “The Jedi!” Maybe Zori and her crew just thought she was a “scavenger” at first. But when they realize she’s a Jedi, Zori becomes more willing to work with them. It gives more of a reason as to why she thinks Rey is “okay”, and why she goes from pointing a gun at Poe’s head, to helping him, in 30 seconds flat.
  • If C3PO’s memory is permanently deleted, cut Finn asking if R2 backs up 3PO’s memory, and 3PO’s response, but replace 3PO’s line, “Artoo’s storage unit is notoriously unreliable” with a different line so we can keep the shot of Rey contemplating. Maybe we can push C3PO’s line, “There must be some other way” to that shot, and completely cut the shot where Finn asks about R2 backing up his memory.
  • Cut 3PO saying, “I just had an idea of something else-“ before Babu turns him off. It kind of takes away a little bit from 3PO making this sacrifice. So maybe 3PO could say something like, “Tell R2 I-“ or “I have a bad feeling about-“
  • Cut Poe’s line’s about no one coming at the Battle of Crait, and everyone giving up. Maybe he could just say, “I can’t turn my back on this war. Not till it’s over. Maybe it is. Everyone’s so afraid(?). They’ve given up(?).” This might take some work to get the shots and music to still flow appropriately. I’m thinking cut everything after “Maybe it is” and put that line over the shot of Zori say, “No, I don’t believe you believe that”, but either cut “No” or change her line to just “You don’t believe that.”

Making the Dagger an Ancient Artifact

  • In order to make the dagger distinctly ancient, redub Red-Eyed 3PO to give a new translation of the dagger. Instead of giving the exact coordinates, the new translation instructs the wielder to hold the dagger and embrace the darkness it holds. If they accept this “test”, the dagger will show them the way.
  • Cut Finn saying, “The Endor system? Isn’t that where the last war ended?” This will be pushed to later. They don’t have time to react to the translation, because the First Order shows up.
  • After Rey senses the dagger on the ship, cut Poe asking why they need it, and Rey saying, “A feeling.” The new translation makes it clear that they need the dagger to find the Wayfinder.
  • When Rey picks up the dagger and stares at it, she begins hearing whispers/screams and eventually sees a quick glimpse of the Death Star ruins. Kylo Ren interrupts her right after this moment. (This would tie in well to the whispers guiding her to vault on the Death Star, as Ascendant currently has it.)
  • At the beginning of the scene with Rey and Finn fixing the Falcon, add a part of Finn’s earlier line, “The Endor system? Where the last war ended?” (Either sentence, both likely won’t fit). Rey continues “All that matters is finding the Wayfinder. Finding Exegol.” Adding the line here helps clarify that Rey told them about her vision of the Death Star after they regrouped, and now they are heading there.
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RogueLeader said:

When Rey whips out her lightsaber, add offscreen dialogue of Zori’s awestruck crew saying, “Jedi!”, or “The Jedi!” Maybe Zori and her crew just thought she was a “scavenger” at first. But when they realize she’s a Jedi, Zori becomes more willing to work with them. It gives more of a reason as to why she thinks Rey is “okay”, and why she goes from pointing a gun at Poe’s head, to helping him, in 30 seconds flat.

It’s already clear from the movie that Zorii only complemented Rey because she had a gun/lightsaber to her head.

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Haha, I was waiting for your response, Test. That’s fair. I don’t think it hurts to add more to it though.

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I would love if it was possible to redub the dagger translation to make it more ancient. Not sure anything could make it logical about Endor though.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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 (Edited)

RogueLeader said:

Here are some of the ideas I had written down.

Some thoughts on the Kijimi sequence: Kijimi in Revolt, 3PO’s Irreversible Sacrifice, and Poe’s Past.

  • Add details to Kijimi to establish that it is revolting.
  • Add graffiti to one of the walls of the Kijimi streets. Rebel symbol, crossed-out stormtrooper helmet, or Luke posing like the original Star Wars poster, with lightsaber overhead.
  • While they’re sneaking around, add civilian protest shouts in the distance, maybe something like, “For Skywalker!” Maybe then we could hear blaster shots or an explosion.
  • When Zori says, “I’m still digging myself out of the whole you put me in when you left to join the Resistance”, cut “-to join the Resistance”, or “-when you left to join the Resistance”. This gives us more ambiguity so people can interpret the situation in different ways. 1) The canon explanation, where Poe left to join the New Republic, which he was a part of before he joined the Resistance. 2) Maybe Poe only worked as a spice runner undercover as a Republic operative, and messed up their operations during his mission.
  • Or, have Zori say, “I’m still digging myself out of the whole you put me in when I left the Resistance”, which would help explain why Zori knows the “more of us” phrase that Lando uses later, implying it is some kind of Rebel phrase, and why she flies a Y-Wing at the battle of Exegol. It would also nicely parallel Finn bringing in ex-stormtroopers into the fight. Doesn’t explain why Poe used to be a spice runner, but those references could potentially be cut.
  • When Rey whips out her lightsaber, add offscreen dialogue of Zori’s awestruck crew saying, “Jedi!”, or “The Jedi!” Maybe Zori and her crew just thought she was a “scavenger” at first. But when they realize she’s a Jedi, Zori becomes more willing to work with them. It gives more of a reason as to why she thinks Rey is “okay”, and why she goes from pointing a gun at Poe’s head, to helping him, in 30 seconds flat.
  • If C3PO’s memory is permanently deleted, cut Finn asking if R2 backs up 3PO’s memory, and 3PO’s response, but replace 3PO’s line, “Artoo’s storage unit is notoriously unreliable” with a different line so we can keep the shot of Rey contemplating. Maybe we can push C3PO’s line, “There must be some other way” to that shot, and completely cut the shot where Finn asks about R2 backing up his memory.
  • Cut 3PO saying, “I just had an idea of something else-“ before Babu turns him off. It kind of takes away a little bit from 3PO making this sacrifice. So maybe 3PO could say something like, “Tell R2 I-“ or “I have a bad feeling about-“
  • Cut Poe’s line’s about no one coming at the Battle of Crait, and everyone giving up. Maybe he could just say, “I can’t turn my back on this war. Not till it’s over. Maybe it is. Everyone’s so afraid(?). They’ve given up(?).” This might take some work to get the shots and music to still flow appropriately. I’m thinking cut everything after “Maybe it is” and put that line over the shot of Zori say, “No, I don’t believe you believe that”, but either cut “No” or change her line to just “You don’t believe that.”

Making the Dagger an Ancient Artifact

  • In order to make the dagger distinctly ancient, redub Red-Eyed 3PO to give a new translation of the dagger. Instead of giving the exact coordinates, the new translation instructs the wielder to hold the dagger and embrace the darkness it holds. If they accept this “test”, the dagger will show them the way.
  • Cut Finn saying, “The Endor system? Isn’t that where the last war ended?” This will be pushed to later. They don’t have time to react to the translation, because the First Order shows up.
  • After Rey senses the dagger on the ship, cut Poe asking why they need it, and Rey saying, “A feeling.” The new translation makes it clear that they need the dagger to find the Wayfinder.
  • When Rey picks up the dagger and stares at it, she begins hearing whispers/screams and eventually sees a quick glimpse of the Death Star ruins. Kylo Ren interrupts her right after this moment. (This would tie in well to the whispers guiding her to vault on the Death Star, as Ascendant currently has it.)
  • At the beginning of the scene with Rey and Finn fixing the Falcon, add a part of Finn’s earlier line, “The Endor system? Where the last war ended?” (Either sentence, both likely won’t fit). Rey continues “All that matters is finding the Wayfinder. Finding Exegol.” Adding the line here helps clarify that Rey told them about her vision of the Death Star after they regrouped, and now they are heading there.

These are all interesting ideas. Kijimi being in revolt is a really good addition in my opinion, and I especially like the Rebel graffiti one, referencing the movie poster. The Dagger changes would really improve things as well, I reckon.

I personally like 3PO having a comedic line right as he’s deactivated; the contrast works for me. It’s a funny line, but also, it reminds us that 3PO is this unintentionally funny bumbling droid we like, and now he’s gone. I’m realising I like C-3PO being comedic in TROS than most people do, though, so your mileage may vary.

Also

  • Add details to Kijimi to establish that it is revolting.

Digitally insert trash all over the streets, open sewage lines, add insert shots of people pinching their noses when they go outdoors.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

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CaptainFaraday said:

These are all interesting ideas. Kijimi being in revolt is a really good addition in my opinion, and I especially like the Rebel graffiti one, referencing the movie poster. The Dagger changes would really improve things as well, I reckon.

Thanks. I think not only the dagger changes make it more mysterious, but I think it is interesting from a character perspective too, since Rey has to sort of embrace the dark side in order for her to find the Wayfinder. Any additions that make us doubt Rey’s ability to resist the darkness would be nice, I think.

I personally like 3PO having a comedic line right as he’s deactivated; the contrast works for me. It’s a funny line, but also, it reminds us that 3PO is this unintentionally funny bumbling droid we like, and now he’s gone. I’m realising I like C-3PO being comedic in TROS than most people do, though, so your mileage may vary.

I like comedic 3PO too! Maybe another funny line could be played around with? I’m just iffy on this one because it make it seem like 3PO is going back on his decision to make this sacrifice.

Also

  • Add details to Kijimi to establish that it is revolting.

Digitally insert trash all over the streets, open sewage lines, add insert shots of people pinching their noses when they go outdoors.

Lol, isn’t the English language awful?

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RogueLeader said:

Lol, isn’t the English language awful?

Hahahaha I have to admit RogueLeader, I seriously thought your idea was to make Kijimi that kind of revolting. 😆

George Lucas was the first Star Wars fan-editor.

My homeworld is Australia so be wary of timezones!