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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 160

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EddieDean said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

EddieDean said:

I think TestingOutTheTest might be JJ Abrams.

By this logic, I think anyone who defends TLJ is Rian Johnson. Not that I hate TLJ.

Do you not feel like the original, unedited version of TROS might be right for you?

There are some fan editing choices I agree with, but I feel the majority of criticisms are incorrect in the way many of you guys feel about TLJ’s criticisms.

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TestingOutTheTest said:

EddieDean said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

EddieDean said:

I think TestingOutTheTest might be JJ Abrams.

By this logic, I think anyone who defends TLJ is Rian Johnson. Not that I hate TLJ.

Do you not feel like the original, unedited version of TROS might be right for you?

There are some fan editing choices I agree with, but I feel the majority of criticisms are INCORRECT in the way many of you guys feel about TLJ’s criticisms.

Bolded and capitalised for emphasis. Opinions are subjective, buddy, there’s no correct or incorrect. Sometimes people are going to differ from you and all you can do in that situation is move on.

Since you feel like you disagree with the “majority” of criticisms from “many of you guys”, then perhaps you should put a thread together where you outline your opinions and use them as the basis for creating ideas for an edit, rather than the uphill struggle against this apparent majority who seem to broadly agree?

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joshuabri said:

All of this relentless back and forth doesn’t get us anywhere. It is fine and encouraged to state your opinions, but we’ll rarely, if ever, argue someone to our side. Nothing anyone is saying is wrong, it’s just that different story elements speak to each of us differently based on our own experiences. We have to accept that the story elements that we value most may not be as important to someone else. There is no “true” interpretation of the story or characters, just what they speak to us and our lives. Probably the best we can say is that a better developed and written trilogy might have had fewer offending elements to the fandom in general. Getting off my horse now.

I agree with this.

Although I will say that whatever George said in the past about Star Wars should be taken seriously at the very least. Unfortunately, he never really has commented on things such as Palpatine’s overarching role in the saga (as far as I’m aware).

Exsqueeze me.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

joshuabri said:

All of this relentless back and forth doesn’t get us anywhere. It is fine and encouraged to state your opinions, but we’ll rarely, if ever, argue someone to our side. Nothing anyone is saying is wrong, it’s just that different story elements speak to each of us differently based on our own experiences. We have to accept that the story elements that we value most may not be as important to someone else. There is no “true” interpretation of the story or characters, just what they speak to us and our lives. Probably the best we can say is that a better developed and written trilogy might have had fewer offending elements to the fandom in general. Getting off my horse now.

I agree with this.

Although I will say that whatever George said in the past about Star Wars should be taken seriously at the very least. Unfortunately, he never really has commented on things such as Palpatine’s overarching role in the saga (as far as I’m aware).

I don’t think I’ve read/heard anything, just that he represents the “pure evil” kind of thing. But did Lucas have a role for him past 6 … Nope.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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It’s kind of refreshing to get opinions from Chris Terrio someone who actually thought TROS worked, even if the tone is a bit condescending at times. Gives me hope that, one day, I’ll be able to enjoy it too.

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jarbear said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

joshuabri said:

All of this relentless back and forth doesn’t get us anywhere. It is fine and encouraged to state your opinions, but we’ll rarely, if ever, argue someone to our side. Nothing anyone is saying is wrong, it’s just that different story elements speak to each of us differently based on our own experiences. We have to accept that the story elements that we value most may not be as important to someone else. There is no “true” interpretation of the story or characters, just what they speak to us and our lives. Probably the best we can say is that a better developed and written trilogy might have had fewer offending elements to the fandom in general. Getting off my horse now.

I agree with this.

Although I will say that whatever George said in the past about Star Wars should be taken seriously at the very least. Unfortunately, he never really has commented on things such as Palpatine’s overarching role in the saga (as far as I’m aware).

I don’t think I’ve read/heard anything, just that he represents the “pure evil” kind of thing. But did Lucas have a role for him past 6 … Nope.

Only because he held the belief that the Sith, in their quest to attain immortal life, would be unable to achieve such a thing. He felt it would be best if only the Jedi would get it from being selfless. I agree with that sentiment, but the thing is that TROS makes it quite clear that Palpatine is experiencing a hellish existence for 30+ years. That’s not real immortality. It’s only when he drains the dyad that he is revitalized, and who knows if that new form would even last forever.

Furthermore, I find it ironic that George allegedly would have had Maul be the main villain of his sequels… when he is also a Sith that the audience would have always considered to be dead (unless you watched Clone Wars). As a result, I’d say he’s ok with a Sith living on as long as they’re miserable in that existence.

Exsqueeze me.

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To put it simply, TRoS is a soft reboot of TLJ, it walked back on everything TLJ did, it regressed the state of the characters and story to the way it was at the end of TFA and pushed them back into the old mold. I think the main divide comes from people who are frustrated at TRoS and want to minimize that walk back from TLJ as much as possible, and people who liked that TRoS went back to doing the same old stuff and don’t want to see it trimmed too much to gel better with the previous movie. The stance I can’t reconcile with is acting like TRoS is a perfectly fine continuation of TLJ and that it all makes perfect sense if you really think about it.

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Burbin said:

To put it simply, TRoS is a soft reboot of TLJ, it walked back on everything TLJ did, it regressed the state of the characters and story to the way it was at the end of TFA and pushed them back into the old mold. I think the main divide comes from people who are frustrated at TRoS and want to minimize that walk back from TLJ as much as possible, and people who liked that TRoS went back to doing the same old stuff and don’t want to see it trimmed too much to gel better with the previous movie. The stance I can’t reconcile with is acting like TRoS is a perfectly fine continuation of TLJ and that it all makes perfect sense if you really think about it.

No no no, it’s it all makes perfect sense if you DONT think about it. 😛 Sorry being cheeky, but I know exactly what you mean with this post.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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I mean, yeah, it wasn’t a good continuation of TLJ objectively speaking. Isn’t related at all to its ideas really. But was it a good continuation/finale of the sequels for me? Yes, because now I am actually able to go back and enjoy TLJ as well.

Exsqueeze me.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

I mean, yeah, it wasn’t a good continuation of TLJ objectively speaking. Isn’t related at all to its ideas really. But was it a good continuation/finale of the sequels for me? Yes, because now I am actually able to go back and enjoy TLJ as well.

Yeah as much as I dislike parts of TROS, none it feels like it retcons TLJ to me and TLJ still remains my favorite film by far.

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I disagree, I think it’s a bad finale for both the sequels and the saga, and it pretty much condemns TLJ to be seen as an odd momentary derailment instead of the step forwards it should’ve been. But we’re getting into subjective territory again.

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From a fan-editing perspective, I feel like I see two strong directions people tend to lean in.

  1. People who want to keep the gist of how TROS played. Just try to improve the movie that is there, even if you don’t agree with every decision.

  2. People who liked TLJ tend to hard disagree with TROS’ story decisions more, so they have a stronger inclination to change the film more drastically.

I think the community has done a great job with Ascendant, and imo, it will most likely be seen as the definitive edit that generally keeps most of the story decisions the same. There will eventually be a Rey Nobody version, but the main version keeps Rey Palpatine. The biggest divergence from canon in Ascendant is arguably Leia’s saber color. Since we already have a great edit almost complete that generally sticks with how TROS played out, I think that reason alone makes more drastic changes worth discussing. Changes like having Ben Solo live, or don’t have Palpatine “return” somehow. I actually think a “Solo Lives” alternate ending would be a great topic for EddieDean’s idea of monthly community-driven projects.

With that being said, I would still love to see suggestions for smaller changes that make TROS’ story decisions work better or make more sense.

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RogueLeader said:

From a fan-editing perspective, I feel like I see two strong directions people tend to lean in.

  1. People who want to keep the gist of how TROS played. Just try to improve the movie that is there, even if you don’t agree with every decision.

  2. People who liked TLJ tend to hard disagree with TROS’ story decisions more, so they have a stronger inclination to change the film more drastically.

Interesting, I loved TLJ but just want to touch up on TROS. The aim of my edit is too remain as close to canon as possible and just fix minor things in my eyes, so sometimes I think “why am I even bothering with an edit, like I’d rather just be okay with the theatrical cut that would be so much easier” but then I immediately remember how much some of the changes (Force ghosts behind Rey, Battle of the Heroes over the DSII duel, crackly saber, color correction, etc.) improve the movie for me lol

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If you follow the Ascendant thread, you’ll remember my very long comment regarding the geography of Ahch-To and how long Rey was canonically there:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/the-rise-of-skywalker-ascendant-released/id/71835/page/396#1415130

TLDR: Because of a filmmaking error regarding a “sunrise” actually being a sunset, the TROS novelization clarified that Rey actually arrived on the island in the evening and stayed overnight, leaving in the morning (I confirmed all of this with hefty research on the island’s locations, geography, maps, etc.) so my goal is to clarify this in the movie and actually make it fit canon better.

In my version, Rey arrives at dusk, Luke and her chat about fear, Leia, etc., Rey sleeps overnight, she wakes up in the morning, and leaves after Luke lifts the X-Wing.

So I’ve worked with Nev’s recolor of the scenes, inserted some island shots from TLJ along with a shot of Rey sleeping (zoomed in to hide her different outfit a bit), and reworked the Ajan Kloss scenes to further imply the sense of time passing. Ignore/mute the sound because I haven’t done anything with it yet, but here’s the mockup. The only thing I think needs some reworking still is the transition from Rey in the hut to D-O and Finn, which is a bit abrupt.

https://vimeo.com/529594742

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RogueLeader said:

From a fan-editing perspective, I feel like I see two strong directions people tend to lean in.

  1. People who want to keep the gist of how TROS played. Just try to improve the movie that is there, even if you don’t agree with every decision.

  2. People who liked TLJ tend to hard disagree with TROS’ story decisions more, so they have a stronger inclination to change the film more drastically.

I’m definitely in the second camp myself; but TROS just fails as its own movie, imo, let alone as a followup to TLJ, which I did love. Ret-cons like Rey Palpatine make me angry, to be sure; but there are so many places where the writing just utterly falls apart. Things like the stupid knife with the protractor, or the weird-ass plot point with the secondary navigation tower on Exegol. Why is Keri Russell in the movie? You could have just given the “You’re not alone” speech to Lando (Oh wait, they did do that, didn’t they? They had two different characters give Poe two different “You’re not alone” speeches.). Speaking of Lando, why has he spent the last 30 years hanging out on Pig Planet? Did Luke just abandon him there? Surely he wouldn’t want to stay?

The overaching plot doesn’t make any sense. Why did Palps announce his return rather than using the element of surprise? Why does he give himself an arbitrary 16 hour delay, when he proves that the fleet is ready to deploy whenever he feels like it? Why would Hux betray everything he believes in just because he dislikes a coworker? Why does Palps tell Kylo explicitly to kill Rey, when his whole plan depended on Rey magically finding her way to Exegol un-killed?

Then you add general story structure issues - the breakneck pace of the edit, the MacGuffins on MacGuffins on MacGuffins (“We need to find Ochi’s ship because it contains a clue that will lead to a doohickey that will give us a map that will lead us to Exegol!”), the fact that Kylo destroys the Prime MacGuffin, retroactively making the past hour we just spent looking for it pointless.

I’ve already discussed my issues with the muddled themes and the broken character arcs…

I really can’t think of any level on which this movie actually works. The fact that we’re getting even halfway decent fan edits out of it frankly blows my mind. This community is seriously talented.

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joshuabri said:

All of this relentless back and forth doesn’t get us anywhere. It is fine and encouraged to state your opinions, but we’ll rarely, if ever, argue someone to our side. Nothing anyone is saying is wrong, it’s just that different story elements speak to each of us differently based on our own experiences. We have to accept that the story elements that we value most may not be as important to someone else. There is no “true” interpretation of the story or characters, just what they speak to us and our lives. Probably the best we can say is that a better developed and written trilogy might have had fewer offending elements to the fandom in general. Getting off my horse now.

Yeah, something people keep forgetting is that these are fanediting threads, not opinion threads. If your unsolicited opinion has nothing to do with fanediting, don’t post it. If you don’t like someone’s opinion, don’t watch their fanedit. Take your arguments to the argument threads, because we have those.

Brewzter said:

https://vimeo.com/529594742

This is very well done!

Death of the Author

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SparkySywer said:

joshuabri said:

All of this relentless back and forth doesn’t get us anywhere. It is fine and encouraged to state your opinions, but we’ll rarely, if ever, argue someone to our side. Nothing anyone is saying is wrong, it’s just that different story elements speak to each of us differently based on our own experiences. We have to accept that the story elements that we value most may not be as important to someone else. There is no “true” interpretation of the story or characters, just what they speak to us and our lives. Probably the best we can say is that a better developed and written trilogy might have had fewer offending elements to the fandom in general. Getting off my horse now.

Yeah, something people keep forgetting is that these are fanediting threads, not opinion threads. If your unsolicited opinion has nothing to do with fanediting, don’t post it. If you don’t like someone’s opinion, don’t watch their fanedit. Take your arguments to the argument threads, because we have those.

Thank you.

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NeverarGreat said:

No, Palpatine did not need to be brought back. Returning the Big Bad just to knock him down again is the easy answer to the difficult question of how to bring peace to a galaxy fractured by war. It implies that the only thing truly wrong with the attempts at peace was one dude who was always behind everything and if he were to die everything would be all unicorns and rainbows.

In the end, it isn’t individual people who are a threat to peace, not really. It is much more the systems that subvert democracy and the twisted incentives prioritizing armed conflict over negotiation. TLJ was on the right track with this necessary argument, despite how poorly it was implemented. Palpatine’s return, along with his magic fleet, throws this necessary perspective in the garbage.

I don’t want to prolong a debate at its end but after reading what everyone had to say for 5 pages this is the comment that resonates with me most. I really hoped the ST would at least try to tackle this concept. Lucas himself was intrigued by the idea and I think it really expands the lore from all sides where each generation faces a unique environment, giving a fairly full and rounded summary of the stages of war and peace. Though much like the reality it isn’t so easy to figure out vs destroying a boogeyman, which isn’t an invitation to have no big bads or anything, just not zombie hitler.

“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV

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Why did Palps announce his return rather than using the element of surprise?

Palpatine has been long-established throughout the entire saga as someone who strikes fear into his enemies. Seriously, he created the Death Star to strike fear into the galaxy to prevent them from rebelling.

Why would Hux betray everything he believes in just because he dislikes a coworker?

Hux does not betray the First Order altogether, he sent in the information so Kylo Ren would lose. Unless you’re referring to, “I don’t care if you guys win,” Hux is just saying that so Finn and Poe wouldn’t kill him.

Why does Palps tell Kylo explicitly to kill Rey, when his whole plan depended on Rey magically finding her way to Exegol un-killed?

Palpatine did want Rey to come to Exegol, but her parents abandoned her and now he doesn’t know where she is, so he turns to Ben Solo because he does know where he is, and turns him to the dark side — he wants the blood descendant of the Skywalkers to perform the Sith ritual so he would possess his body. Palpatine tells Kylo to kill Rey because at this point he no longer has any use for her and Kylo is already this far into the dark side, it is too late to possess Rey at this point.

When Kylo Ren redeems himself, this ruins Palpatine’s plan to have a healthy Force-sensitive person perform the ritual so he’d get out of the clone body he’s been suffering in for years — his line, “The Princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plans, but her foolish act will soon be in vain,” implies his plan was to possess Kylo Ren —, so he falls back to his original plan to have Rey perform the ritual.

EDIT: Removed swearing, as requested by JJB.

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No need to start swearing, Testing. It’s just a movie. Unfortunately, some people are never going to find some enjoyment in it. No big deal as long as you yourself have.

Exsqueeze me.

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TestingOutTheTest said:

Palpatine did want Rey to come to Exegol, but her parents abandoned her and now he doesn’t know where she is, so he turns to Ben Solo because he does know where he is, and turns him to the dark side — he wants the blood descendant of the Skywalkers to perform the Sith ritual so he would possess his body. Palpatine tells Kylo to kill Rey because at this point he no longer has any use for her and Kylo is already this far into the dark side, it is too late to possess Rey at this point.

Um…what? None of that is established in the movie. And why not just possess Kylo if “he wants the blood descendant of the Skywalkers to perform the Sith ritual”?

Hux does not betray the First Order altogether, he sent in the information so Kylo Ren would lose. Unless you’re referring to, “I don’t care if you guys win,” Hux is just saying that so Finn and Poe wouldn’t kill him.

Oh shoot, I didn’t realize we could just arbitrarily decide when the script is lying to us or not. Cool beans.

In that case, I declare that Palps was lying to Kylo when he said that Rey is his granddaughter. Rey Palpatine is officially no longer canon!

But in all honestly, is there any way to make Palps say “I was lying when I said you were a Palpatine. I just needed to lure you here…”? That would be a clever angle to take the film, having Palps’s plan make sense, without ret-conning TLJ.

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sherlockpotter said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Palpatine did want Rey to come to Exegol, but her parents abandoned her and now he doesn’t know where she is, so he turns to Ben Solo because he does know where he is, and turns him to the dark side — he wants the blood descendant of the Skywalkers to perform the Sith ritual so he would possess his body. Palpatine tells Kylo to kill Rey because at this point he no longer has any use for her and Kylo is already this far into the dark side, it is too late to possess Rey at this point.

Um…what? None of that is established in the movie. And why not just possess Kylo if “he wants the blood descendant of the Skywalkers to perform the Sith ritual”?

It does not need to be explicitly spelled out to you. There is a concept called “inference” — something you already apply to TFA and TLJ.

That’s not how Sith essence transfer works. Palpatine demands Rey to perform the ritual by killing him out of hatred — by doing so, this would allow his spirit to possess Rey. He wanted to do the same thing with Kylo Ren, this is literally why he turns him to the dark side in the first place — he hoped for Kylo Ren to kill his failure of a clone body, allowing his spirit to possess Kylo Ren.

Hux does not betray the First Order altogether, he sent in the information so Kylo Ren would lose. Unless you’re referring to, “I don’t care if you guys win,” Hux is just saying that so Finn and Poe wouldn’t kill him.

Oh shoot, I didn’t realize we could just arbitrarily decide when the script is lying to us or not. Cool beans.

Again, INFERENCE. Hux clearly wants to rule the First Order and dispose of Kylo Ren from his status as Supreme Leader. If Hux did not say, “I don’t care if you guys win,” or at least said the opposite, then Finn and Poe would’ve killed him.

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I suggest some people in here read this again…

SparkySywer said:

Yeah, something people keep forgetting is that these are fanediting threads, not opinion threads. If your unsolicited opinion has nothing to do with fanediting, don’t post it. If you don’t like someone’s opinion, don’t watch their fanedit. Take your arguments to the argument threads, because we have those.

…and take non-Fan Project discussions to the relevant TROS discussion threads in the Beyond The Original Trilogy section.

Thank you.
 

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Yeah, so like I was saying, what would people feel about making the whole “Palpatine Granddaughter” angle a lie to lure Rey to Exegol? I’m not sure about it…I’m worried that I might cheapen Rey’s internal struggle in this movie, but it might be a direction worth pursuing.

The more I think about it, I still think the best option is just to ignore Rey’s parentage entirely, and focus on her personal struggles between the Dark and the Light.

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I personally think that Palpatine lying to Rey about her heritage would be totally in character for him and would preserve at least some semblance of logistical reason in the story so that she doesn’t just happen to be on Jakku along with every other important thing in the galaxy.

I don’t think it cheapens anything at all about Rey’s struggle, since she never seems interested in joining Palpatine or replacing him as his heir.

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