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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 122

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omnimuffin said:

EddieDean said:

Welp, that totally puts that whole train of speculation to bed.

To be fair, I suppose we do have to acknowledge that Vader-as-father only came in an early ESB script, and Leia-as-sister only existed as an idea for ROTJ, so Star Wars does kind of have this ‘laying the tracks before the train’ approach.

But still, I don’t think that justifies this lack of oversight and planning for what should have been a cohesive trilogy from the start.

EU media will gradually embed Palpatine-as-grandfather in the canon more solidly, but personally I’ll always prefer Rey Nobody, especially knowing how little it mattered to the production team.

All valid points. I very much get where they got the impulse to freewheel it- not wanting to tie themselves down and wanting to recapture some of the ‘free’ atmosphere of the original trilogy, which, like you said, was equally freewheeled original trilogy. It was definitely a mistake.

Major difference was that it was all Lucas freewheelin’ it back in 1980, so there was at least one cohesive goal…whereas it was 3 different directors and writers all mostly ignoring each other for the sequels.

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thebluefrog said:

omnimuffin said:

EddieDean said:

Welp, that totally puts that whole train of speculation to bed.

To be fair, I suppose we do have to acknowledge that Vader-as-father only came in an early ESB script, and Leia-as-sister only existed as an idea for ROTJ, so Star Wars does kind of have this ‘laying the tracks before the train’ approach.

But still, I don’t think that justifies this lack of oversight and planning for what should have been a cohesive trilogy from the start.

EU media will gradually embed Palpatine-as-grandfather in the canon more solidly, but personally I’ll always prefer Rey Nobody, especially knowing how little it mattered to the production team.

All valid points. I very much get where they got the impulse to freewheel it- not wanting to tie themselves down and wanting to recapture some of the ‘free’ atmosphere of the original trilogy, which, like you said, was equally freewheeled original trilogy. It was definitely a mistake.

Major difference was that it was all Lucas freewheelin’ it back in 1980, so there was at least one cohesive goal…whereas it was 3 different directors and writers all mostly ignoring each other for the sequels.

Not really true, Lucas famously hated a lot of the things Irvin Kershner was doing in Empire Strikes Back. And it was often others coming up with those big ideas and changes, most prominently Kasden and Kershner in Empire.

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JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

omnimuffin said:

EddieDean said:

Welp, that totally puts that whole train of speculation to bed.

To be fair, I suppose we do have to acknowledge that Vader-as-father only came in an early ESB script, and Leia-as-sister only existed as an idea for ROTJ, so Star Wars does kind of have this ‘laying the tracks before the train’ approach.

But still, I don’t think that justifies this lack of oversight and planning for what should have been a cohesive trilogy from the start.

EU media will gradually embed Palpatine-as-grandfather in the canon more solidly, but personally I’ll always prefer Rey Nobody, especially knowing how little it mattered to the production team.

All valid points. I very much get where they got the impulse to freewheel it- not wanting to tie themselves down and wanting to recapture some of the ‘free’ atmosphere of the original trilogy, which, like you said, was equally freewheeled original trilogy. It was definitely a mistake.

Major difference was that it was all Lucas freewheelin’ it back in 1980, so there was at least one cohesive goal…whereas it was 3 different directors and writers all mostly ignoring each other for the sequels.

Not really true, Lucas famously hated a lot of the things Irvin Kershner was doing in Empire Strikes Back. And it was often others coming up with those big ideas and changes, most prominently Kasden and Kershner in Empire.

The other influences may be present, sure, but Lucas was still at the helm with his vision guiding things overall.

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thebluefrog said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

omnimuffin said:

EddieDean said:

Welp, that totally puts that whole train of speculation to bed.

To be fair, I suppose we do have to acknowledge that Vader-as-father only came in an early ESB script, and Leia-as-sister only existed as an idea for ROTJ, so Star Wars does kind of have this ‘laying the tracks before the train’ approach.

But still, I don’t think that justifies this lack of oversight and planning for what should have been a cohesive trilogy from the start.

EU media will gradually embed Palpatine-as-grandfather in the canon more solidly, but personally I’ll always prefer Rey Nobody, especially knowing how little it mattered to the production team.

All valid points. I very much get where they got the impulse to freewheel it- not wanting to tie themselves down and wanting to recapture some of the ‘free’ atmosphere of the original trilogy, which, like you said, was equally freewheeled original trilogy. It was definitely a mistake.

Major difference was that it was all Lucas freewheelin’ it back in 1980, so there was at least one cohesive goal…whereas it was 3 different directors and writers all mostly ignoring each other for the sequels.

Not really true, Lucas famously hated a lot of the things Irvin Kershner was doing in Empire Strikes Back. And it was often others coming up with those big ideas and changes, most prominently Kasden and Kershner in Empire.

The other influences may be present, sure, but Lucas was still at the helm with his vision guiding things overall.

No, he felt so not at the helm with Empire that he made sure the majority of Return of the Jedi’s filming took place in his back yard.

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For a while, I’ve been trying to think of places in the movie that the incredible music from the final TROS trailer could go in since it wasn’t used in the film. You’ll have to excuse my poor editing skills, but I made a rough mock-up placing it immediately after Palpatine dies. I actually think it fits pretty well + I really wanted to replace the music there with something else since it’s a boring repeat of the overused Force theme again. The only issue I see is I’m not sure where to exactly end it. The music actually “fades” off in a decent area because the epic destruction montage comes to a halt when Rose tells Poe that Finn is still on the ship, but my editing for it is very awkward.

https://vimeo.com/456966550

If anyone who’s more skilled than me wants to take a shot at doing this I’d love to see it!

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Trailer music does not go in the movies. We’ve be over this extensively on RoS Ascendant’s thread.

But I understand your desire to use it. It’s epic, but at the end of the day it just doesn’t match Williams’ style, making it feel totally out of place.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Trailer music does not go in the movies. We’ve be over this extensively on RoS Ascendant’s thread.

But I understand your desire to use it. It’s epic, but at the end of the day it just doesn’t match Williams’ style, making it feel totally out of place.

Do you happen to know about when it was? I always try to see if there’s discussion for an idea before I post it but it’s difficult to search for anything on this website.

And while I’d love it if someone could help do it better, I might have to just refine my rough edit and deal with it since I like the music there so much lol

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It was a while ago, admittedly, and it was more concerning Duel of the Fates.

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 (Edited)

thebluefrog said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

omnimuffin said:

EddieDean said:

Welp, that totally puts that whole train of speculation to bed.

To be fair, I suppose we do have to acknowledge that Vader-as-father only came in an early ESB script, and Leia-as-sister only existed as an idea for ROTJ, so Star Wars does kind of have this ‘laying the tracks before the train’ approach.

But still, I don’t think that justifies this lack of oversight and planning for what should have been a cohesive trilogy from the start.

EU media will gradually embed Palpatine-as-grandfather in the canon more solidly, but personally I’ll always prefer Rey Nobody, especially knowing how little it mattered to the production team.

All valid points. I very much get where they got the impulse to freewheel it- not wanting to tie themselves down and wanting to recapture some of the ‘free’ atmosphere of the original trilogy, which, like you said, was equally freewheeled original trilogy. It was definitely a mistake.

Major difference was that it was all Lucas freewheelin’ it back in 1980, so there was at least one cohesive goal…whereas it was 3 different directors and writers all mostly ignoring each other for the sequels.

Not really true, Lucas famously hated a lot of the things Irvin Kershner was doing in Empire Strikes Back. And it was often others coming up with those big ideas and changes, most prominently Kasden and Kershner in Empire.

The other influences may be present, sure, but Lucas was still at the helm with his vision guiding things overall.

Not really. While Lucas was distracted with working on Indiana Jones with Spielberg, Irvin Kershner shot Empire in such a way that when George Lucas came back to edit it, he pretty much had no choice but to follow Irvin’s ideas. Very few takes were shot, and among the ones that were shot, there wasn’t a whole lot of variety. While George Lucas wrote the broad strokes of the story, the final product become much more of an Irvin Kershner movie than a George Lucas movie.

Like JakeRyan said, Lucas’s complete lack of control over Empire was a huge influence on RotJ. He took a lot more control over RotJ and hired a much weaker director (Richard Marquand) who wouldn’t pull the kind of stuff Irvin Kershner pulled. This is why I think RotJ feels a lot more Lucas-y than the other two movies. I think this is also why Empire is George Lucas’s least favorite Star Wars movie.

I don’t mean to downplay George Lucas’s contribution to the OT. This isn’t an early 2010s conspiracy theory about how XYZ rando was the REAL creator of Star Wars. But we shouldn’t swing too hard the other direction either. Even ignoring his rocky relationship to Empire, the idea that he was a sole visionary force behind the Original Trilogy is wrong. Most movies are group projects, and hell, Star Wars is the example I usually go to for this, where so many people were putting their ideas for Star Wars, sometimes directly against George Lucas’s wishes, that are now some of the most important aspects of Star Wars. Which is why when the prequels rolled around and George Lucas was in complete control, and all these other creatives were either dead or had had a falling out with Lucas, to most people the movies felt like they were missing something integral to Star Wars.

Death of the Author

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Not really. While Lucas was distracted with working on Indiana Jones with Spielberg, Irvin Kershner shot Empire in such a way that when George Lucas came back to edit it, he pretty much had no choice but to follow Irvin’s ideas. Very few takes were shot, and among the ones that were shot, there wasn’t a whole lot of variety. While George Lucas wrote the broad strokes of the story, the final product become much more of an Irvin Kershner movie than a George Lucas movie.

Like JakeRyan said, Lucas’s complete lack of control over Empire was a huge influence on RotJ. He took a lot more control over RotJ and hired a much weaker director (Richard Marquand) who wouldn’t pull the kind of stuff Irvin Kershner pulled. This is why I think RotJ feels a lot more Lucas-y than the other two movies. I think this is also why Empire is George Lucas’s least favorite Star Wars movie.

I don’t mean to downplay George Lucas’s contribution to the OT. This isn’t an early 2010s conspiracy theory about how XYZ rando was the REAL creator of Star Wars. But we shouldn’t swing too hard the other direction either. Even ignoring his rocky relationship to Empire, the idea that he was a sole visionary force behind the Original Trilogy is wrong. Most movies are group projects, and hell, Star Wars is the example I usually go to for this, where so many people were putting their ideas for Star Wars, sometimes directly against George Lucas’s wishes, that are now some of the most important aspects of Star Wars. Which is why when the prequels rolled around and George Lucas was in complete control, and all these other creatives were either dead or had had a falling out with Lucas, to most people the movies felt like they were missing something integral to Star Wars.

Marquand did still bring his own contributions to RotJ, even if minor. If I remember correctly the claustrophobic feel of Jabba’s Palace was one of his big contributions, along with attempting to show Vader’s emotions behind the mask.

Use the Force, Jon Yowza.

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Hoop28 said:

Not really. While Lucas was distracted with working on Indiana Jones with Spielberg, Irvin Kershner shot Empire in such a way that when George Lucas came back to edit it, he pretty much had no choice but to follow Irvin’s ideas. Very few takes were shot, and among the ones that were shot, there wasn’t a whole lot of variety. While George Lucas wrote the broad strokes of the story, the final product become much more of an Irvin Kershner movie than a George Lucas movie.

Like JakeRyan said, Lucas’s complete lack of control over Empire was a huge influence on RotJ. He took a lot more control over RotJ and hired a much weaker director (Richard Marquand) who wouldn’t pull the kind of stuff Irvin Kershner pulled. This is why I think RotJ feels a lot more Lucas-y than the other two movies. I think this is also why Empire is George Lucas’s least favorite Star Wars movie.

I don’t mean to downplay George Lucas’s contribution to the OT. This isn’t an early 2010s conspiracy theory about how XYZ rando was the REAL creator of Star Wars. But we shouldn’t swing too hard the other direction either. Even ignoring his rocky relationship to Empire, the idea that he was a sole visionary force behind the Original Trilogy is wrong. Most movies are group projects, and hell, Star Wars is the example I usually go to for this, where so many people were putting their ideas for Star Wars, sometimes directly against George Lucas’s wishes, that are now some of the most important aspects of Star Wars. Which is why when the prequels rolled around and George Lucas was in complete control, and all these other creatives were either dead or had had a falling out with Lucas, to most people the movies felt like they were missing something integral to Star Wars.

Marquand did still bring his own contributions to RotJ, even if minor. If I remember correctly the claustrophobic feel of Jabba’s Palace was one of his big contributions, along with attempting to show Vader’s emotions behind the mask.

Point was that Lucas did not have the original trilogy under one cohesive vision, most notably with Empire Strikes Back which made several (now iconic) decisions that he didn’t like.

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One also can’t discount the huge effect Marcia Lucas had on ANH and ROTJ.

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omnimuffin said:

One also can’t discount the huge effect Marcia Lucas had on ANH and ROTJ.

Definitely, though arguably her ideas weren’t as countered and rejected by Lucas; she was more a collaborator. Abrams with IX and Kershner with V were the two directors actively going against what came before.

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^ Cool as hell. I REALLLYYYYY hope the rumors are true that we’ll see him visit Exegol

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God, I wish so badly that we had the Eye of Webbish Bog scenes to put in the movie.

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 (Edited)

Well this is coming out in December, so maaybe there’s a chance they re-release TROS with the deleted scenes then?

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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idir_hh said:

Well this is coming out in December, so maaybe there’s a chance they re-release TROS with the deleted scenes then?

😂

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I’m betting on the day after I eventually delete my master ProRes file, meaning I’d have to potentially do a lot more work to get back up and running.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hal 9000 said:

I’m betting on the day after I eventually delete my master ProRes file, meaning I’d have to potentially do a lot more work to get back up and running.

Ain’t that always how it goes?

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NeverarGreat said:

With the declining cost of data storage, I’m questioning more and more if I should delete any file ever again.

Active projects on the SSD, finished projects on the HDD.