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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 121

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 (Edited)

I guess the idea was for Kylo to be a reverse Luke Skywalker in the way that he progresses from someone who is unsure and unexperienced in the “path”, and by the 3rd film becomes a fully fledged and dedicated follower of said “path”.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

Imagine if Kylo had straight up killed Palpatine at the start and been the primary antagonist. TLJ turned all the villains into jokes, with Hux being ragdolled around, Snoke dying like Jar Jar, and Kylo throwing a tantrum at Luke. Phasma not so much, but she was wasted too, so…

Getting Kylo back on track to be a genuine threat would’ve helped raise the emotional stakes and made his evolution over the trilogy more interesting.

Unfortunately…I don’t think this is editable with current material. Probably 10 years away to be able to edit that with deepfakes and video games.

That was the intention with The Last Jedi killing Snoke, to set Kylo up as Episode IX’s main antagonist. That’s what Colin Trevorrow’s Duel of Fates did as well. I think that was the prevailing idea forward until Abrams’ came back.

Of course, Treverrow’s script didn’t handle it particuarily well either, contriving an excuse for Kylo to get an even more Vader-ey mask and having him lose the final fight because Rey becomes a bad fanfiction grey Jedi using both the light and dark, and with later revisions pulling the ‘last minute turn to the light’ and making one of the Knights of Ren (coincedentally, one that was very much not visible during the flashback in TFA, because a) she’s a woman and b) she has the darksaber) be the eleventh hour final boss.

Because it’s so obvious in the TFA flashbacks that none of them are women?

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None of them were pink OR had a bow.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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DominicCobb said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

Imagine if Kylo had straight up killed Palpatine at the start and been the primary antagonist. TLJ turned all the villains into jokes, with Hux being ragdolled around, Snoke dying like Jar Jar, and Kylo throwing a tantrum at Luke. Phasma not so much, but she was wasted too, so…

Getting Kylo back on track to be a genuine threat would’ve helped raise the emotional stakes and made his evolution over the trilogy more interesting.

Unfortunately…I don’t think this is editable with current material. Probably 10 years away to be able to edit that with deepfakes and video games.

That was the intention with The Last Jedi killing Snoke, to set Kylo up as Episode IX’s main antagonist. That’s what Colin Trevorrow’s Duel of Fates did as well. I think that was the prevailing idea forward until Abrams’ came back.

Of course, Treverrow’s script didn’t handle it particuarily well either, contriving an excuse for Kylo to get an even more Vader-ey mask and having him lose the final fight because Rey becomes a bad fanfiction grey Jedi using both the light and dark, and with later revisions pulling the ‘last minute turn to the light’ and making one of the Knights of Ren (coincedentally, one that was very much not visible during the flashback in TFA, because a) she’s a woman and b) she has the darksaber) be the eleventh hour final boss.

Because it’s so obvious in the TFA flashbacks that none of them are women?

I think (hope) he just means that none of them had the Darksaber…

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I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

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omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

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JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

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omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

That’s fair, that script was far from perfect… but it was a lot better than what Abrams turned in. Like pole-vaulting over a crack in the pavement.

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JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

That’s fair, that script was far from perfect… but it was a lot better than what Abrams turned in. Like pole-vaulting over a crack in the pavement.

I really, really don’t agree. It’s not better, it’s just different bad.

There are a lot of cool elements, but there are elements so bad that they drag the rest of it deeply below the final product for me.

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omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

That’s fair, that script was far from perfect… but it was a lot better than what Abrams turned in. Like pole-vaulting over a crack in the pavement.

I really, really don’t agree. It’s not better, it’s just different bad.

There are a lot of cool elements, but there are elements so bad that they drag the rest of it deeply below the final product for me.

I don’t know. Any attempt at originality is better than more member-berries.

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JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

That’s fair, that script was far from perfect… but it was a lot better than what Abrams turned in. Like pole-vaulting over a crack in the pavement.

I really, really don’t agree. It’s not better, it’s just different bad.

There are a lot of cool elements, but there are elements so bad that they drag the rest of it deeply below the final product for me.

I don’t know. Any attempt at originality is better than more member-berries.

We’ve had this conversation before, but I strongly disagree. Originality can be good, but only when done well. The same can be said about nostalgia. DOTF was bad originality, TROS is bad nostalgia. They’re bad in different ways, but they’re both equally bad.

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omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

Probably because we don’t have the script that actually features her to determine.

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DominicCobb said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

Probably because we don’t have the script that actually features her to determine.

Even if we had the script, she would probably still seem like a last-minute afterthought. Trevorrow has never been good at writing compelling villains, and the plot outline that was posted doesn’t feature her much at all. She shows up for the final fight, dies, and that’s her entire screen time. She feels like Darth Maul 2.0.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:
Even if we had the script, she would probably still seem like a last-minute afterthought. Trevorrow has never been good at writing compelling villains, and the plot outline that was posted doesn’t feature her much at all. She shows up for the final fight, dies, and that’s her entire screen time. She feels like Darth Maul 2.0.

Then that’s exactly what she should have been. Bring the entire story full arc referencing Episode 1’s Sith.

Have her wield the double blade, and have everyone question why is she a total Maul ripoff?

And then she reveals her identity, and why she hates Ben Solo so much:

She’s Qira.

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StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

Probably because we don’t have the script that actually features her to determine.

Even if we had the script, she would probably still seem like a last-minute afterthought. Trevorrow has never been good at writing compelling villains, and the plot outline that was posted doesn’t feature her much at all. She shows up for the final fight, dies, and that’s her entire screen time. She feels like Darth Maul 2.0.

I’m not gonna doubt it, but it seems weird to be so definitive when we don’t have the script, only secondhand reports.

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DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

Probably because we don’t have the script that actually features her to determine.

Even if we had the script, she would probably still seem like a last-minute afterthought. Trevorrow has never been good at writing compelling villains, and the plot outline that was posted doesn’t feature her much at all. She shows up for the final fight, dies, and that’s her entire screen time. She feels like Darth Maul 2.0.

I’m not gonna doubt it, but it seems weird to be so definitive when we don’t have the script, only secondhand reports.

I know we can’t be definitive, but I wouldn’t get my hopes up for a magic script that fixes everything either. Judging by Colin’s earlier work, it doesn’t seem like he’s very good at franchise movies.

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DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

omnimuffin said:

JakeRyan17 said:

omnimuffin said:

I mostly meant that we know who all of the actors for the original Knights were and they were all male, and also that none of them had the darksaber.

We also know that the original “actors” weren’t actors so much as stand-ins for later.

Also, no one knew that Moffat’s Gideon had the Darksaber until he pulled it out. It’s quite portable. Also, who knows, maybe she didn’t acquire it until sometime in the years between that flashback and a year after TFA/TLJ takes place.

I just feel portraying it as an impossible plot hole is a bit much.

That’s a valid point.

That said, the scripts do not make her feel like a very good villain, haha.

Probably because we don’t have the script that actually features her to determine.

Even if we had the script, she would probably still seem like a last-minute afterthought. Trevorrow has never been good at writing compelling villains, and the plot outline that was posted doesn’t feature her much at all. She shows up for the final fight, dies, and that’s her entire screen time. She feels like Darth Maul 2.0.

I’m not gonna doubt it, but it seems weird to be so definitive when we don’t have the script, only secondhand reports.

As much as I absolutely despise linking to his website, we do have a credible (but disgusting) leaker’s notes on it:

https://makingstarwars.net/2020/01/i-read-colin-trevorrow-and-derek-connollys-final-star-wars-episode-ix-script/

(my reluctance linking to it comes from the fact that the proprietor of Making Star Wars is an absolute creep who doesn’t deserve the clicks/traffic monetization money.