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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread - * SPOILERS * — Page 40

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idir_hh said:

Your welcome guys, it’s not a lot of footage but it could help out here and there. That last shot is a little nod at the kind of ending I have in my mind 😏

I know exactly what you mean, idir! I have a feeling we will get that kind of ending to work.

As far as that extra material, there’s definitely a few shots that I think could work well for some of the vision flashes, like Dark Rey lifting her head to reveal her face.

It would require some vfx work but the extra shots of Luke and Leia training would be cool to use.

Is that full sequence of Rey sitting and then grabbing oil to help with D-0’s squeaky wheel in the movie? I remember her using it on him, but I don’t recall her sitting down and then getting up to grab it. If you cropped that shot to remove that stick, or key it out, that would give you a bit extra breathing room for that scene.

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RogueLeader said:

idir_hh said:

Your welcome guys, it’s not a lot of footage but it could help out here and there. That last shot is a little nod at the kind of ending I have in my mind 😏

I know exactly what you mean, idir! I have a feeling we will get that kind of ending to work.

Glad to hear it! Got that feeling too.

Is that full sequence of Rey sitting and then grabbing oil to help with D-0’s squeaky wheel in the movie?

It’s not in the movie, the only thing that was left in was Rey oiling D-O’s wheel. This happens after 3PO’s sacrifice so she’s kinda mourning in this scene.

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idir_hh said:

Made a quick compilation of all shots from the documentary that could be used to extend scenes:

https://vimeo.com/398677816

Hero

JEDIT: Definitely looks like there could be one or two useable shots in there. Especially Dark Rey on the throne (if someone can do VFX for that second shot).

It’s not in the movie, the only thing that was left in was Rey oiling D-O’s wheel. This happens after 3PO’s sacrifice so she’s kinda mourning in this scene.

Could be a nice little moment to include if a VFX wiz could remove the puppeteering equipment. Audio will be a pain too I suppose. Still.

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Hal 9000 said:

I’d support that idea and use it if it can be done.

I think that as Kylo is yelling that he’ll find the scavenger, the poor fella is visible squirming up on the ceiling. Also I think it’s a bit dumb how he calls her the scavenger, parroting Snoke like a tool.

heil palpatine.

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I think you could recut it to remove those last few shots. And you could end it with Ren just staring out the window.

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Thanks for sharing. At first I really liked the idea that Snoke was some kind of homunculus controlled by Palpatine, but I really don’t like the idea that killing Snoke was actually some sort of test for Kylo. The more I think about it the more I feel like Snoke being Palpatine’s apprentice would’ve been a much simpler explanation.

Who was Snoke a clone of? Was he a clone or a creation? Did Palpatine control him directly? Or was he given false memories?

I don’t know. I just think Snoke would’ve worked better if he had his own agency, rather than basically being Palpatine speaking through a puppet body.

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Yeah it takes away too much agency from Kylo, instead of “I made Snoke”, he could say “I trained Snoke”

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RogueLeader said:

Thanks for sharing. At first I really liked the idea that Snoke was some kind of homunculus controlled by Palpatine, but I really don’t like the idea that killing Snoke was actually some sort of test for Kylo. The more I think about it the more I feel like Snoke being Palpatine’s apprentice would’ve been a much simpler explanation.

Who was Snoke a clone of? Was he a clone or a creation? Did Palpatine control him directly? Or was he given false memories?

I don’t know. I just think Snoke would’ve worked better if he had his own agency, rather than basically being Palpatine speaking through a puppet body.

I still don’t get this. Saying he was a test kinda implies he wasn’t a puppet, no? To me it sounds like Palpatine made Snoke and sent him out to do his bidding but knew if Kylo was as powerful as he could be he would overthrow the inferior Snoke. That’s how it all reads to me at least.

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idir_hh said:

Yeah it takes away too much agency from Kylo, instead of “I made Snoke”, he could say “I trained Snoke”

That could be a simple change actually!

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Thanks for sharing. At first I really liked the idea that Snoke was some kind of homunculus controlled by Palpatine, but I really don’t like the idea that killing Snoke was actually some sort of test for Kylo. The more I think about it the more I feel like Snoke being Palpatine’s apprentice would’ve been a much simpler explanation.

Who was Snoke a clone of? Was he a clone or a creation? Did Palpatine control him directly? Or was he given false memories?

I don’t know. I just think Snoke would’ve worked better if he had his own agency, rather than basically being Palpatine speaking through a puppet body.

I still don’t get this. Saying he was a test kinda implies he wasn’t a puppet, no? To me it sounds like Palpatine made Snoke and sent him out to do his bidding but knew if Kylo was as powerful as he could be he would overthrow the inferior Snoke. That’s how it all reads to me at least.

The line, “I have been every voice you’ve ever heard inside your head” with Snoke being one of the voices, implies to me that Palpatine was Snoke.

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RogueLeader said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Thanks for sharing. At first I really liked the idea that Snoke was some kind of homunculus controlled by Palpatine, but I really don’t like the idea that killing Snoke was actually some sort of test for Kylo. The more I think about it the more I feel like Snoke being Palpatine’s apprentice would’ve been a much simpler explanation.

Who was Snoke a clone of? Was he a clone or a creation? Did Palpatine control him directly? Or was he given false memories?

I don’t know. I just think Snoke would’ve worked better if he had his own agency, rather than basically being Palpatine speaking through a puppet body.

I still don’t get this. Saying he was a test kinda implies he wasn’t a puppet, no? To me it sounds like Palpatine made Snoke and sent him out to do his bidding but knew if Kylo was as powerful as he could be he would overthrow the inferior Snoke. That’s how it all reads to me at least.

The line, “I have been every voice you’ve ever heard inside your head” with Snoke being one of the voices, implies to me that Palpatine was Snoke.

I mean, I think they purposefully make it vague and I think that line is supposed to be figurative. Especially this excerpt seems to dispel that theory, them calling Snoke a servant and such. They’re very much talking about him as if he’s a separate person. If the novel expands on the explanation of Snoke you’d think they’d make “puppet” more explicit if that was actually the case rather than go in the opposite direction.

This is basically how I feel about it, the film makes it vague and keeps it open to interpretation (like a lot of things). But to me, the “Snoke” is a puppet concept literally just does not make sense. So it’s hard for me to roll with that interpretation when there is a much more sensical one that is equally valid based on the information presented.

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If you just watch the movie, and don’t read outside material. The only context you get is:

• Palpatine literally made Snoke.
• He has multiple clones of Snoke.
• He says he’s been EVERY voice in Kylo’s head, and even says it in Snoke’s voice. It didn’t seem like he meant it figuratively.

I mean, you could’ve argued “I made Snoke” was figurative, like he helped Snoke become the powerful Supreme Leader, but then we see literal vats of Snoke’s.

I think the novelization takes a different direction than the movie implies in a few places. Like Palpatine himself. The state of his body makes you think that is Palpatine’s actual body, with the dead eyes and the broken, stitched together hands. Using a giant mechanical apparatus to try and keep what’s left of him alive. But then the novel says it is a clone body.

I don’t know. It just seems like instead of picking one explanation for anything, they vaguely hinted at multiple explanations so the audience could fill in the gaps themselves. I don’t know if that was a benefit or a detriment.

EDIT: I don’t necessarily have strong feelings either way about Snoke or Palpatine, but I think it would be worth trying to provide a little clarification regarding them, and I think trying to determine the simplest explanation might be the best way to do it. As of now, it is all too vague to me.

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RogueLeader said:

If you just watch the movie, and don’t read outside material. The only context you get is:

• Palpatine literally made Snoke.
• He has multiple clones of Snoke.
• He says he’s been EVERY voice in Kylo’s head, and even says it in Snoke’s voice. It didn’t seem like he meant it figuratively.

I mean, you could’ve argued “I made Snoke” was figurative, like he helped Snoke become the powerful Supreme Leader, but then we see literal vats of Snoke’s.

I mean obviously he literally made Snoke. I’m just having a real tough time making the leap from ‘making’ to ‘having him be a literal puppet.’ To me that doesn’t make any sense, because if he can control a body remotely, why is that body Snoke? Why not Palpatine or literally anyone else? And then why is he inhabiting his fucked up body and not another Snoke body during this movie? Not to mention how absolutely stupid a retcon it would be to look at Snoke in the last two movies and think ‘oh that’s actually Palpatine.’

No, I think at worst we’re meant to believe that he’s a little minion that Palpatine has nominal control over (like a programmed robot or zombie) rather than an actual body that Palpatine himself is inhabiting.

Anyway I guess this is kind of an off topic discussion. I’m not really sure how to apply any of this to editing, besides maybe suggesting cutting out “I have been every voice…” and/or the Snoke vat, depending on how offensive you find them.

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I didn’t feel like I jumped to that conclusion. I honestly felt like the film was inferring that.

But maybe my interpretation is an outlier. I would like to hear how other people interpreted all of that.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that if we get several varying interpretations, then maybe it would be worth clarifying in a fan edit. That’s all.

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You’re not the only one. The idea didn’t occur to me at all until I saw people saying as much around the web. I’m just saying to me it feels like a jump (in the same way ‘Rey exiles to Tatooine’ feels like a jump, though maybe this one less so).

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• Palpatine literally made Snoke.
• He has multiple clones of Snoke.
• He says he’s been EVERY voice in Kylo’s head, and even says it in Snoke’s voice. It didn’t seem like he meant it figuratively.

Rogue, that was exactly the conclusion I got from watching it. It seems very blunt.

Palps says he made Snoke.
We have a tub full of “Snokes.”
And Palps spoke in Kylo’s mind with all those distinct voices.

So if one wants to go a different direction than that, or to steer it a bit different, changes would HAVE to be made if an edit doesn’t want that.

Do NOT self-destruct!

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I don’t think it’s blunt at all. If it was blunt he would have said “I am Snoke.” He specifically didn’t say that. I don’t know why make = being. In my mind it implies separation.

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Since it was Snoke who turned Kylo evil (presumably through voices in his head) and since Sheev says that he’s been every voice in Kylo’s head, I assumed that they were trying to have Sheev be responsible for turning Kylo. Whether or not Sheev is directly controlling Snoke or in spiritual possession of an otherwise lifeless meat puppet, the point is that Sheev is Snoke in every way that matters.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
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I don’t know what to say except I don’t buy it. I understand I am in the minority on this one, most people seemed to interpret it that way. And not that it means anything but I do believe if you look at things like that novelization excerpt and the visual dictionary it seems like the official intention was closer to what I took from it.

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It’s the voice line that makes it seem that way to me, more so than the “I made Snoke” line. I would agree with your impression just based off that, but the fact he says he was every voice in his head, including Snoke, makes me thing that Snoke was only a vessel that Palpatine spoke through.

But I guess that is what bugs me about the movie/novelization. It doesn’t really make anything clear. Palpatine made Snoke, but was he his puppet or his servant? Did Snoke know he was serving Palpatine? Was Palpatine a corpse or a clone? Did Palpatine FUCK, or was his son a test tube baby? It feels afraid to give a concise answer, so it leaves everything ambiguous.

I guess that is why I like the idea of Palpatine clones in the vats instead of Snoke, because it gives you a visual answer as to how he is back. Not just a Dominic spitballing ideas to the audience. I guess I like that in the same way I like Snoke being trained by Palpatine. It lets Snoke keep his agency, but still makes him a pawn of Palpatine. So, you could make that voice line just be, “[Palpatine voice] I have been every voice [Vader voice] inside your head.”

You could leave it as-is, too. But like I said, Snoke being his own character with his own goals makes Kylo killing him in TLJ more satisfying, IMO. It doesn’t have to be that way though of course.

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I understand what you are coming from Dominic, but we are just going by what the movie presented. Now, you can look at outside sources to help build a picture, but again, I think the topic is what the MOVIE is really showing and implying. That’s where I am in the boat of trying to make the movie explain things without relying on OUTSIDE material to get the “full” picture.

The movie does heavily imply Palps was doing a puppet master thing. To what extent? Hard to say but it really implies Palps was behind everything that happened to Kylo in words … at least. But he strait up does a Snoke and Vader voice … so that also points again toward more control than not.

EDIT: Just saw ROgue’s comment. I do like the idea that Hal had was to remove the Snoke bodies and have body parts to be Palps that helps paint the picture of cloning … parts for him.

I wonder how hard it would be to say something like “I trained him” instead of “I made him.” I don’t know if that is feasible to make it perfect.

Do NOT self-destruct!

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jarbear said:

I understand what you are coming from Dominic, but we are just going by what the movie presented. Now, you can look at outside sources to help build a picture, but again, I think the topic is what the MOVIE is really showing and implying. That’s where I am in the boat of trying to make the movie explain things without relying on OUTSIDE material to get the “full” picture.

At the risk of continuing this circle, I’ll just reiterate that my interpretation is what I got from the movie on my first two viewings, it’s not based on anything else. My point about the supplemental material is that I think that what I saw was quite possibly what they intended, so I don’t think the film is a definitely pro-puppet as people seem to imply. As I said before I think they purposefully leave it vague.

EDIT: Just saw ROgue’s comment. I do like the idea that Hal had was to remove the Snoke bodies and have body parts to be Palps that helps paint the picture of cloning … parts for him.

I think Palpatine clones would be fun, although it might raise questions in regards to Palpatine’s appearance. I think RL probably presents the absolute simplest solution to get rid the Snoke puppet idea - just cut out “you have ever heard.”

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NeverarGreat said:

Since it was Snoke who turned Kylo evil (presumably through voices in his head) and since Sheev says that he’s been every voice in Kylo’s head, I assumed that they were trying to have Sheev be responsible for turning Kylo. Whether or not Sheev is directly controlling Snoke or in spiritual possession of an otherwise lifeless meat puppet, the point is that Sheev is Snoke in every way that matters.

Very true. If Palpatine was directly linked to Snoke, whether he be his master or he literally controlled Snoke, I still think you could conclude that Palpatine was responsible for having Snoke turn Ben. I guess the most direct way to do that is by having Palpatine literally control Snoke, or create him for that very purpose.

DominicCobb said:

I think Palpatine clones would be fun, although it might raise questions in regards to Palpatine’s appearance. I think RL probably presents the absolute simplest solution to get rid the Snoke puppet idea - just cut out “you have ever heard.”

This was something I was thinking about too. Visually, it looks like it is Palpatine’s undead body. Although, Ian doesn’t really put the make up on until he drains Rey and Ben’s life force…
this is one of those things that I think people would assume, based off looking at him, that he’s just inhabiting his undead corpse.
Maybe if you created that shot of the Palpatine clones, you could insert that “More than a clone, less than a man” line over it. If the clones were in different states of decay, maybe it could help imply the clones decay rapidly.

I guess I prefer the cloning option because I don’t like the idea that they somehow recovered his body from the Death Star! On the other hand, if they had to recover his charred corpse from the wreckage of the Death Star in order to bring him back to life, then seeing his body explode at the end of the film might feel more like a definitive death for Palpatine.
Still think I prefer the cloning idea though.

EDIT: The cloning pods could contain random body parts, to imply they basically Frankenstein’d what was left of his dead body.

DOUBLE EDIT: Actually, the “more of a clone, less than a man” line would fit really well with that idea. He’s more than a clone, because there’s still parts of him that are his original body, but he’s less than a man because so much of him are cloned parts held together by technology.

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I always thought that line would fit in well with the shot of him raising his hands, as if to display the fact “more than clone, less than a man