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Star Wars The Lost Cut: Everything We Know About It — Page 3

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Is the Jabba scene in the Black and white version serious question… That is really what I am asking?

If Greedo is in would Jabba be removed?

Or as it’s an assembly everything is in no matter what it is… Which would mean you would have everything that was shot more or less in it?

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ZigZig said:

Ronster said:

You need to remove Greedo in the Cantina as this was a re-shoot to pair everything down then. I prefer the way it was done without the Jabba scene in terms how the handled it though.

No, definitely no.
The Cantina scene with Greedo is in the fourth script (Jan.1976)

Yeah, the Greedo cantina scene not a reshoot - when the Jabba scene was cut, the dialgoue in the Greedo scene was altered (by changing Greedo’s subtitles and lifting a Han line directly from the Jabba scene) to give the same information that the Jabba scene did. When they restored the Jabba scene in 1997, though, they forgot to revert the Greedo scene back to its originally-filmed state.

From the shooting script (March 1976 revised fourth draft):

ALIEN
Going somewhere, Solo?

HAN
As a matter of fact, I was just going to see your boss. Tell Jabba that I have his money.

ALIEN
That’s what you said yesterday, but it’s too late… I’m not going back to Jabba with another one of your stories.

HAN
But I’ve got the money this time!

ALIEN
Then I’ll take it now.

Han sits down and the alien sits across from him holding the gun on him.

HAN
I haven’t got it here with me. Tell Jabba…

ALIEN
It’s too late I think. Jabba would rather have your ship.

HAN
Over my dead body.
ALIEN
That’s the idea, Solo. You will come outside with me or must I finish it here?

HAN
I don’t think they’d like another killing in here.

ALIEN
They’d hardly notice… get up. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time…

HAN
I bet you have…

Suddenly the slimy alien disappears in a blinding flash of light. Han pulls his smoking gun from beneath the table as the other patrons look on in bemused amazement.

HAN
…but it will take a lot more than the likes of you to finish me off…

Han gets up and starts out of the cantina, flipping the bartender some coins as he leaves.

HAN
Sorry for the mess…

Notice Greedo never says “Jabba has no time for smugglers who drop their shipments” yadda yadda (Jabba dialogue), and no “Even I get boarded sometimes, do you think I had a choice?” from Han, which is the line lifted directly from the Jabba scene (it’s the exact same take used in both scenes in the 1997/2004/2011/2019 versions).

As scripted and filmed, the Greedo and Jabba scene were both meant to be in the film. When they cut the one, they modified the other to make sure no information was lost.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

ZigZig said:

Ronster said:

You need to remove Greedo in the Cantina as this was a re-shoot to pair everything down then. I prefer the way it was done without the Jabba scene in terms how the handled it though.

No, definitely no.
The Cantina scene with Greedo is in the fourth script (Jan.1976)

Yeah, the Greedo cantina scene not a reshoot - when the Jabba scene was cut, the dialgoue in the Greedo scene was altered (by changing Greedo’s subtitles and lifting a Han line directly from the Jabba scene) to give the same information that the Jabba scene did. When they restored the Jabba scene in 1997, though, they forgot to revert the Greedo scene back to its originally-filmed state.

The Greedo scene is not a re-shoot but it was obviously caught that the Jabba scene was not working so the Jabba scene it would seem was discarded way before Tosche station and Biggs and so on all the other stuff.

There is no mention of the Jabba scene being in the Lost Cut.

https://starwarz.com/tbone/the-lost-cut-of-star-wars/

This is interesting as it means the Lost Cut is NOT an assembly

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Ronster said:

ChainsawAsh said:

ZigZig said:

Ronster said:

You need to remove Greedo in the Cantina as this was a re-shoot to pair everything down then. I prefer the way it was done without the Jabba scene in terms how the handled it though.

No, definitely no.
The Cantina scene with Greedo is in the fourth script (Jan.1976)

Yeah, the Greedo cantina scene not a reshoot - when the Jabba scene was cut, the dialgoue in the Greedo scene was altered (by changing Greedo’s subtitles and lifting a Han line directly from the Jabba scene) to give the same information that the Jabba scene did. When they restored the Jabba scene in 1997, though, they forgot to revert the Greedo scene back to its originally-filmed state.

The Greedo scene is not a re-shoot but it was obviously caught that the Jabba scene was not working so the Jabba scene it would seem was discarded way before Tosche station and Biggs and so on all the other stuff.

There is no mention of the Jabba scene being in the Lost Cut.

https://starwarz.com/tbone/the-lost-cut-of-star-wars/

There are lot of mentions of the Jabba scene being in the Lost Cut.
Ronster, pleaaaaaaaase…

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Ronster said:

ChainsawAsh said:

ZigZig said:

Ronster said:

You need to remove Greedo in the Cantina as this was a re-shoot to pair everything down then. I prefer the way it was done without the Jabba scene in terms how the handled it though.

No, definitely no.
The Cantina scene with Greedo is in the fourth script (Jan.1976)

Yeah, the Greedo cantina scene not a reshoot - when the Jabba scene was cut, the dialgoue in the Greedo scene was altered (by changing Greedo’s subtitles and lifting a Han line directly from the Jabba scene) to give the same information that the Jabba scene did. When they restored the Jabba scene in 1997, though, they forgot to revert the Greedo scene back to its originally-filmed state.

The Greedo scene is not a re-shoot but it was obviously caught that the Jabba scene was not working so the Jabba scene it would seem was discarded way before Tosche station and Biggs and so on all the other stuff.

There is no mention of the Jabba scene being in the Lost Cut.

https://starwarz.com/tbone/the-lost-cut-of-star-wars/

This is interesting as it means the Lost Cut is NOT an assembly

Jesus dude, this is asinine. I’m done. Have fun in this thread you guys.

a trolling bantha

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Sorry I missed it on the list my bad. So it is an Assembly everything in it.

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Ronster said:

Sorry but it is not on that list from the person who saw it… Unless that list misses that scene out for some reason

Off topic again.
Read SW Insider #41.
I’m done, I leave this topic until you disappear.

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Look I made a mistake apologies about that but I did note that the Alien yet to be named Greedo apeared on 4th Draft revised not on 4th Draft so it is safe to assume that Montross became Greedo in the re-write that was the main point, but it negates the need for the Jabba scene IMO but would still be included in an assembly.

This is an alternate angle for scene D42.

Presumeably it would have been this angle when the Lines are spoken

MOTTI
“The final check out is completed
and all systems are operational.
What course shall we set?”

We then would get the Final Checks Graphics and Motti’s face in shot.

I don’t really think there is much more to it but there are a few shots I must admit I would like to see like the close up of the storm trooper riding the Dewback is another.

It would seem the repeated shot of Tarkin Thinking before the Death star explodes replaces Luke in cockpit saying “Let’s get out of here before that thing goes supernova” or it would seem the placement is correct as per fourth draft and was filmed seen in the blooper reel.

Did they ever film smoke rising from behind a sand dune as the establishing shot for the Sandcrawler found destroyed?

We may never know… But as with all films there are a few incidental moments.

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Ronster said:

the Alien yet to be named Greedo apeared on 4th Draft revised not on 4th Draft

Wrong. Again. Stop. Leave. Please.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8sD6-u7g2Y

Ronster, you’ve seen this, right? That’s the first edit of the Greedo scene, with different takes and alternate dialog.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Yes I have…

  1. Fourth Draft (January 1976)
  2. Revised Fourth Draft (Shooting Script) (March 1976)

You will have to navigate to the scene only found in the 4th draft revised. Peter Mayhew shooting script he showed on twitter contains the Montrose character scene meaning that the Greedo scene simply was not there originally and a re-write and removed Montrose that became Greedo for the purposes I already stated. It is about the only re-write apart from killing Ben Kenobi on Death Star and let’s get out of here before this thing goes supernova. Literally not much changes.

That is it apart from it being a rough cut a few alternate angles some different dialogue the Luke Binoculars Toshi station Biggs scenes a few tid bits here and there some incidental scenes.

This Dialogue is quite interesting

                               LUKE
                See Threepio ... do you copy?
                               THREEPIO
                I read you, sir.
                               LUKE
                Are you safe?
                               THREEPIO
                For the moment.  We're in the main hangar,
                across from the ship.
                               LUKE
                We're right above you.  Stand by.
Insert!      (Han is watching the dozen or so troops moving in and out of the
      starship).
                               HAN
                Getting back to the ship's going to
                be like flying through the Five Fire 
                Rings of Fornax.
                               LEIA
                You came in that thing?  You are braver
                than I thought! 
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oojason said:

Please feel free to post such claims and any others in your own ‘Lost Cut’ thread - but not in here - not without more substantiated evidence other than an assumed / ‘could have been’ scenario… thank you.
 

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The differences between the two fourth drafts don’t have anything to do with the lost cut. Only footage that was shot has any importance, and we have the Greedo footage that was presumably used in the lost cut right there. The existence of Montross in earlier drafts isn’t any more significant than other early draft differences.

Sure, it’s interesting to look at stuff that didn’t make it to the shooting script, but that should be discussed in a ‘script differences’ thread in the OT discussion area.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Yes I agree it is an assembly and it would have had for instance different options included within it.

My point about montross is that this was turned into a continuation of the Jabba scene first and unwritten if we are to trust the actor that originally played greedo.

Then a new version was filmed during principle photography that allowed for another option and a much better way to do the scene.

It is an assembly of options all on the table at once. You will have multiple takes of scenes also perhaps strung together it would not be like watching a film but multiple versions of scenes with options. At 13 reels it will have a lot of alternate angles and various dialogue changes and tonality deliverance of lines from actors.

It’s not that there is a massive amount more just that there are options to what is there with a bit of deleted scenes naturally most things are alternatives than a deleted scene in film.

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oojason said:

Please feel free to post such claims and any others in your own ‘Lost Cut’ thread - but not in here - not without more substantiated evidence other than an assumed / ‘could have been’ scenario… thank you.
 

Dek Rollins said:

Sure, it’s interesting to look at stuff that didn’t make it to the shooting script, but that should be discussed in a ‘script differences’ thread in the OT discussion area.

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Ronster said:

Yes I agree it is an assembly and it would have had for instance different options included within it.

My point about montross is that this was turned into a continuation of the Jabba scene first and unwritten if we are to trust the actor that originally played greedo.

Then a new version was filmed during principle photography that allowed for another option and a much better way to do the scene.

It is an assembly of options all on the table at once. You will have multiple takes of scenes also perhaps strung together it would not be like watching a film but multiple versions of scenes with options. At 13 reels it will have a lot of alternate angles and various dialogue changes and tonality deliverance of lines from actors.

It’s not that there is a massive amount more just that there are options to what is there with a bit of deleted scenes naturally most things are alternatives than a deleted scene in film.

I seriously doubt the rough cut included multiple different takes of the same scene in sequence. That’s not how a rough cut is assembled.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Ronster said:

Look I made a mistake apologies about that but I did note that the Alien yet to be named Greedo apeared on 4th Draft revised not on 4th Draft so it is safe to assume that Montross became Greedo in the re-write that was the main point, but it negates the need for the Jabba scene IMO but would still be included in an assembly.

This is an alternate angle for scene D42.

I actually think you’re right about this. The novelization and Titleman script both describe this scene opening with the graphic of the star chart. They’re also in the same positions as in the final film. Either this is an alternate angle which they discarded in lieu of the single take used in the final film, or there was originally an establishing shot.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Tack said:

Ronster said:

Look I made a mistake apologies about that but I did note that the Alien yet to be named Greedo apeared on 4th Draft revised not on 4th Draft so it is safe to assume that Montross became Greedo in the re-write that was the main point, but it negates the need for the Jabba scene IMO but would still be included in an assembly.

This is an alternate angle for scene D42.

I actually think you’re right about this. The novelization and Titleman script both describe this scene opening with the graphic of the star chart. They’re also in the same positions as in the final film. Either this is an alternate angle which they discarded in lieu of the single take used in the final film, or there was originally an establishing shot.

Or its a behind the scenes photo.

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Ronster said:

Yes I agree it is an assembly and it would have had for instance different options included within it.

My point about montross is that this was turned into a continuation of the Jabba scene first and unwritten if we are to trust the actor that originally played greedo.

Then a new version was filmed during principle photography that allowed for another option and a much better way to do the scene.

It is an assembly of options all on the table at once. You will have multiple takes of scenes also perhaps strung together it would not be like watching a film but multiple versions of scenes with options. At 13 reels it will have a lot of alternate angles and various dialogue changes and tonality deliverance of lines from actors.

It’s not that there is a massive amount more just that there are options to what is there with a bit of deleted scenes naturally most things are alternatives than a deleted scene in film.

My dear Ronster, what came before the shooting script is of little importance because it WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FILMED. There would be nothing to include in a rough cut of the film. That is what the lost cut is, a rough cut of the film. The first cut of the film I believe. It led to changing editors, lots of lines being trimmed, and lots of frames being trimmed in other places. So if you have valid information on something that was shot or if your research into trying to figure out if the shots in some scenes were reordered based on the sound mix, then you would contribute, but continuing to go back to much earlier drafts that had been discarded and bringing up theories that don’t fit the facts as we have them is just getting you in trouble. Download a copy of the shooting script. Read it. Memorize it. That is the guide to what was filmed. That was included in the lost cut. We know a heck of a lot about the filming schedule and can piece together if there was even room for anything extra, but there wasn’t money for it. So chances are that there was nothing filmed that wasn’t in the shooting script.

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yotsuya said:

Tack said:

Ronster said:

Look I made a mistake apologies about that but I did note that the Alien yet to be named Greedo apeared on 4th Draft revised not on 4th Draft so it is safe to assume that Montross became Greedo in the re-write that was the main point, but it negates the need for the Jabba scene IMO but would still be included in an assembly.

This is an alternate angle for scene D42.

I actually think you’re right about this. The novelization and Titleman script both describe this scene opening with the graphic of the star chart. They’re also in the same positions as in the final film. Either this is an alternate angle which they discarded in lieu of the single take used in the final film, or there was originally an establishing shot.

Or its a behind the scenes photo.

This

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yotsuya said:

Or its a behind the scenes photo.

The original script for D42: “Darth Vader and the regional Governor Moff Tarkin stand before a huge screen that shows a million stars. Admiral Motti and General Tagge are standing with them.”

There’s a number of reasons why it might have been cut, but considering the other images from David West Reynolds’ article are clearly screenshots, we shouldn’t rule this out.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Tack said:

yotsuya said:

Or its a behind the scenes photo.

The original script for D42: “Darth Vader and the regional Governor Moff Tarkin stand before a huge screen that shows a million stars. Admiral Motti and General Tagge are standing with them.”

There’s a number of reasons why it might have been cut, but considering the other images from David West Reynolds’ article are clearly screenshots, we shouldn’t rule this out.

Actually I think you’re right, this photo is taken from “The Evolution of Star Wars” by David Reynolds (in the famous The Star Wars Insider #41 where The Lost Cust was detailed).

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So I’m in the process of putting together my own video regarding the editing of Star Wars. My belief is that none of the deleted scenes that have been released come from the Jympson cut. Most of the analysis on what the Jympson cut is tends to focus on how scenes are ordered, what scenes were deleted, and little trims that were made to existing scenes.

If you look at the raw footage of Yoda’s death scene in Return of the Jedi it’s 31 minutes of alternate angles of the same 5 minute scene. For example there are 6 alternate angles of Mark Hamill saying, “Master Yoda, is Darth Vader my father,” a wide shot, a side profile close up, a front facing profile, an over the shoulder onto Yoda, a reverse over the shoulder onto Mark Hamill, a close up of Yoda.

https://youtu.be/Kz56q4t6fek

What this means is if you really wanted to you could cut a version of that line that used all 6 angles or just 5 or just 4 or just 2 or just 1. You could also reorder which of those angles you used where and for how long. Given that just that line lasts 5 seconds and the shortest amount of time you can hold a shot is 1/24th of a second, it means that there are over 42,000 ways you can cut just that line. Only a very small handful will be creatively effective from an audience standpoint.

What this means is that given that the second team started from scratch, building their version from the raw takes, the Jympson edit doesn’t so much contain different content. The content is more or less what was in the screenplay which dictated what the actors said and did. The difference is in the specific coverage used and the duration of each shot.

In other words it’s not possible to recreate the Jympson cut with anything close to reasonable precision, not without the raw footage itself and the Jympson cut to use as a guide which if you had it would negate needing the raw footage to begin with. But then having the raw footage would satisfy the nagging mystery that is at the heart of the interest in the lost cut.

The mystery evaporates once you understand the process of filmmaking. Jympson’s edit isn’t a different movie. It’s the same movie just cut differently. The issue is confused by the little trims that have come to light over the years (Han’s girlfriend, post TIE attack celebration, Tagge’s line about the Sith Lord). They cause fans to think that there’s an entirely different movie made up of entirely different conversations and stuff happening.

But it’s probably more in line with what this guy did with the raw takes of the Yoda death scene.

https://youtu.be/mAltoPhucto

You yourself could also take that same Yoda footage and come up with your own variations. And that’s ultimately what The Lost Cut is. Some guy’s decisions that are different from the decisions made by a different person whose decisions then became the official version.

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patbuddha said:

So I’m in the process of putting together my own video regarding the editing of Star Wars. My belief is that none of the deleted scenes that have been released come from the Jympson cut. Most of the analysis on what the Jympson cut is tends to focus on how scenes are ordered, what scenes were deleted, and little trims that were made to existing scenes.

If you look at the raw footage of Yoda’s death scene in Return of the Jedi it’s 31 minutes of alternate angles of the same 5 minute scene. For example there are 6 alternate angles of Mark Hamill saying, “Master Yoda, is Darth Vader my father,” a wide shot, a side profile close up, a front facing profile, an over the shoulder onto Yoda, a reverse over the shoulder onto Mark Hamill, a close up of Yoda.

https://youtu.be/Kz56q4t6fek

What this means is if you really wanted to you could cut a version of that line that used all 6 angles or just 5 or just 4 or just 2 or just 1. You could also reorder which of those angles you used where and for how long. Given that just that line lasts 5 seconds and the shortest amount of time you can hold a shot is 1/24th of a second, it means that there are over 42,000 ways you can cut just that line. Only a very small handful will be creatively effective from an audience standpoint.

What this means is that given that the second team started from scratch, building their version from the raw takes, the Jympson edit doesn’t so much contain different content. The content is more or less what was in the screenplay which dictated what the actors said and did. The difference is in the specific coverage used and the duration of each shot.

In other words it’s not possible to recreate the Jympson cut with anything close to reasonable precision, not without the raw footage itself and the Jympson cut to use as a guide which if you had it would negate needing the raw footage to begin with. But then having the raw footage would satisfy the nagging mystery that is at the heart of the interest in the lost cut.

The mystery evaporates once you understand the process of filmmaking. Jympson’s edit isn’t a different movie. It’s the same movie just cut differently. The issue is confused by the little trims that have come to light over the years (Han’s girlfriend, post TIE attack celebration, Tagge’s line about the Sith Lord). They cause fans to think that there’s an entirely different movie made up of entirely different conversations and stuff happening.

But it’s probably more in line with what this guy did with the raw takes of the Yoda death scene.

https://youtu.be/mAltoPhucto

You yourself could also take that same Yoda footage and come up with your own variations. And that’s ultimately what The Lost Cut is. Some guy’s decisions that are different from the decisions made by a different person whose decisions then became the official version.

Except in some cases there isn’t the coverage. So the Jympson cut will be identical to the final cut, except longer (and as has been pointed out, in the final cut, quite a number of shots use every usable frame).