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Star Wars: The Bad Batch (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * SPOILERS * — Page 5

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I’m just rewatching the 4 S7 episodes after a long time and I really like Wrecker. His childlike enthusiasm always cracks me up.

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A few articles / interviews / PR pieces with the creators doing the rounds for the show’s premiere (now available to watch)…

 

Star Wars: The Bad Batch crew talks season length, Omega and Imperial oppression’:-

https://www.cnet.com/news/star-wars-the-bad-batch-crew-talks-season-length-omega-and-imperial-oppression

^ According to the article there will be 16 episodes for the first season.

 

Star Wars: The Bad Batch producers promise ‘familiar faces’ on the show’:-

https://ew.com/tv/star-wars-the-bad-batch-jennifer-corbett-brad-rau

 

Star Wars: The Bad Batch Producers on New Characters, Familiar Planets, & Setting a Show During the Rise of the Empire’:-

https://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-bad-batch-producer-interview

 

Star Wars: The Bad Batch: How the Animated ‘Clone Wars’ Spin-Off Series Bridges the Original Trilogy’:-

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/05/new-star-wars-series-bad-batch-bridges-original-trilogy-1234634769

 

The Bad Batch proves Star Wars animation still has a story to tell’:-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/05/04/bad-batch-clone-wars-disney-plus

 

If You’ve Never Watched A Star Wars Animated Series Before, ‘The Bad Batch’ May Be For You’:-

https://uproxx.com/tv/star-wars-the-bad-batch-review
 

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Maybe I missed an announcement or a leak at some point but I was quite (positively) surprised at the 75 min. runtime of the first episode today. As for the story itself, it was pretty much what I expected, but I do in no way mean that as a negative. I like how it’s already feeling a lot like an eight season of TCW while still being it’s own thing.

MINOR SPOILER:
As a side note, I think it’s interesting how it re-wrote the moment from the Kaanan comics a few years back when Caleb witness the clones turn on his master. It’s technically not all that different; it’s mostly just the tone and setting that changed, but I’m glad that they’re not being too uptight about canon. I’d much rather have Filoni tell his story rather than have them force him to recreate a moment from a comic down to every little detail. Plus, I really enjoy watching Filoni’s corner of the EU connect like this, while at the same time you can easily watch The Bad Batch without having seen Rebels.

Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Amazon link to my first novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ZkinandBonez said:

MINOR SPOILER:
As a side note, I think it’s interesting how it re-wrote the moment from the Kaanan comics a few years back when Caleb witness the clones turn on his master. It’s technically not all that different; it’s mostly just the tone and setting that changed, but I’m glad that they’re not being too uptight about canon. I’d much rather have Filoni tell his story rather than have them force him to recreate a moment from a comic down to every little detail. Plus, I really enjoy watching Filoni’s corner of the EU connect like this, while at the same time you can easily watch The Bad Batch without having seen Rebels.

I just with they hadn’t brought back a 45-year-old man to voice a 14-year-old boy.
A great episode overall, though.

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

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Ed Slushie said:

ZkinandBonez said:

MINOR SPOILER:
As a side note, I think it’s interesting how it re-wrote the moment from the Kaanan comics a few years back when Caleb witness the clones turn on his master. It’s technically not all that different; it’s mostly just the tone and setting that changed, but I’m glad that they’re not being too uptight about canon. I’d much rather have Filoni tell his story rather than have them force him to recreate a moment from a comic down to every little detail. Plus, I really enjoy watching Filoni’s corner of the EU connect like this, while at the same time you can easily watch The Bad Batch without having seen Rebels.

I just with they hadn’t brought back a 45-year-old man to voice a 14-year-old boy.
A great episode overall, though.

It sounded fine enough to me, though yes, it did stand out a little as I recognized the voice. However, I feel like they did something to the audio to make him sound younger? I was thinking it was perhaps something similar to what they did with Mark Hamill’s voice for The Mandalorian, but it might just have been pitch shifted a little to make him sound a bit more like a teenager.

Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Amazon link to my first novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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They tried casting a teenager, but that felt even weirder and just didn’t fit the character.

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I knew people from school who sounded like that at that age. It wasn’t the most surprising part of the episode at all.

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I enjoyed it. I’m not deep invested in The Clone Wars series (but I do really like it). So for this, I’m just digging the ride, not sweating details.

They managed to give them an interesting reason to be on the move with unfinished business and some valuable cargo.

Given the amount of work that went into Clone Wars, the quality of this show wasn’t a surprise. Star Wars under Disney has really hit their stride on the various TV series.

Next one is Friday I think and then on to once a week. This will be a nice side adventure now that the MCU’s Wanda and Falcon are done for a while.

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Power up those shields, Princess.

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I wish they include Palpatine’s cut lines which are from ROTS which are “Any collaborators will suffer the same fate! These have been trying times, but we past the test! {Attempt on Life and resolve been stronger already in} The war is over, the separatists have been defeated, and the Jedi rebellion has been foiled. We stand on a thresehold of a new beginning! {After Palps says safe and secure society} Which I assure you will last 10,000 years! An empire that will be ruled by this august body and a sovereign ruler chosen for life! An empire ruled by the majority! Ruled by the new constitution!”. Shouldn’t they restore those cut lines? I think they should’ve done that.

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SandMTV said:

I wish they include Palpatine’s cut lines which are from ROTS which are “Any collaborators will suffer the same fate! These have been trying times, but we past the test! {Attempt on Life and resolve been stronger already in} The war is over, the separatists have been defeated, and the Jedi rebellion has been foiled. We stand on a thresehold of a new beginning! {After Palps says safe and secure society} Which I assure you will last 10,000 years! An empire that will be ruled by this august body and a sovereign ruler chosen for life! An empire ruled by the majority! Ruled by the new constitution!”. Shouldn’t they restore those cut lines? I think they should’ve done that.

They just pulled the audio from RotS, so lines that had been cut from that movie were kinda off the table. It’s meant to be that same Senate speech, rather than another recitation.

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JakeRyan17 said:

SandMTV said:

I wish they include Palpatine’s cut lines which are from ROTS which are “Any collaborators will suffer the same fate! These have been trying times, but we past the test! {Attempt on Life and resolve been stronger already in} The war is over, the separatists have been defeated, and the Jedi rebellion has been foiled. We stand on a thresehold of a new beginning! {After Palps says safe and secure society} Which I assure you will last 10,000 years! An empire that will be ruled by this august body and a sovereign ruler chosen for life! An empire ruled by the majority! Ruled by the new constitution!”. Shouldn’t they restore those cut lines? I think they should’ve done that.

They just pulled the audio from RotS, so lines that had been cut from that movie were kinda off the table. It’s meant to be that same Senate speech, rather than another recitation.

Yeah but the senate speech we see in the movies is abridged, they cut back to it like 3 different times.

Use the Force, Joh Yowza.

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I get that, but they were specifically trying to match what casual viewers were familiar with, not trying to expand or re-record.

The other parts of that speech aren’t important to the story, and would just bloat an already-70min episode.

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I thought this was a great episode. It had a nice pacing to it, building tension when necessary but never feeling drawn out, and also managing not to come across as rushed either, which is something I think TCW used to sometimes struggle with. I hope that’s maintained for the shorter episodes.

Crosshair got a raw deal, being the only one to respond to the chip - I hope they get it out and “redeem” him at some point. It was great to see Caleb, even if it is a bit of a retcon. I did notice that the Palpatine audio was taken directly from the movie, since you could tell when it had more or less reverb due to the movie cutting to and from close-ups and the wider senate chamber, but it worked well enough for the scene.

I suppose from that recommended TCW episode list that we’ll be seeing Gregor again? This show is in a really cool spot in the timeline for bridging TCW and Rebels, and the PT and the OT, and maybe even tying in elements from the ST, Fallen Order, The Mandalorian etc.

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I loved it and I feel that it provides some interesting thoughts. Boba has a sister now. That’s cool.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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So I think this first episode really fits in with Revenge of the sith. Since Bad Batch goes to Onderon which takes place during Padme going to Mustafar hence Saw Gerrera being in Revenge of the Sith.

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Sand, I don’t think Saw Gerrera is in Revenge of the Sith.

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I thought the pacing was actually a little slow, although usually I don’t mind that at all. It IS nice that they’re able to stretch the introduction to this series out, and not rush it. The characters are already even better than they are in the Clone Wars arc, I love the ominous depiction of the birth of the Empire, and every shot in this episode is a visual masterpiece. I really like Omega, and I’m glad she’s been added to the main group. She’s the foil to some of them in a way, but it also shows that such outcasts need to stick together.

I haven’t read the Kanan comics (yet…) but I do know how widely loved they are. There are a lot of people disappointed that the original scene of Depa Billaba’s death, which they see as more developed and emotional, has been retconned, and I share their concern that Lucasfilm can so easily disregard the canonicity of published books and comics. However, the scene works best for the show in this way, I think it’s still handled very well, and I don’t care about similar differences in canon much anyway. I can still enjoy both the kanan comic run (I’m sure I will) and The Bad Batch just as much, it doesn’t detract from the quality of either of them.

In summary:
That was quite an impressive display.
Yet the writers exhibit a concerning level of disregard for other publishing projects…

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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I think Star Wars canon has always been kind of tiered, and allowed for “a certain point of view”…

Kanan comics are him retelling the events, not the events happening in the main narrative. So, mis-remembering which parts happened when to emphasise the emotional truth isn’t necessarily discontinuitous.

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StarWarsExplained summarized the issue of canon changes quite well in video he just posted.

Star Wars: Dealing with Retcons and Canon Changes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trw-RKUHYgI - 6 mins long.

Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Amazon link to my first novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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For me, it’s not even about the idea of Lucasfilm disregarding comic/novel canon or other armchair Story Group concerns - I just feel like the change actually takes away from Kanan’s overall backstory. While the broad strokes lead him to the same-ish place, his trauma and pain almost feel less earned than it had been?

We never got a concrete exploration of it in Rebels ofc, but even without the comic, the situation is talked as heartbreaking primarily for specific thematic reasons. The comics only provided an explicit version of those events that dominantly interpreted the ideas Rebels alluded to: Caleb finally feels at home (they had just won the battle), secure in his place in the galaxy - with his master and his close friendship with clones like Grey and Styles. That being when the rug is pulled out from under him is undeniably as tragic as it is confusing, and breaks his trust for a long time.

Not that the situation isn’t inherently sad in Bad Batch, but the sudden confusion of it all is the dominant emotion. Which makes sense for the perspective of the Bad Batch, but the tangible adjustments made to the sequence (time, setting, players involved) do no favors for Kanan’s character. He’s now accompanied by clones he just met that day - who don’t even end up really wanting to hurt him, one of them even letting him get away, and he knows it. It’s just such an odd sequence that leaves mixed themes.

I don’t typically mind retcons at all, truly; the Ahsoka planet/saber stuff from S7 or the lekku stuff from Mando was silly controversy to me, but this one feels off because it’s not even a better change, and it would have been easy for it to not have been Caleb.

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I don’t think the emotional aspects you’re mentioning have changed. He obviously doesn’t know the Bad Batch don’t want to kill him, since Crosshair tries to kill him twice. He’s also played as being incredibly happy prior to Order 66, and his emotional shift isn’t to confusion but to fight and flight. I don’t think his character development has been negatively impacted at all.

Also, again, the comic shows how he remembers it, not how it happened. The campfire sequence might’ve been the night before, etc. The comic specifically used a narrative trope that can highlight his emotional truth rather than a literal truth.

Of every continuity error, retcon, or shifting perspective, this one seems the least problematic to me.

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NFBisms said:

this one feels off because it’s not even a better change, and it would have been easy for it to not have been Caleb.

I agree with this.

I’ve been thinking about this issue more and more, and I’m growing more worried about it. I actually like the retcon of E.K. Johnson’s ‘Ahsoka’ novel, I don’t mind the retcon of Cobb Vanth’s backstory in Chuck Wendig’s ‘Aftermath’, but now this… are Lucasfilm just ignoring Star Wars book and comic fans? Sure, they’re not as popular, but to many of the fans who do read them, they mean so much. I’m a Rebels fan, and Kanan Jarrus is one of my favourite star wars characters, so I don’t say this lightly: I don’t think they should have included Caleb in the opening scene. Firstly of course, I think it’s crossed a line in retconning a piece of star wars media which many regard as one of their favourite star wars things; but also, Caleb Dume is a character who we already have prior investment in, so the focus of the scene is away from where it should be: the Bad Batch, and the decisions they make in the moment. We also know that Caleb escapes anyway, so there’s less tension than there would be if it was a random padawan. This isn’t a retcon out of necessity, as the retcons in Clone Wars season 7 and The Mandalorian arguably were, it seems to be a retcon because Dave Filoni and the lead writers felt like it.

I’m just worried we’ll get to a point where I won’t be able to pick up a new star wars book or comic without fear that it’ll be retconned at the slightest opportunity.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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Oh no, now Dave is as evil as Kathleen Kennedy because he directed characters he created to have a backstory he desired!

Everyone working on Star Wars must hate the fans and want them to hate Star Wars, because that’s the only reason any of them would do anything, and that makes sense for a company to intentionally make their products worse!

/s

In reality, they think about it a lot. But they always focus on what’s best for the current story they’re telling, not for what perfectly aligns to other stories. The comic told this part of the story in the manner that served the comic best, and Aftermath told it from the perspective that served The Bad Batch best. Both can co-exist, and neither is a slight against the other.

Catering to fan whims is how we got The Rise of Skywalker. So, while I don’t think they’re antipathetic toward fans of the publishing side of things, and I don’t think writers on the publishing side intentionally don’t talk to people on the shows, I feel like fans don’t realise how much is going on at any given time, how many people are involved, and how impossible it would be to keep more strict continuity.

There’s a reason most of publishing has shifted to areas of the timeline where current shows and movies are not taking place.

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JakeRyan17 said:

Oh no, now Dave is as evil as Kathleen Kennedy because he directed characters he created to have a backstory he desired!

Everyone working on Star Wars must hate the fans and want them to hate Star Wars, because that’s the only reason any of them would do anything, and that makes sense for a company to intentionally make their products worse!

Yeah, for the record, I’m not the type of person who genuinely believes this! I still have the utmost respect for Dave Filoni and Kathleen Kennedy. BUT I don’t even believe including Kanan was the best thing for the story of The Bad Batch, and it’s just a retcon because the writers felt like it.

Although, as Alex from SW Explained says in his video, I do love seeing TCW and Rebels connect up, so I’m not complaining too much.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”