Star Wars OT & 1997 Special Edition - Various Projects Info (Released) — Page 24

I hadn't planned on it, since it's a hybrid not representing an official mix, and most of it is the same as the '93 version, so it seemed best to release it as 5.1 only.  But I'll be glad to make the links for the stereo file available to anyone who wants it.

Yeah, all of my mixes were made primarily from the 1993 laserdisc PCM tracks, so they have the full dynamic range and power of those versions.  Add the custom LFE channel derived from the special editions on top of that and you've got a seriously awesome sounding mix for each film.  ;)

I don't know for sure that the Empire GOUT came from a vhs master source, but its restricted dynamics compared to the laserdisc make it a likely possibility.  Combined with the non-defeatable 4 db reduction in total volume that comes from the Dialnorm parameter in the AC3 stream, the result sounds very anemic, much less powerful than it should.

I don't think the other two films are dynamically compressed as Empire is, but they do still have the Dialnorm reduction, which again makes them sound weaker than the laserdiscs at any given volume setting.  Raising the gain by 4 db to compensate when playing the GOUT will narrow the discrepancy, making any difference solely the result of lossy compression encoding.  Obviously Empire still won't equal the original, but the difference won't seem as drastic.  Regardless, the laserdisc versions are certainly preferable since no adjustments need to be made to achieve the best sound.

Still, it does just what it says on the tin: it lets you rewrite the dialog norm to any value without re-encoding.

lol, that's pretty much my point, the dialnorm can trick you into thinking something sounds less good than it ought to, when really the only thing going on is that the comparison isn't staged on fair terms.  It's not always easy to tell the exact reason for something sounding a certain way.

Dolby's documentation explicitly states that dialnorm does not in any way alter the dynamic range of the program material.  It only reduces the entire volume of the audio by the amount specified.  For whatever reason, many ac3 encodes including the GOUT are reduced by 4 db, which seems to be a default setting, without regard to the actual levels of the mix being encoded.  This can fool the ear into thinking it has been dynamically compressed when compared to a non-reduced version, such as the laserdisc pcm in this case.  This may also be one reason why people think DTS to be superior to Dolby, because they automatically assume the version that is louder by default to be better, when in fact level-matching the two is necessary to make an accurate comparison.

Dynamic range compression profiles can also be part of an ac3 encode, but they rely on accurate dialnorm settings to work properly.

I still swear I read somewhere that the AC3 mixes on DVDs were "broken" by the need to keep them sounding good on less-than-5.1 equipment. Something about encoding Prologic info in them as well? The channels in the DTS mixes, not being the default mix, could stay theatrically discrete.

This issue supposedly wasn't the case with Laserdisc, which may be another reason LD mixes sound better.

DE

Darth Editous said:

I still swear I read somewhere that the AC3 mixes on DVDs were "broken" by the need to keep them sounding good on less-than-5.1 equipment.

I've heard allegations of that kind of thing before, but I've never been able to find a clear answer on exactly what the differences might be.  It probably varies a lot with each film and by who is doing the remixing.  There could be issues with the phase and timing of the surround channels that might theoretically affect the quality of a downmix, perhaps.  But honestly, if they're so concerned about making the mixes ideal for being played on less than stellar equipment, why not create a 2.0 downmix especially for that purpose and make it the default track on the disc?  That way people watching it through tv speakers or whatever can just put the disc in and watch with a mix idealised for them, and people with proper home theatre setups who actively care about this sort of thing can manually select the proper 5.1 track.

Some dvd's, such as recent Pixar releases, actually do this, and I think it's a great way to go.  Compromising a mix just so it will sound better on lesser equipment owned by people who don't care about sound anyway, when there is absolutely no real need to do so, would be the height of foolishness.

I've heard that some some laserdisc 5.1 tracks have the surround channels set too high, because they forgot to recalibrate the mix for the smaller home environment.  Still, that's easy to correct in the receiver setup (just don't forget to change it back later), and having the real theatrical mix is always a plus.

Dunedain said:

If you are short on DL DVD-R's to test the final results, I'm sure some fellows on the forum could help with that. Well worth it so these can be mastered from the uncompressed source files for playing in a DVD player at the highest possible quality. :)

Well if any of you have any lying around I would surely take and use them, anyone who does send a pack of DL's WILL get their versions burned for them and then sent to them without having to wait for downloading(you will be the first to see them), I will also throw in the '97 SE v2 set as well, but these are only DVD5's, I have PLENTY of Tayo's for these, I ONLY use Verbatim DVD+R DL made in Singapore, all the rest are crap and will not hold up.

1 member here already took advantage of this, plus he had a "special" request for his own personal set and I have done this for him, it was the least I could do for sending some Verb DL blanks(30 Pack), Thank you man!

right now to test I have to compress the shit out of the files and burn to a DVD5, this really sux LOL

1 more thing, anyone who sends a pack of DL's will also get The Empire Strikes Back Imperial Edition by ABC and myself, so that is 4 bonuses, plus you see this v3 set before everyone else.

Hey dark_jedi that sounds like a good deal.

But you do realise people are probably going to be sending you packs of DL's now you've said that? You'll probably end up with more than you would know what to do with. LOL :D

Damn, now I need to scrape together some cash so I can send you a pack of DL's!

Maybe you should define "pack". 

Well, if 3 are coming back to you with copies of the GOUT V3 on them, you still want DJ to be left with enough that he can use for testing purposes, yes?  So I'd say a pack of 10 at least.

Can people who live in the U.K. send DL discs also ?

alphabetty spaghetti said:

Can people who live in the U.K. send DL discs also ?

PM sent.

LeeThorogood said:

 

alphabetty spaghetti said:

Can people who live in the U.K. send DL discs also ?

Same question here.

 

PM sent.

rockin said:

Hey dark_jedi that sounds like a good deal.

But you do realise people are probably going to be sending you packs of DL's now you've said that? You'll probably end up with more than you would know what to do with. LOL :D

well no one has committed yet but 1 guy here, so we will see, it is cool either way, by NO MEANS is anyone at all obligated, these will be out for everyone sooner or later, although I wish I could keep them from some people.