Star Wars OT & 1997 Special Edition - Various Projects Info (Released) — Page 13

Vader must have been walking in water LOL, the splash is on the LD.

Because Luke hears it and looks right in the direction of Vader, so he had to have stepped in a puddle.

ChainsawAsh said:

Getting through ESB is slow going at the moment, what with cooking dinner and running back and forth between home and Jewel...

This may be my most off-topic post ever, which is saying something.

A long long time ago, when we lived in Chicago, my father worked at Jewel for a bit.

Ok, I just spent a good long while checking the ESB file.  For the most part it seems good, but it still needs a bit of work.  I haven't actually checked the whole film, but I went through enough of it to make informed observations.

I noticed the sound at the start that was already pointed out, but it would be relatively simple to replace that with silence.  Compared to the '93 mix, the very beginning of the Fox fanfare seems to be missing--no idea whether it was an error in capturing or if the laserdisc itself is like that.  It's only a small fragment of the music, but noticeable.

The synch varies with time as the movie goes along.  Sometimes it is very close, differing from the '93 mix by as little as 2 milliseconds, but often it lags behind by nearly 40 milliseconds, which is approximately equivalent to one frame of film.  As I suspected, the loss of synch often occurs around the reel change times that Darth Mallwalker posted.  I'm not sure exactly how much of a problem this actually is, practically speaking--some people may notice it, others may not.  I've only been comparing the audio tracks to each other, not with the video, so I can't comment on that directly.

There is one definite error that is in need of fixing, and this occurs at the break between sides 4 and 5 of the LD.  Side 4 ends just as the door to the carbon freeze chamber shuts behind Luke, with side 5 beginning as he is brought up into the room before he meets Vader.  There is a significant gap of silence, approximately 0.076 seconds in length, which creates a distracting jump cut in the sound.  This is probably not directly fixable from the laserdisc alone, due to missing frames around the side change.  To create a seamless bridge between the sides, another mix would have to be used to patch over this section.

If you are referring to the two ignition sounds when Luke reaches his lightsaber in the wampa cave, the 35mm mix has always sounded this way--it may be an error, but one on the part of the film mixers themselves if so.  The splashing sound in the Dagobah cave has likewise always been there.  Observations of improved ambience in the 35mm mix as compared to the '93 are explainable in two ways.  One, as has been stated, the dynamic limiting means that the quieter sounds are elevated, allowing them to be heard more prominently; a similar immersion can probably be achieved from the '93 if the gain is raised to bring the average volume to the same level (which will also make the much higher dynamic peaks of the '93 mix that much more noticeable).  Two, the EQ of the 35mm version is different, placing more emphasis on the higher frequencies, which lends itself to greater detection of small background sounds.  Ultimately I prefer the more robust EQ of the '93 version, but your mileage may vary.

I did notice that there is a fair amount of high frequency noise throughout the whole thing, most evident during quiet sections.  It sounds like tape hiss some of the time, but I think the analog equipment used to play and capture the audio from the laserdisc is the most likely culprit.  How much of an issue that is to d_j or to listeners, I don't know.

Been discussing this mix with Darth Mallwalker, and I'm going to compare it to a digital version from a later laserdisc release, to try to determine whether the same 35mm mix was always used before 1993 or whether it was remixed in 1985 as ANH was (I believe it was probably not remixed, but I haven't heard it yet).  It sounds like he's got a high quality capture setup, so I'm probably going to end up synching this myself based on his files and on the reel change times he indicated.  dark_jedi, would you prefer to wait for me to do that or use your own for the dvd?

Either way, I'm still doing the music-edited 5.1--just got a bit distracted from it.  :)

I'd like to know for sure if Empire was remixed in 1985 or not.  If it wasn't, it stands to reason that Jedi wasn't, either.

However, I have to say, I've been listening to DJ's capture on mixing-quality Sennheiser headphones, and I haven't noticed any tape hiss as you mentioned.

I have noticed what may be distortion due to capturing in the scene where Luke's X-Wing is flying through Dagobah's atmosphere, but that may have also been intentional (almost like the X-Wing's instruments are getting static from the atmosphere or something).

If the post-1985 LD was in fact remixed, I'd sync it anyway - it'd be nice to have the 1980, 1985, and 1993 mixes all synced for posterity.

TV's Frink said:

This may be my most off-topic post ever, which is saying something.

A long long time ago, when we lived in Chicago, my father worked at Jewel for a bit.

If it was the Jewel at Roosevelt and Ashland, that's the one I was at.

I have not heard any hiss either, and I have come this far with it I would like to finish it, I will look into what you have mentioned as far as errors and also listen again for this "tape hiss" but as many people have said about any audio edits they have done, these are never going to be 100% perfect, I am not a sound studio, and don't have access to thousand dollar equipment LOL, but for what I am doing here, I think I have something very much usable(I hope).

and 1 thing always comes to mind whenever I do a project, you will never please everyone, that is just the way it is.

I will go back and take a listen to your points of interest, I also thank you tremendously for taking the time to find them, and if you and Darth Mallwalker are doing this to than that is cool to, the more the merrier.

The easiest place to hear it was in the silence between the Fox fanfare and the main title.  It can plainly be seen in the waveform as well as heard.  It sounds like the same kind of noise I used to get when recording things through a line out--a high noise floor is to be expected from non-hifi analog equipment.  It's not a particularly significant issue, I scarcely noticed it most of the time, but it's just a subtle thing going on in the background that was definitely not there when I switched to the '93 mix.  It would be easy enough to silence the section before the main title, and the rest of it could be left alone.  I wouldn't worry about it, just wanted to point it out is all.

I think you've done a great job with this d_j, it shouldn't take too much more work to finish it.  This whole thing has intrigued me enough to want to make my own attempt, but I don't want to detract from the work you've done by doing so.  :)

Finished (finally)!

Here's what I noticed in the last hour of the film:

- There may be a skip of some kind after Yoda says "No, there is another."  I could very easily be wrong about this, it's nowhere near as glaring as the next one, and it could easily be another curious thing about the mix like the double-igniting lightsaber.
- There IS, as hairy_hen noted, a glaring side change skip at around 1:39:26, as Luke enters the carbon freezing chamber.  This is very distracting and needs to be fixed.

Other than that (and I'm not even sure the first one is an issue), I didn't notice any sync issues whatsoever.  I don't doubt that hairy_hen's analysis of the sync being up to a frame off in parts, but I never noticed it, or at least it wasn't distracting to me.

I did notice that there isn't much that's significantly different between this mix and the '93 in the same way that ANH's mixes differ.  It's little things, but being the purist I am, I'm glad to have the real original mix available.  And some things (*ahem*Snowspeeder sound effect*ahem*) that ARE different are, in my personal opinion, very important.

Once this is finished, I'll never watch ESB with a different audio mix again (with the likely exception of hairy_hen's forthcoming 5.1 mix).

You've done a man's job, sir!  ROTJ is up tomorrow...

--edit--

Holy shit, the double-igniting-lightsaber effect is in the 93 mix too!  How did I never notice that?!

No one is raining on my parade, because ultimately I decide on what I am going to put on my version of the DVD, it just seems coincidental now that there are more people that are working on this now that I said I was going to add it to v3, the 1980 stereo from the LD that is.

So by all means do your version as well, once the DVD's are done and people want to swap it out for yours, that is fine by me.

msycamore said:

I actually think it could've been on one single line in the theater, this is maybe not so important but please tell me what you think and how you want it.

msycamore, I trust your judgment on this one, you have researched this way more than I have, I am going to use yours subs whether they are 100% correct or not, who knows you may find more info soon on it anyways, we are still a little ways off from doing Jedi anyways.

OK the "tape hiss" which I still did not hear and did not see a wav in Vegas is gone now I hope, and the scene where Luke enters the Carbon Freeze Chamber, well that was a frack up on my part, I had the the gap still between the sides LOL, it is now filled in, and while going back forth up & down the timeline in Vegas I noticed a couple more errors that no one else caught, well those a re corrected now to.

So ChainsawAsh and msycamore get ready for another PM, this new file was encoded @ 192 so I can make sure I have room on the DVD for the other audio tracks.

Thanks Ady

I also want to let everyone know exactly where I am at now with the v3 set, SW and ESB are 7 pass CCE SP2 encoded @ 6500 avg(Thanks g-force for the GREAT script), I have the main menu for all 3, waiting on audio selection menu(Thanks Sluggo)all menu's will have sound, I am using msycamores sub script on both SW and ROTJ, and here is the audio files I have so far, I won't know what fits and what doesn't until I start authoring the DVD's.

Star Wars - 77 Stereo, '93 Stereo, hairy_hen 70mm 5.1, 77 Mono.

Empire Strikes Back - 80 Stereo, hairy_hen music-edited 5.1, 93 Stereo.

Return Of The Jedi - 83 Stereo, hairy_hen music-edited 5.1, 93 Stereo.

anyone have any other ideas, let them roll.

Just a quick question.

You guys are very technical and very scholar about all this as I don't, and I haven't followed the thread that far so, sorry if it sounds weird...

The last post from D_J mention a stereo mix. Are you making both stereo and 5.1 ? And if you make the later, does it means it has lower bitrate as it should take more space while the movie plays or what ?

... Or does a only-2track stereo mix on the DVD allows to have higher bitrate ?

That said I'd have love to have been able to try reediting and layer something like my work on ESB... Just only a dream...

Bonus question: are you upmixing yourself the stereo mixes to 5.1 if you make ones ?

ABC, all are stereo mixes except for the version hairy_hen and satanika did, the 80 esb mix I am working on is stereo and I will not upmix to 5.1, I have done tons of upmixes for edits I have done where the extended or deleted scenes were only 2.0 and the film was 5.1, so I had to upmix to get a perfect match up.

hope this answered your question.

OH, and as far as bitrate, on Star Wars I used 192 on the 3 stereo mixes, 96 on the mono, and hairy_hen 5.1 is 448 to get them all to fit, because the video is at 6500 avg.

A B C said:

That said I'd have love to have been able to try reediting and layer something like my work on ESB... Just only a dream...

What do you mean by this, making a score only soundtrack on the film? if that is what you mean that would be very cool.

I made a sample DVD of Star wars to test how msycamores subs look and to go through and see if I could have 5 audio options for SW, well it worked ALL 5 audio options WILL be available on Star Wars, and the subs look GREAT!

speaking of audio mixes, is there anything detailing the differences between all these mixes? I would love to read the differences.

also any feedback yet on my latest ,80 ESB stereo mix from you guys that got it?

Ripplin said:

dark_jedi said:

A B C said:

That said I'd have love to have been able to try reediting and layer something like my work on ESB... Just only a dream...

What do you mean by this, making a score only soundtrack on the film? if that is what you mean that would be very cool.

Very cool indeed. The only fan disc I can think of with an isolated score is one EditDroid did, but I'm sure there are others. What an excellent [other] way it would be to enjoy A B C's work. Could [hypothetically] be done with all three movies, as he has remastered the entire originally trilogy...more than once.

I would give it a shot if all ABC's music was in order and I got a little help on where to start it in the film, I tried doing this at one time on my "The Mummy" HD project, I love the score to that but I only got about a third of the way through it before it got to hard to tell where the score ended and the other started with all the action and effects and dialogue.