Earlier shots with color correction:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/40009 (This one looks a bit too grainy to my eyes, even though I applied the same amount grain to other scenes.)
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/40015 (Like this one a lot, really shows you how crappy the blurays are)
Apologies for simplifying for what you've done, but it's astounding how much the picture can improve with the basic premise of "throw some grain on that bitch."
DavidMerrick said:
Apologies for simplifying for what you've done, but it's astounding how much the picture can improve with the basic premise of "throw some grain on that bitch."
No, that's fine. I'm just saying simple grain thrown on wouldn't look that good.
It looks to me, based on the unaltered screenshots, like you've started off with video decoded using the wrong colour matrix. See this:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/40082
The "over" image is the raw BD correctly decoded with the rec.709 matrix.
Possibly not a massive deal if you're colour correcting everything anyway, but HD material should always be decoded to RGB with rec.709, not rec.601.
I sometimes wonder if a small part of the complaints about the colour of the blu-rays is down to this.
It's also why Ady's videos were the wrong colour on YouTube. YouTube always uses rec709, both for SD and HD (it should only really be used for HD). My guess is his videos were (incorrectly) encoded with rec601, which would then look fine on his player (some, again, incorrectly use rec601) but would be wrong on YouTube.
DE
Darth Editous said:
It looks to me, based on the unaltered screenshots, like you've started off with video decoded using the wrong colour matrix. See this:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/40082
The "over" image is the raw BD correctly decoded with the rec.709 matrix.
Possibly not a massive deal if you're colour correcting everything anyway, but HD material should always be decoded to RGB with rec.709, not rec.601.
I sometimes wonder if a small part of the complaints about the colour of the blu-rays is down to this.
It's also why Ady's videos were the wrong colour on YouTube. YouTube always uses rec709, both for SD and HD (it should only really be used for HD). My guess is his videos were (incorrectly) encoded with rec601, which would then look fine on his player (some, again, incorrectly use rec601) but would be wrong on YouTube.
DE
Well, I usually edit from lagarith avi converted directly from the raw m2ts file, but here I just used VLC to take snapshots, as this isn't a project I'm directly working on right now. That might be the issue, if it's not how do I make sure it's rec.709?
Huh. That's really amazing; it seems very counterintuitive that adding noise to the video would improve its look and seemingly bring out detail.
Does it really bring out detail, or is it just our perception? That's a serious question; it looks that great.
Let me put on my dunce hat and ask a stupid question. Wouldn't 35mm grain be more authentic for the OT than 70mm, even if 70mm looks better?
Hal 9000 said:
Huh. That's really amazing; it seems very counterintuitive that adding noise to the video would improve its look and seemingly bring out detail.
Does it really bring out detail, or is it just our perception? That's a serious question; it looks that great.
Let me put on my dunce hat and ask a stupid question. Wouldn't 35mm grain be more authentic for the OT than 70mm, even if 70mm looks better?
Technically yes, but I really want to make the OT shine a bit more, plus I'm not making it with little grain. It's still grainy (grainier than the Bluray's), but it's with a really fine grain, something too fine for 35mm.
And yes, there is actually more detail there, the grain just helps to fill in and remove any digital artifacts.
I've always felt this scene was too dark with little shadow detail.
emanswfan said:
And yes, there is actually more detail there, the grain just helps to fill in and remove any digital artifacts.
That is fascinating to me. Could you elaborate a bit on that? Isn't it just like re-sharpening a blurred image?
Does anyone have the tools to apply emanswfan's process to GOUT footage or elements? His manipulations really make the images "pop" and I wonder if they would likewise bring out details in the LD transfers.
emanswfan said:
I've always felt this scene was too dark with little shadow detail.
These are jaw dropping. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is probably going to be more popular than Gout: Extremely Cruddy Edition.
DavidMerrick said:
Does anyone have the tools to apply emanswfan's process to GOUT footage or elements? His manipulations really make the images "pop" and I wonder if they would likewise bring out details in the LD transfers.
I'm not experienced with processing the GOUT so I'm sure I could get an image with less artifacts, if I did the correct way.
Here are two comparisons between my bluray player's upscale and my process with 35mm grain (not 70mm, just because it is too small to do anything to footage that was originally SD):
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/40155
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/40162
(Chromatic abberation is a bit too strong in the second shot)
The concept is awesome, but why go with SE? Wouldn't it be better to wait for -1 relase, or maybe use DeEd?
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emanswfan said:
I've always felt this scene was too dark with little shadow detail.
I'd say that every scene in the movie is too dark. You've done a good job removing the green haze and brightening the image, but it looks like Luke's shirt is still too red, and R2 may be a bit too blue.
JEDIT: Looking at it again, I notice that the shadows seem to be more crushed than in the blu-ray.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Yep I don't think this method adds much to Gout, as it doesnt seem theres enough information there to finesse, it kind of ends up look a bit like a Seurat painting whereas with the BluRay it looks much more lifelike.
Feallan said:
The concept is awesome, but why go with SE? Wouldn't it be better to wait for -1 relase, or maybe use DeEd?
I guess I could go with Harmy's Despecialized, I just wanted to make the best picture quality possible which would have to come straight from the bluray itself. Though if I did, it would be fully automatic as I could essentially just let it render the whole films with the same settings.
NeverarGreat said:
I'd say that every scene in the movie is too dark. You've done a good job removing the green haze and brightening the image, but it looks like Luke's shirt is still too red, and R2 may be a bit too blue.
JEDIT: Looking at it again, I notice that the shadows seem to be more crushed than in the blu-ray.
Yeh, I wasn't liking Luke's shirt and was still tweaking R2 a bit. The shadows have more contrast, but they do not lose any detail from the bluray, they are brighter in the bluray but not brighter with detail.
emanswfan said:
Well, I usually edit from lagarith avi converted directly from the raw m2ts file, but here I just used VLC to take snapshots, as this isn't a project I'm directly working on right now. That might be the issue, if it's not how do I make sure it's rec.709?
And yes, there is actually more detail there...
...the edges are crisp because of added detail...
Darth Editous said:
I'm not clear what you really mean - adding noise may make it look more detailed, but there must be less information than before, unless you've actually gone in and painted those details in yourself.
DE
Okay this is with the proper color space and just the detail enhancement. No grain or sharpening.
Okay this is with the proper color space and just the detail enhancement. No grain or sharpening.
emanswfan said:
I guess I could go with Harmy's Despecialized, I just wanted to make the best picture quality possible which would have to come straight from the bluray itself. Though if I did, it would be fully automatic as I could essentially just let it render the whole films with the same settings.
IMO you should go with Harmy's version. SE looking like 70mm film is nice, but it's still SE. I'd download your edit, be amazed by those colors and grain, and then see Greedo shooting first, or some other dumb change. :/
Now, DeEd edited by you could make us feel like we were in Senator Theatre. I love that colors, so it probably would be my favourite edit. :)
I have one request though. Could you edit one of these frames, so we could compare it?
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Darth Editous said:
Okay this is with the proper color space and just the detail enhancement. No grain or sharpening.
You say "no sharpening" but that looks a lot like sharpening to me - Photoshop Sharpen More faded to 50% (plus a little colour blurring) is practically indistinguishable:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/40229
DE
It looks sharper, but I never even added one sharpening filter. I usually soften the picture more before adding the grain though. Some of the earlier comparisons I did accidentally add post-downscale sharpening, which shouldn't be there.
Feallan said:
emanswfan said:
I guess I could go with Harmy's Despecialized, I just wanted to make the best picture quality possible which would have to come straight from the bluray itself. Though if I did, it would be fully automatic as I could essentially just let it render the whole films with the same settings.
IMO you should go with Harmy's version. SE looking like 70mm film is nice, but it's still SE. I'd download your edit, be amazed by those colors and grain, and then see Greedo shooting first, or some other dumb change. :/
Now, DeEd edited by you could make us feel like we were in Senator Theatre. I love that colors, so it probably would be my favourite edit. :)
I have one request though. Could you edit one of these frames, so we could compare it?
Damn it, I didn't explain properly what I had in mind. I was thinking of comparison between one of Senator's camera shots, and the same shot from blu-ray (or even better, DeEd), edited by you.
That image still looks nice though. I like how sharper it is comparing to original.
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Darth Editous said:
It's also why Ady's videos were the wrong colour on YouTube. YouTube always uses rec709, both for SD and HD (it should only really be used for HD). My guess is his videos were (incorrectly) encoded with rec601, which would then look fine on his player (some, again, incorrectly use rec601) but would be wrong on YouTube.
DE
No, the videos are always encoded using rec709