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Star Wars OT ANH - PAL Laserdisc transfer

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Hi,

I am doing yet another Laserdisc to DVD transfer. Only difference is that I will make PAL versions.
AFAIK only NTSC transfers exist, so I thougt it is time for a PAL version. I have several german Star Wars PAL LDs and started working on this Project a few weeks ago.
I just finished my first draft ANH DVD and would really like to get some opinions from you.
I created a (pathetic) little website wich some info, screenshots, and movie samples.
My Star Wars PAL DVD Project

DVD features:
16:9 anamorphic PAL version
dual language (english, german) in video track (opening text, alien subtitle sequences) and audio
animated menus

Sources were my german PAL THX CAV-Laserdiscs from 1995 (german version of the "Faces" US-Set), and the british USS Executor VHS Set (english audiotrack only).

Greetings,
Grisan
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Thats good. I hope to one day see a pal version. Good luck. Do German laserdisc come up for sale that much?

Wait, I am sorry I couldn't play the thing!

looking for HDTV of the  Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy

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Couldn't the people who scale the video back to 24 fps just as easily make the video NTSC as PAL?
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Yes, this is possible. If you have an IVTC-ed Movie you can easily convert it to PAL by playing the frames with 25 fps instead of 24 (23,976) fps.
You still have to do some frame resizing to match PAL - DVD resolution (Full D1 720x576 or 704x576). Usually this should be avoided because NTSC (720x480) only has 83% of PAL resolution.
Because of the higher resolution, an original PAL source is much better than any NTSC to PAL conversion could be.
A PAL to NTSC conversion would be more reasonable, because PAL is not telecined and can easily encoded as NTSC. The picture is also probably a bit sharper than a NTSC transfer because of PALs higher res.

But I actually did this kind of NTSC-tp-PAL conversion for my current DVD version.
I do not have an english PAL-LD to capture the opening text (and Greedo scene) for my DVD, so I used the scenes from Dr.Gonzos DVD (which already was ivtc-ed to 23,976 fps and anamorpic) and converted it to PAL by resizing and fps changing. Of course the quality is worse than a direct PAL LD - capture would be, but it is still better than VHS.

Greetings
Grisan
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Grisan,

First - Welcome to the forum!!!!!!!!!!

Second - BEST of luck!! An actual PAL version would be great for those with PAL only DVD players!

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Hey, Grisan.... wenn du Hilfe brauchst, schick mir mal ne Mail... ich wäre SEHR an einer PAL-Version der OT interessiert. Kannst ja mal HIER gucken, was ich aus einigen NTSC-Captures noch rausgeholt habe.
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mate, I think you have to use a better source than Gonzo's and vhs audio. You could lift the audio straight off TR-47's and use it (so long as you've synced it correctly). Perhapps Zion or MeBeJedi would help you out with the crawls and alien scenes. You'd also want to compare the raw capture to make sure that your PAL version isn't from an NTSC-to-PAL. Also, you could use special edition LaserDiscs:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6329859741

Like use the german as the underlaying source and then any identical feame that's in the Special Edition can be used to replace the german ones. Still, it's a very good idea since NTSC sucks. By the way I wouldn't use the dual-audio tracks or make it anamorphic.
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I like the dual-audio track idea; it gives people a lot more options than a typical bootleg does.

a trolling bantha

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I'm in Australia & we use PAL too.

Good Luck!

E Chu Ta!

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grisan - Hi & Welcome

All the best with your PAL dvdrs


NTSC (USA) dvdr will work on PAL only dvd players - at least it does on my, and around 12 of my mates' players. Offcial shop bought R1 dvd will NOT work but the dvdr will.
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I find that answer vague and unconvincing.
 
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Hi,

thanks for all the answers and suggestions.

@oojason
My standalone (and regionfree) DVD Player and tv are NTSC compatible. I am doing this because IMHO PAL is the superior format, not because I can't watch NTSC discs.
The only disadvantage of PAL is the speedup from 24 to 25 fps, but to me this isn't really noticable while watching a movie.

@skywalka
Good for you (and Australia). ;-)

@Laserschwert
I will try some of the filters you suggested and post the results on my site. I will contact you when I am finished with DVDs.

@DanielB
The VHS audio track was the easiest to get and use for my first draft DVD. I am still trying to get english OT PAL THX LDs, but up till now I never saw them on Ebay.
Using the audio track from TR47 DVDs is a good idea and I will try this. I know Besweet has an option to change audio to match a certain framerate. I hope this works well and the quality is good. Another possibility is to cut the new scenes out of an SE audio track to match the OT version. This way I could make real 5.1 tracks, although this might be a lot of work (and I have never done this before). But I probably stick with Prologic encoded 2.0 tracks anyway.
Another good idea is to use footage from Special Edition LDs. I also have these british PAL SE LDs, so indeed I could use some scenes from these discs. Unfortunately this is no option for the Greedo scene.
Dual audio is something I will definitly do, because these DVDs are primarily intended for myself and some (german) friends.
In my opinion using a LPCM stream is actually much worse than using 2 ac3 audio tracks.
Anamorphic is no must, but I still think it gives better quality on 16:9 tvs and no noticable quality loss on 4:3 tvs.


I spend quite some time creating the DVD menus (especially the root menu), so please tell me what think abou these.

Greetings,
Grisan

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Originally posted by: grisan
I am still trying to get english OT PAL THX LDs, but up till now I never saw them on Ebay.


Does such a thing exists? According to The Laserdisc Database, the only OT laserdiscs in UK were Pan&Scan. You will have to use the Special Edition LDs for the english text crawl and end credits.

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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That site also doesn't list a German version of ANH anywhere. Seems as if it is somewhat incomplete if you ask me.

a trolling bantha

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Hi,

LDDB really ist quite incomplete. A while ago I registered there to add some info about my Laserdisc, but never did.
I know that english SW THX LDs are not listed there, and I always wondered if this can really be true. Laserdisc never was popular in Europe, but most PAL LDs were released in the UK afaik.
I know for sure that the 1995 THX LDs of SW OT were released in Germany and France (and Spain?) so I believed a UK version must exist, too. It seems I was wrong, because I never saw it at Ebay or read anywhere about it.

BTW:
There are 3 german Star Wars LD sets:
1993 Letterbox, CLV, non-THX (bad picture quality)
1995 Letterbox, CAV, THX
1997 Letterbox, CLV, THX
and I also have a single german Star Wars ANH LD from 1982!

I decided to use footage from my british PAL SE LDs for the openings and subtitled sequences, as suggested by some people. I just checked and captured these scenes. Quality is much better than the NTSC conversion, and the Greedo scene is also better because the subtitles are in the black letterbox bars and not in the picture. Even the Greedo shoots first issue is no problem because in the OT version you never actually see Han shoot (like in the SE), so I can simply cut this out.

I also converted the PCM audio from TR47 DVD to PAL with Besweet. It should be no problem to sync it to my videotrack.

Greetings
Grisan
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Oh, you can use the greedo scene from the SE for the parts with the subtitles. Just cut back to the original when they shoot. I wouldn't try and splice the audio at all, the PCM track is great as it is. You could always make two versions, one with both audios, one with just english. Anyhow, good luck. Oh, I also have a suggestion for you and all other bootleggers (Zion, MeBeJedi, this means YOU) - how about creating two seperate subtitle tracks, the default one will display the subtitles (for greedo/jabba) just below the picture, and the second one will display it on the picture.
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"Oh, I also have a suggestion for you and all other bootleggers (Zion, MeBeJedi, this means YOU)"

Imagine that...

"- how about creating two seperate subtitle tracks, the default one will display the subtitles (for greedo/jabba) just below the picture, and the second one will display it on the picture."

Why bother? SW is 2.35:1. There are still black bars in a 16x9 conversion to place the subtitles in. Mine are just below the picture, so different ratios don't affect it.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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I was thinking for people with projection units, or those who simply prefer it on the picture. I don't know about you, but I would kind of prefer it if they were on the picture because then at least your eyes aren't taken so far away to read them.

Now if you'll excuse me, I still haven't got over the horror of facing 4 more years of STANHOPE. For those of you interested, you can see the results of the stupidity right here in my very own city here. The Greens and the ALP - what could possibly be worse? I don't know where you live skywalka, but this is obviously all your fault (welcome to the forums).
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Daniel B, I'm in Parra.

You Rebel scum.

Thanx

E Chu Ta!

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"I was thinking for people with projection units, or those who simply prefer it on the picture."

How many of them do you think will set their curtains for a ratio other than (or smaller than) 16x9? Hell, most of them probably have the curtains set at 4x3 just to save some hastle.

And it doesn't make much sense to preserve the video, just to slap subtitles on it - not to mention the fact that it can make them harder to read.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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Hi,

I updated my site with some screenshots and sample clips. These show the difference between my original encode and new encodes, with color correction and noise reduction filters applied.
In addition there are letterboxed 4:3 and anamorphic clips. In other threads there was a lot of discussion about the pros and cons of letterboxed and anamorphic encoding.
Now you can decide yourself if anamorphic encoding degrades picture quality or not.
Feel free to post your opinion.

Greetings
Grisan

btw:
if possible subtitles should aways be below the picture.
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Your transfer looks good but your aspect ratios are all wrong.
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Might I say three words pertaining to this shot?

http://www.scifi.pages.at/swpaldvd/ana_color_noise_sharped.jpg

LOSS OF DETAIL

-or-

WAY TOO DARK

Either way they amount to the same thing.

Oh, and too much blue shift...

a trolling bantha

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You're off to a great start Grisan. Like a few have pointed out though, there are some things you can do to improve your transfers.

As far as color correction goes, I can tell you from having stared at my screen for hours at a time tweaking things that it's very important to keep as much detail as possible. Your final screeshots look a bit too dark, and you can tell in that shot that Ash posted that the faces of the toops are pretty much gone. You might try raising the gama level and also lowering your saturation a couple of notches.

Great work so far though.

My Projects:
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