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Star Wars Limited Edition Screen Captures. — Page 2

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Originally posted by: Zion
Originally posted by: Moth3r
I wouldn't trust the output from PowerDVD to be accurate - I seem to recall in the past that it brightened the image. I'd prefer to get grabs from either DGIndex or VirtualDubMod.

Very true. I compared caps I made with PowerDVD to caps I made from VirtualDubMod and there is a clear difference. PowerDVD seems to want to rescale and recolor the image before it spits it out. What I always do when making caps is load the VOB file from the DVD into VirtualDubMod, select "copy source frame to clipboard", and then paste into Photoshop and save to the desired format - either 100% quality JPEG or PNG.


So Zion, is the above comparison by Red5 not accurate?

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Well I've just finished ANH and I have to say that I am impressed with the picture too. Its not perfect - I wasnt expecting it to be given the source and lack of treatment. But it is far better than I had believed it was going to be. Better than the LD transfers have seen, and more importantly, I now feel I never have to watch the SE mixes again. And - crucially - it hasnt been fiddled with. Obviously I'm not as 'hardcore' as some folk here (who probably dont watch the SE's on principle) - but I'm relieved.

Oh, and the sound - the sound is sooooooo much better than the woeful 2004 DVD mix

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The image at top is Boris Capture and the image on the bottom is from the X0 website....
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5702/vadercomparecy5.jpg
Is this Vader from "ROTJ" or "Coneheads"? Anybody else see the conehead? Look closely at where
both heads are orientated in the frame...They look to be occupying the same space in the frame, it's just
the GOUT Vader seems to be stretched out a bit.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Originally posted by: vbangle
The image at top is Boris Capture and the image on the bottom is from the X0 website....
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5702/vadercomparecy5.jpg
Is this Vader from "ROTJ" or "Coneheads"? Anybody else see the conehead? Look closely at where
both heads are orientated in the frame...They look to be occupying the same space in the frame, it's just
the GOUT Vader seems to be stretched out a bit.


To be fair, this is not the exact same frame. Look at the shape of Vader's left shoulder.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Of course, just by looking at his eyes you can tell that.... But measure from the forehead wound to his eyebrow...there is a clear difference there.
What I'm looking at is the proportions of his head...it just doesn't look right, to me it looks stretched out...
It may be nothing but I don't recall Vader's head
being that mis-shapened, even with him moving around....

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
Ouch. Is that Moth3r's on the bottom?


No, it's from the 1995 Coffret Triloge LDs that is undubbed (VO) and has french subs. I think Moth3r used the french dubbed (VF) version, but the video is more or less the same as the LDs came from the same Telecine and mastertape.

AFAIK there were four PAL laserdisc releases, two French, one German and one Spanish and several PAL VHS released in 1995 that all came from the same PAL mastertape.

And I am afraid the OUT 'PAL' DVD did not come from the PAL master.

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Originally posted by: vbangle
Of course, just by looking at his eyes you can tell that.... But measure from the forehead wound to his eyebrow...there is a clear difference there.
What I'm looking at is the proportions of his head...it just doesn't look right, to me it looks stretched out...
It may be nothing but I don't recall Vader's head
being that mis-shapened, even with him moving around....


There's nothing wrong, it just hasn't been resized.

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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Originally posted by: vbangle
Of course, just by looking at his eyes you can tell that.... But measure from the forehead wound to his eyebrow...there is a clear difference there.
What I'm looking at is the proportions of his head...it just doesn't look right, to me it looks stretched out...
It may be nothing but I don't recall Vader's head
being that mis-shapened, even with him moving around....


Keep in mind that PAL has more vertical resolution, which would make the frame appear stretched on your computer.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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The amazing thing about that comparison is the difference in sharpness. The X0 version sems considerably more detailed - just as the PAL THX LD does in Red5's post. Both of which would make more sense if indeed the PAL was upscaled. We really need some certifiably comparable captures of both PAL and NTSC GOUT discs to judge this properly.
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Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
Originally posted by: Vigo
Either your settings are incorrect, or it is indeed true that the PAL DVD´s are upscaled NTSC. On some shots, it is clearly evident.


This is the most important issue with these discs, IMHO. If the PAL discs are upscaled from the NTSC master, all hope is lost.

Vigo, can you (or anyone else) give us a little visual demonstration of what you mean?


Look here:

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8130/sw001td1.png

Look at the "S". You can clearly see edges in the rounds due to scaling.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/415/sw005gf9.png

Look at the bottom light grey curve of Vaders right eye. Again, you see edges due to upscaling.
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Those screencaps look pretty good, but I still don't see any reason to upgrade from my bootlegs at this point. George hasn't release info. on the 30th anniversary editions yet because he's going to include the OOT in ANAMORPHIC and REMASTERED, I haave no doubt. He's doing this release, making us all think this will be the last time, we buy it, he releases it again, we go "Fuck you George," and give him more money.

Plus, he can't call the 30th anniversary set the 30th anniversary set if it doesn't have the film that was made 30 years ago, right?
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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And if he does release the OT in the box-set, but it's not OUT (meaning 1977 crawl), then I would rather watch the crappier-looking original over the pristine altered.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but there's barely 2 or 3 special edition changes that bug me as much as the change to the frelling title of the movie, and the timing of the music to the original crawl.
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I'd be interested to see region 1/2 comparison shots to see if the framing differs between the regions like it was on the ntsc/pal LD's.
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Originally posted by: vbangle
The image at top is Boris Capture and the image on the bottom is from the X0 website....
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5702/vadercomparecy5.jpg
Is this Vader from "ROTJ" or "Coneheads"? Anybody else see the conehead? Look closely at where
both heads are orientated in the frame...They look to be occupying the same space in the frame, it's just
the GOUT Vader seems to be stretched out a bit.


the X0 cap looks so much better!
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X0 contrast seems a little bit overblown compared to the GOUT.
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Vigo thanks for being a good sport & responding as you did.

Looks like us PAL consumers did indeed suffer an NTSC upscale nightmare... will be looking into getting hold of X0 Project transfers to compare.

Good to see how well the OUT Trilogy (as advertised) is selling though, overall. George? HELLO? Listening?

"Oh, they just wanted to own the movies individually, was nothing to do with the OUT being better...................."
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If the PAL is an NTSC upscale, then I'm betting Moth3r will have the edge.
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Originally posted by: vbangle
The image at top is Boris Capture and the image on the bottom is from the X0 website....
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5702/vadercomparecy5.jpg
Is this Vader from "ROTJ" or "Coneheads"? Anybody else see the conehead? Look closely at where
both heads are orientated in the frame...They look to be occupying the same space in the frame, it's just
the GOUT Vader seems to be stretched out a bit. My capture hasn't been resized, it's in PAL resolution - so on a computer monitor it will look "stretched"... as I see Zion caught onto "Keep in mind that PAL has more vertical resolution, which would make the frame appear stretched on your computer."
Originally posted by: Darth Richard
the X0 cap looks so much better!
Personally, to me the X0 looks more processed and the brightness seems a little too much. Also, some of the very fine detail has been lost in the X0 version. I wouldn't be prepared to say either is definitively a "better picture" there, but keep in mind that the X0 has not yet been compressed for DVD (which will always lead to smoothing), and that you really can't tell from a screen capture, you have to see it in motion to fully appreciate any difference in quality.Originally posted by: Vigo
Either your settings are incorrect, or it is indeed true that the PAL DVD´s are upscaled NTSC. On some shots, it is clearly evident.
An NTSC up-conversion will still look better then NTSC. Has it been scaled? I don't know for certain. You cannot tell just from looking at my screencaps and saying "hey there's a bit of aliasing here". The detail is very good though, and while there are some softer-focus scenes... (especially the out-door ones), the picture really isn't "too soft".

I find the picture on my non-anamorphic NTSC Criterion Robocop disc to look better then the Anamorphic PAL MGM version. The criterion disc was made from the old master used for their laserdisc release... and it really does look great. Maybe not 10/10... but certainly a 7/10. The image is honestly so much more pleasing then the MGM. Here are some screen caps:

Robocop:
Scene 1: Criterion MGM
Scene 2: Criterion MGM
Scene 3: Criterion MGM

There is a difference in detail… between the two star wars discs… but it's not huge.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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what do you mean the X0 has lost fine detail, it has MORE detail.
But w/e i won't agree with someone.
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I will happily be buying the discs tomorrow (probably the Best Buy tin). I've owned the SE dvd's since they were first released, but honestly haven't watched them. I will watch the OOT discs soon though (probably over the weekend) just to see the quality. Even though I'll finally own an original set of them, I still look foward to the XO discs to see how their hard work turns out. How are they coming along Zion? Was the announcement of these dvd's finally getting released a "downer" for you guys or are you much more determined to release a nicer product to see if you can top these sub-standard releases?
You know..... I've made several versions of these from my laserdiscs over the years. A couple of months before Fox announced this release, I went out and bought a new Pioneer CLD-97 LD player and a new SEALED Definitive Set so that I could re-do these in a much nicer set than I had done previously. Even though I was happy when they announced the OOT releases, a part of me was saddened that I had just spent money on the new player and LD's. I now own 4 full laserdisc sets (including 2 copies of the Definitive set) and a new laserdisc player. Oh well....
--RickWJ324
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Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: vbangle
The image at top is Boris Capture and the image on the bottom is from the X0 website....
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5702/vadercomparecy5.jpg
Is this Vader from "ROTJ" or "Coneheads"? Anybody else see the conehead? Look closely at where
both heads are orientated in the frame...They look to be occupying the same space in the frame, it's just
the GOUT Vader seems to be stretched out a bit.
My capture hasn't been resized, it's in PAL resolution - so on a computer monitor it will look "stretched"... as I see Zion caught onto "Keep in mind that PAL has more vertical resolution, which would make the frame appear stretched on your computer."

NSS....You're about a dollar short and a page late Boris.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Sure is grainy. Not necessarily a bad thing mind you.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan