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Star Wars Infinities and What it could mean to the Prequels

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A couple weeks ago, LucasArts announced at Comic-Con that they were releasing addtional content for The Force Unleashed.  Story wise, the content takes place after the uncanonical "Dark" ending to the game where the player has killed Darth Vader and become the Emperor's new right hand man.  Because this story doesn't fit into the canon, they have branded it under the "Star Wars Infinities" label.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Infinities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_comic_books#Infinities_Era_.28Not_within_timeline.29

Infinities was first coined, as far as I understand, in Star Wars Inifinities: A New Hope but has continued to be used in other comics and now a video game.

This has me thinking: Why not the Star Wars Prequels Infinites?

We should all write Del Ray(or Tor or LucasBooks or who ever has the contract or makes the decisions these days...) and have them hire Tim Zahn or somebody to write a Star Wars Infinities  Prequel Series.  Give him the latitude to write it any way he wants.

I would assemble a small committee for him consisting of Lawrence Kasdan, Tom Veitch, and me (!) to help him.  Kasdan for what I hope is obvious reasons, Tom Veitch because he was one of the original EU thinkers and referenced some idea of the Clone Wars a lot in his 1st Dark Empire series (try to  forget DE2 and Empire's End) and me so that at least I can be happy with the result.

Heck, if they're good enough, and we wait for ol' George Lucas to pass on to the big star destroyer in the sky... they could even make them into movies...

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Oh man, Star Wars prequel infinities would rule.  I remember I picked up the first issue of ESB's and loved it.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Sounds great!

Though the idea of "infinities" was to follow strange and interesting deviations from the canonical plot (i.e. Vader becomes a good guy after ROTJ, recolors his armor white, helps the rebels, and spends quality time with his two loving children). This kind of thing has long been a tradition with comic books (such as Marvel's "What If" series), and I feel it is certainly a welcome and amusing part of the mass of SW EU out there. But I am not so sure a serious remake of the PT would really fit in with the spirit of the idea behind "infinities". Would be kind of like Marvel calling the fairly recent Incredible Hulk remake, "The Incredible Hulk: What If... The Incredible Hulk Film Had Actually Been Watchable?"

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Well, you'd have to do it on the sly.

You know, like with the Hulk movie title.

 

:)

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Many Marvel Star Wars fans wanted "What If?" stories, but Marvel was limited in what they could do with the license in those days.

I think the other most requested idea was crossovers with the Marvel universe, which of course has been done with Star Trek. 

Vader Vs. Doom would have rocked though! ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Just sell all the future DVD and blu-ray editions of the actual prequels under the "Infinities" label",  

hire Zahn to make new prequels script,

and reshoot the movies under the "official canon" label!

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Now that's an idea!

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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 (Edited)

Possible ideas of Star Wars Prequel infinities:

TPM - What if Anakin hadn't destroyed the Trade Federation control ship?  And what if Queen Amidala did not capture the Viceroy?

ATOC - What if Padme had been killed on the landing plat form?  or what if she had gotten stung by those poisonous Kouhuns?  Would she had died?  And would Anakin want to avenge her death and get an early start down the path to the dark side?

ROTS - What if the Jedi had slain Palpatine before he could seduce Anakin?  And what if General Grievous had defeated Obi-Wan on Utapau?

I would have also asked for ROTS "what if Anakin had defeated Obi-Wan on Mustafar?" but thanks to the bonus level of the Episode III game, we already have an idea.

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TPM's definitely mirrors the Infinity for ANH.  And all of those sound interesting.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Those would be good for a Dark Horse comics series of Infinities based on the Prequels.  (and, frankly, what they'll do if anything...)  But my suggestion was to use Infinities to backdoor complete rewrites.  Maybe reuse character names and likenesses if they have to.  And give it to authors that were working in Star Wars prior to the Prequels and had some private concept of what the Clone Wars were and how the Fall of the Jedi/Republic went down, etc. etc...

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Time
 (Edited)

What if Qui-Gon had left Anakin on Tatooine, or had been caught cheating with the dice?

What if Mace Windu had helped Anakin liberate the slaves and his mother?

What if the Trade Federation had turned down Darth Sidious?

What if Jengo Fett had stuck to Bounty Hunting instead of taking up cell donation for cloners?

What if Dooku stayed with the Jedi order?

What if Anakin had saved his mother from the Tusken Raiders?

What if the Jedi got the plans to the Death Star?

What if Jar-Jar was a really great character that everyone loved?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Wow, I can't help but feel like this thread has been hijacked, yet the hijackers are doing a great job of staying on topic... only in a different manner than the OP intended.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX, get my thread back on topic.

You are my only hope.

Stay on target!

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time
 (Edited)
xhonzi said:

But my suggestion was to use Infinities to backdoor complete rewrites.  Maybe reuse character names and likenesses if they have to.  And give it to authors that were working in Star Wars prior to the Prequels and had some private concept of what the Clone Wars were and how the Fall of the Jedi/Republic went down, etc. etc...

 

 I love this idea! 

No way in H-E-Double-Hell is it going to happen.  And honestly, unless one of these Infinities ideas gets made into a movie, I don't think I'd be interested.

And on the flip side, what happens if Lucas gives the green light, and then some EU writer or video game programmer exposes the prequels as the joke that they are?  I don't see Lucas being secure enough to show him up as the beloved, flannel-wearing story-teller.

 

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Sluggo said:

No way in H-E-Double-Hell

That would be, "He hell hell".

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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The Infinities range (in theory) hinge on one minor change rippling out (though often there are lots of other changes which have nothing to do with the one event).

So I think most of the suggestions are fine as they provide suggestions for the trigger event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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 (Edited)

Yes, 'wings. But the point is... ah nevermind. It'll never happen. I was just suggesting that they sort of abuse the Infinites brand. Use the Marvel 'What if?' model for the comics. Just, write a series of novels that are actual complete replacements.

 

But as long as we're discussing the questions:

What if Anakin's fall to Dark Side was convincing?

What if the Prequel storyline was actually engaging?

What if you felt romance between Luke & Leia's parents?

What if you could love Star Wars again?

What if you could kick the 1999-2005 prequels to the curb?

What if it was all just a bad dream?

What if Lucas was only kidding?

What if the Prequels weren't aimed at 5 year olds?

What if there were no midichlorians?

What if there was no Jar-Jar?

 

WHAT IF?????

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I hated Empire Infinities comic they showed Boba Fett's face.  He looked like that bad actor from the prequels who played jango, and in my mind boba fett is jaster mareel journeyman protector, not some bad clone wannabe.

Prequel Infinities would be as bad as if they did a prequel radio drama series.  Can you imagine them trying to cast a whiny/bitchy sound alike for hayden who would deliver those great acting wooden performances without being seen,lol.

The infinities comics which includes star wars tales and infinities the original trilogy and the force unleashed sith edition is mainly for fan wish fulfillment.  Or Star wars visions.

You can have a Cyborg Darth Maul fight Obi Wan on tattooine or Darth Vader versus Darth Mauls clone.

 

There is some stuff that is eu continuity which really should not be and should fall under infinities like the marvel comics.  Jaxxon the bunny,lol.  But the prequel as they are should also be an infinities because they don't fit the original trilogy.

 

What if the prequel were as people original thought?  Obi wan OB1 was a clone of the original kenobi, and the clone wars were cloned jedi fighting sith and mandalorians.

What if their was a love triangle between Anakin, and his wife, and Kenobi.  And Luke and Leias parentage was uncertain Obi wan could be their father,lol.

 

C'boath was going to original be a clone of obi wan in the zahn trilogy but lucasfilm said the prequel era was off limits.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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 (Edited)
What if Anakin's fall to Dark Side was convincing?

What if the Prequel storyline was actually engaging?

What if you felt romance between Luke & Leia's parents?

What if you could love Star Wars again?

What if you could kick the 1999-2005 prequels to the curb?

What if it was all just a bad dream?

What if Lucas was only kidding?

What if the Prequels weren't aimed at 5 year olds?

What if there were no midichlorians?

What if there was no Jar-Jar?

 

WHAT IF?????

 

Wow, those are some very fascinating what ifs Xhonzi. For the first time in this thread, those are some alternate realities I'd be very interested in following. Too bad the percentage chance of us ever getting to enjoy such fascinating what ifs is about 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% or considerably less.

 

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I expected to find this thread full of "You like Zahn and Veitch?  They're terrible and their books suck!" kind of comments.

C3PX:

Since you seem to be on the same wavelength here, who do you trust with this noble effort?

(Hint: I still get to be on the committee)

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time
xhonzi said:

A couple weeks ago, LucasArts announced at Comic-Con that they were releasing addtional content for The Force Unleashed.  Story wise, the content takes place after the uncanonical "Dark" ending to the game where the player has killed Darth Vader and become the Emperor's new right hand man.  Because this story doesn't fit into the canon, they have branded it under the "Star Wars Infinities" label.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Infinities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_comic_books#Infinities_Era_.28Not_within_timeline.29

Infinities was first coined, as far as I understand, in Star Wars Inifinities: A New Hope but has continued to be used in other comics and now a video game.

This has me thinking: Why not the Star Wars Prequels Infinites?

We should all write Del Ray(or Tor or LucasBooks or who ever has the contract or makes the decisions these days...) and have them hire Tim Zahn or somebody to write a Star Wars Infinities  Prequel Series.  Give him the latitude to write it any way he wants.

I would assemble a small committee for him consisting of Lawrence Kasdan, Tom Veitch, and me (!) to help him.  Kasdan for what I hope is obvious reasons, Tom Veitch because he was one of the original EU thinkers and referenced some idea of the Clone Wars a lot in his 1st Dark Empire series (try to  forget DE2 and Empire's End) and me so that at least I can be happy with the result.

Heck, if they're good enough, and we wait for ol' George Lucas to pass on to the big star destroyer in the sky... they could even make them into movies...

 

The prequels already ARE infinities. There's your prequels infinities right there. I mean, did it strike you as plausible that that wimp Annie could become Darth Vader? It was just an experimental infinities story, not the real backstory of Star Wars.

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Great!  Now bring on the real prequels!

 

(that's all I'm saying)

 

((that's all))

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

We don't need prequels. The original trilogy works quite well by itself. Nobody ever needed more Star Wars beyond that. If only we'd all realized that way back. It's been a hard-learned lesson. Six-movie saga, nine movie saga, twelve movie cycle... all a load of bull. The trilogy is a self-contained story that works by itself. The rest is just backstory that never needed films. Sure it would be nice to see how Anakin REALLY turned into Vader, but it's not necessary. From the OOT we can gather that he was a good guy who was corrupted by darkness probably by Palpatine (who else?) maybe through anger and hate and turned probably sometime between the twins' conception and birth and that sometime after he went evil he got all fucked up and became "more machine than man", complete with bionics and a breathing mask. He was probably associated with the emperor around the time the twins were born and at some point after he went dark he worked for the empire hunting down the jedi and rose to an important position in the empire. Before he went evil, he'd been a clone wars vet, a powerful jedi knight and a good friend to Kenobi, who was a general in the clone wars and served Leia's adopted father in them. Jedi knights fought in the clone wars. Yoda trained Kenobi as a jedi and Kenobi took it upon himself to train Anakin and fucked up. The republic was replaced with the empire after it had stood for at least 25 thousand years, with the jedi as its guardians for 25 thousand years, and in the end the jedi were hunted down and killed off for the empire, so by the time of ROTJ there's no jedi around except Luke. Owen Lars wasn't keen on Anakin fighting in the clone wars. The republic had a senate that was probably pretty important in its government and the senate continued when the republic became the empire. The empire may have come in roughly around the time the twins were born. Leia and Luke's mother survived until Leia was small and then died and was obviously a nice person but sad. Leia was adopted by the Organas on Alderaan, who were presumably Alderaanian royalty. The twins had been hidden when born so the emperor wouldn't get them and Vader may not have known about them, and he certainly didn't know about Leia. Seeing as the coming of the empire was the dark times, we can assume the republic was the ok times and was basically good. Anakin was a great pilot when Kenobi met him and we'd be within reason to assume he was an adult or near-adult at the time. A lot of things are either said outright in the OT or implied or suggested and more we can guess, leaving us with a good picture of the backstory (not necessarily the exact backstory Lucas had, but at least close to it, and definitely a backstory that is suggested by the films and which works for it). So from the original trilogy we can extrapolate all the backstory we need for the OT. It would certainly have been nice to have a more detailed picture and answers to some questions, but the trilogy works without that. Prequel trilogy unnecessary.

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The OT backstory (AKA "prequels") is kind of like you lie to your wife or to your parents.  The idea and the logic might seem pretty good on the surface, but if you dig deeper or take a good hard look at it, the inconsistencies will shine through and theres no way to the lie going.  I've done my fair share or rethinking the prequels and there are definitely problems with the source material (that we've gone into ad nauseum in these forums).

Maybe you're right, VINH.  Maybe we just don't want prequels because they can't be good no matter who writes them.

 

:(

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!