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Star Wars Fans Are Cool Regardless Of Age... — Page 2

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The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Saying that you lost the oil will not stop the wheel from squeaking.

Give the wheel butter, and it will not stop squeaking.

Give the wheel a low-grade, old, partially-used oil, and it will squeak a little less loudly. But it will still squeak.

Once the wheel gets the OIL, it will stop squeaking.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Originally posted by: CO
Cassidy, SW fandom has always been divided, there just wasn't any internet back in '83. If there were an internet back in '83, ROTJ would have gotten ripped to shreds. Ewoks? Darth Vaders a pussy? Luke/Leia are siblings? Kenobi POV?

Very true. There were plenty of discussions going on, they just weren’t public. You only really understood how people felt when you went to movie conventions or read an occasional article in a magazine. I bailed after ROTJ. I had started to loose faith with ESB, but when I saw ROTJ, I left the theater disgusted. Everything that came after that was of no concern to me. I had my movie\story picked out. It was Star Wars – no sequels, no franchise, no fluid saga.



I know so many people who are just SW'77 fans and that is it, but other then Anchorhead, I have yet to meet one on the internet, cause they just love the first film and don't really care about anything that happened after 1977.
I’m that way indeed, but this site has still been a great place for me. Because of this site, I’ve decided to read SOTME (written in 1977 and published in early 1978, while the movie was still in the theaters). I recently learned about the old NPR radio shows (also the 1977 story) and am now anxiously awaiting their arrival. I’ve also learned a lot about various software programs for ripping and editing film audio. That was a very tough and lengthy process before I joined this site.

All those great things – things that are very important to me - came about because of this site.

Trust me Cassidy, if there were an internet back in 1980, there would be a large section of fans saying……Lucas is ruining SW!"

Excellent point. Some of us definitely felt that way. We just had no way to communicate that en mass. We could either continue to follow the movies, or not. That was the only choice we had.

Lucas has been changing around the story of SW since 1978 as Zombie has shown, it is up to all of us to choose when we feel he ruined it, and just watch the movies we love.

That’s exactly what I was talking about the other day when I said it’s up to each individual to decide what moves them and pick that film\story\etc to embrace and watch.

We live a wonderful time – each of us can easily have whatever film we want. That wasn’t always the case. In fact, that’s how I found this place. I had just acquired a laserdisc of Star Wars and wanted to see if there was some way to transfer it to DVD. I looked around the internet and found this site. Imagine my relief and excitement when I discovered that there were actually other fans of the original versions of the films. I had no idea. I knew as soon as I looked around here that I would forever be able to watch Star Wars without fear of breaking a VHS tape or trying to find a Laserdisc player.

I could have and watch the one film I wanted.

The anger is lost on me because I don't have to accept Lucas' lying. I was there in 1977, I know the truth, and I can watch the truth whenever I feel like it.


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Originally posted by: TheCassidy
There is an entire generation of spoon-fed men and women under the age of 25 or 30 that is a cynical, negative, whining.....


You're right on the money. Our society is angry, spoiled, mean, and opinionated these days, but a thorough and proper discussion of how that's come to be, it's repercussions - current and future - is beyond the scope of this board.

Look at our popular culture these days. All of it is voyeuristic gang mentality. TV shows teach people how to gang up on their fellow citizens and insult them, defeat them, vote them off, eliminate them, and humiliate them. Then they laud the ones who do so. Meanness and anger are rewarded, civility and compassion are seen as weaknesses. people don't tune into to American Idol because they have an interest in the next recording contract - they want to see people make fools of themselves, or to see Simon insult someone until they leave the stage in tears - and it's all offered as entertainment.

Everything is about arrogance, entitlement, and attitude these days. The more - the better.

Yet when we turn on the nightly news and see our school children massacre each other - the nation stares in shock and disbelief, wondering what went wrong.

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Cassidy, I don't know what your problem is, but all you've been doing the past couple of days is proving what a big fucking dick you are. It's getting old, and you're not funny. Leave the boards if they bother you so much, or remind you of TFn so much.
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I will say something about growing up in the late 70's/early 80's, movies were much more upbeat and there were always characters to root for to in the fantasy/scifi/action genre. Think of movies like Star Wars, Superman, Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T., and Back to the Future, all had the ultimate 'good guy' characters to root for, and the stories were still written for adults which children could enjoy, but they didn't send out this political message or blur the lines between good and evil, those movies were black and white, and the lines were drawn from the first minute of the film. With films like The Matrix, and the PT, and other movies today from that genre, I think times have changed, and it aint about nostalgia for me, but I am so glad I grew up during the OT days, cause those movies are better.
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Originally posted by: bkev
Well, excuse me for being only 13!
I am of the opinion that many SE changes are good, other than the screw-ups on the DVD, Jabba, and Jedi Rocks


I'm 14, and I hate every change made. Interesting...well, not really. Most kids like the changes. I'm just wierd.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

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I'm not going to excuse any of the unwarranted negativity that I have certainly expressed towards George Lucas on this forum in the past. He may have disappointed many of us, sure, but that was no valid reason for me to have insulted the man. However I will still say this:

1. I wasn't the one who went around promoting the idea that George Lucas was some kind of storytelling genius. George Lucas is the one that made that dumb mistake. If he now experiences a nasty fall in the eyes of particular Star Wars fans, then that's his own damn fault. He lifted himself up to be something he wasn’t.

2. I'm not the one who ever said that George Lucas couldn't have his personal “vision” for Star Wars. In actuality, he's the one who's actively trying to erase the original vision that I came to love at an earlier point in time. It is George Lucas who is actively trying to ignore the amazing historical and artistic achievement tied to the original Star Wars movies, and it is George Lucas who arrogantly works to prevent that original enjoyment of Star Wars. As far as I'm concerned, as a fan (fanatic) of the way things were, I'm the one who's on the defensive.

3. I didn’t force George Lucas to take some of the most truly successful pieces of entertainment around and mutate them via a confusing mess of useless alterations and worthless contexts. George is the one who ultimately made that blunder. If Star Wars fans and the general, movie-going public want to then discuss how bad the series has become as a result, then that's perfectly acceptable in my mind. If people value art, they should criticize that which muddles or destroys its excellence.


I make no apologies about trying to have high standards when I experience a particular art form. At the same time I also make no apologies about having a love for Star Wars. At that point it should be obvious that I would have a degree of trouble getting those two values to mix. For instance, if I happen to love some particular nuance within the original Star Wars—because I believe it is aesthetically valuable—then it shouldn't be difficult to understand why I would go on to express criticism for anything that threatens it. I see nothing wrong with a desire to advocate my position to others. Maybe I’ll then say something controversial or “negative” from time to time as a result, but I think that should be expected. Sometimes negativity can be totally valid.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I quite agree.All artistic endeavour is,and should,by it's nature be open to critique and interpretation.I think the point here though is that a lot of fans seem to take a lot of the things very,very personally and react as such.I dont think there is really any need for that kind of reaction.A reasoned critique of the films and their impact and so forth will create useful dialogues and will serve us all well as fans.It is when it just gets down to petty bitching that it gets old fast.I am very aware of the failings of some of the films,all of the films as a matter of fact,but I love them anyway.George Lucas doesn't owe me anything.I have paid enough money down the years that I am pretty sure I dont owe george anything either!Lucas has given me so much in my life with these films that he will always,regardless of some of his flaws and perhaps arrogance,be one of my true heroes.Maybe that makes me a schmuck.If it does then so be it.I understand completely some of the negative reactions and comments about the films but I will continue,for myself,to find the good in all of them as that is what makes me happy and enables me to continue to enjoy and love these films and I sincerely hope I can pass that onto my sons.
Long story short-Star Wars pretty much kicks the ass out of everything else.

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I agree with Tiptup in this point. What makes us a bunch of cynical, whining little sheep who believe the popular opinion that Lucas screwed us over never formulating own opinion and thus just regurgitate the same thing repeatedly.

I don't think Lucas screwed me over. He is what he is, not what anybody ever thought him to be. This is in the open now, it will never change. My only complaint is the lag time in the DVD release, then the realization that the DVD release he did make was only a reaction to the bootlegs floating around so he essentially commercially released his own bootleg. That is annoying. But my complaint with the guy ends there. Everything else is fair enough. He can change the films all he wants, and he can make as many new films as he wants. He can't destroy the old ones, as long as they are available in a valid format I am as happy as can be. My opinions are my own, I didn't get the internet till about 1999, and even then I didn't spend a lot of time on it on message boards or even going to websites, just email really. Nobody told me to dislike the SE, I did that on my own. Nobody told me to dislike Episode I, I did that on my own. Having only a small number of friends who are SW fans in the real world, and some of them being quite fond of the SE and PT, I think it is quite impossible for me to be listening to the popular opinion that Lucas screwed me over and regurgitating it, since I never knew that was popular opinion at the time my own opinions were formulated.

I very much agree with anchorhead about the current state of TV and entertainment, but I don't see it relevent to people complaining about George Lucas. I have never even visited another SW board beyond OT.com, I would assume this being called OT.com that it is a bit of a haven for pre-SE fans, and that in being such that it contains a good deal more of the "screw the SE and PT" type conversation than most the others on the net. I agree it gets old the same people saying the same thing all the time. But if every one just accepted it as it was and forced themselves to like it because it had the label "Star Wars Episode x" stampt on it then we would have never had any of the decent fan edits we have now. I don't think criticising art is so over the top, unreasonable cynicism or negative. I also enjoy sitting and talking with my few friends who are as geeky as me about what changes could have been made to the PT to make it better. I find that as fun as some people find sitting around and talking about the last sports game they watched and how terrible is was so and so fouled up the game and that if he hadn't our team would've won.

I have no hate for Lucas, he did make the movies I have been so fond of over the years. He use to be one of my heros, I used to think he was one of the greatest story tellers alive. Now I know better, but I have no reason to hate him. I may wish he was how I precieved him to be rather than how he is.

And finally, I do not think there are so many who actually let SW rule their lives. Just because it was a big part of my childhood, doesn't mean it does that much for me today or that it rules my life. I don't wear Yoda underoos to bed, and I had no clue Clonetrooper-Os existed.

It should not bother you so much, this is the general SW discussion, so it is sure to come up. You created a thread about disregarding fans under 30, so it was sure to come up. I am willing to bet none of us leave this forum and go to our wives, bosses, coworkers, etc and say, "You know what? George Lucas really raped my childhood." Seriously, there is a time and a place for everything. As they say in Turkey, evash!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I think we need to distinguish a hatred for George Lucas personally and being disgusted for what he has done to the OOT, cause those are two different complaints.

I for one like George Lucas as an individual, he is one of the few family men in Hollywood, and when you see him around his kids, you can see the guy is a great father. I think Lucas is actually pretty humble when he does interviews for the success he has, and always find them very compelling. Do I hate George Lucas, NO WAY!!!! The man created fucking Star Wars! Am I disgusted with George Lucas over the PT? NO way, the PT is what it is and for anyone to be mad at George cause they think the PT sucks, get over it, I will criticize it , but I will not take it personally.

Am I disgusted with Lucas over the treatment of the OOT? YES!!!!! I bought a DVD player in 1998 solely for the OOT movies, and have waited, and waited, and waited 9 years and all I have is a slightly better laserdisk version of the greatest trilogy of all-time! If Lucas released the OOT fully remastered, he wouldn't hear from me ever again, cause DVD will last forever, just like CD's, in which I have had for 20 years and could care less if anything better comes out.

Do I take it too seriously, in terms of when I log on, yes, in terms of the bigger problems in the world, of course not. I think men dying over in Iraq are more serious then some damn OOT DVD's I want, but when all of us log onto this webpage, we have to put it in context, it is a big deal til you log off.
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Originally posted by: C3PX
I very much agree with anchorhead about the current state of TV and entertainment, but I don't see it relevent to people complaining about George Lucas.


I was just pointing out that we're in a meaner society in general, these days, and I think it bleeds over into several areas of our culture, including public forums. People are more apt to be mean in their comments than they used to be (about most any subject).



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Originally posted by: TheCassidy
And I'm sorry you think so little of yourself that you felt I was referring to you.


I don't understand anywhere in any of my responses that I implied I thought little of myself, but okay.

My assertion is not that George Lucas is the devil. I do have much respect for the man and appreciate everything he has given me. I would shake his hand and thank him if I met him tomarrow. My wonderful memories from my childhood of the early 80's are great and filled with Darth Vader and Tie Fighter toys. That said, I still cannot condone his revisionist ways and complete lack of regard for the preservation of his original ideas. I am cool with re-doing them all he wants, put Jango Fett on the Second Death Star for all I'm concerned, but for crying out loud, give us ONE completely restored release of the OOT as it was presented in it's original theatrical release. That is my contention, I hate that my one uttered statment caused this thread to spiral out of control, but you presented a question, I answered in my opinion, and I get blasted by you. That makes no sense to me and I'm sorry you cannot stand the point of view I carry. Believe it or not, I do agree with you that there are a group of poeple who constantly whine and quibble over the stupid little stuff, but I fall nowhere in that group.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Cassidy, I don't know what your problem is, but all you've been doing the past couple of days is proving what a big fucking dick you are. It's getting old, and you're not funny. Leave the boards if they bother you so much, or remind you of TFn so much.
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I read it, I didn't disregard it. I just wanted to explain my point and where I stood. That is the thing I really hate about any forum is that we all lose the sight and sound ability we have to read people, I've noticed so many problems coming from something being typed a certain way but read another. Either way, who cares, Cassidy we are both Star Wars fans, Originaltrilogy posters, and fellow humans. No problems, I did not intend to keep it going, as stated, I just wanted to air out my position and then be done with it.
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CO..WTF you ruined SW!!
All your base are belong to us !!!
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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Originally posted by: bkev
Well, excuse me for being only 13!
I am of the opinion that many SE changes are good, other than the screw-ups on the DVD, Jabba, and Jedi Rocks


I'm 14, and I hate every change made. Interesting...well, not really. Most kids like the changes. I'm just wierd.

Like I said, only a few; see, Han shooting first is where it's at. Yub Nub I still can't decide on. Red Vader lightsaber? Go for it! White hoth? What could be better! Old Sarlaac? Sweet!
However...
Extra CGI? Didn't ruin the movie, but some was unneeded. Cloud City enhanced? I like that a lot. New ROTJ celebration? Better in SE than '04.
See, that's where I stand.

Wow, after seeing how much YOU guys can write, I feel unintelligent.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Great thread topic. Let's see... 1976. Whew! Just made the cut.

Edit:...oh, and I agree with Tiptup. Furthermore, I took the whole thing personally, because Lucas almost ripped the spiritual heart out of Star Wars entirely. I thought the journey was the epic, not the fancy digital scenery.
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No. the older generation's job is to educate the next generation. We can't let lucas tamper with history to such an extent that years from now, nobody will know han shot that bitch, greedo, like a badass and didn't sit there waiting for a laser bolt to fly past his ear.

It's odd as hell though when you think about it. Older members here remember the original film, love it, want to see it restored the way it DESERVES to be... and me? I was 12 years old when tpm came out in theaters. 12! I'll always remember what the theatrical version of tpm was like after lucas is done screwing around with it in a special edition... hmmm and I won't bother to try to preserve it that's for sure. He can screw with the prequels... leave the originals alone though.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Well, not under 30, but under 25 maybe.

My nephew, who is 7 years younger than me, was a Star Wars fan before I was and actually is the one who got me into Star Wars. He was born on May 25th (yes, the same day SW was released), but he was born in 1978, so he'll be 29 next month. I know he saw ESB theatrically in 1980 and he became a Darth Vader fanatic at the tender age of two. We went to see ROTJ for his 5th birthday in '83.

I don't "disregard" any Star Wars fan, but I have to say that I generally give more credence to fans who are old enough to have seen the OT on the big screen (I guess that includes anyone who saw the limited OT theatrical screenings in 1987), and who's first Star Wars exposure WASN'T the SE or the PT.

I guess it's sort of like the difference between Beatles fans who were alive during the late 1960s Beatlemania & listened to the original albums on vinyl, and those who've only just recently discovered the Beatles on CD (I sort of fall in-between the two categories).

Some experiences are just "you kinda had to be there to understand" moments.



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I submit that there are three classes of fans:

-Those old enough to remember Star Wars as a stand-alone film.
-Those who grew up with the trilogy as a complete set.
-Those who grew up with the Special Edition and prequels.

For the first group, even the second two films were an intrusion of sorts. This is my father - he still insists that "Darth" is Vader's first name.

I'm in the second group. Han shoots first, damnit, but I don't flinch at the title "A New Hope," and I'm happy to tell you why a planet of Ewoks is better than a planet of Wookies.

As for the third group, that's my brothers, but I'm not sure there is much consensus opinion, apart from "Natalie Portman is hot." I defer to bkev et all.

Oh, and I'm 26.
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Well that's completely agreeable. Natalie Portman and Keira Knightely were the two best things to come from the prequels.

mmmmmmmm
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Heh, true enough. At least if you're that young. ...Technically, Keira Knightely "comes" from Bend it Like Beckham, and Natalie Portman from The Professional. Actually, I like Natalie mostly because of Mars Attacks! - is that wrong of me?
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Z0MFG NAT IS HOTZORZ!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist playing the part of the apparently typical star wars fan my age XD

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Originally posted by: Nobody
I submit that there are three classes of fans:

-Those old enough to remember Star Wars as a stand-alone film.
-Those who grew up with the trilogy as a complete set.
-Those who grew up with the Special Edition and prequels.

For the first group, even the second two films were an intrusion of sorts. This is my father - he still insists that "Darth" is Vader's first name.

I'm in the second group. Greedo shoots first, damnit, but I don't flinch at the title "A New Hope," and I'm happy to tell you why a planet of Ewoks is better than a planet of Wookies.

As for the third group, that's my brothers, but I'm not sure there is much consensus opinion, apart from "Natalie Portman is hot." I defer to bkev et all.

Oh, and I'm 26.


Don't you mean "Han shoots first, damnit"?

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He was saying basically, "I can tolerate the special edition except for that" - I think.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em