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Star Wars Episode IX (was) to be directed by Colin Trevorrow - DUEL OF THE FATES RIP — Page 8

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It was interesting and enjoyable to step into a virtual theater and let it play out in my mind’s eye. It’s not amazing, but it’s much more coherent and sensible than what we got in TROS.

It’s easy to see what they borrowed from this script. Thing is… all those borrowed items make sense here, but don’t there.

As a Luke fan, his role (and direction!) in TROS feels even more disappointing when compared to this.

So, in this script, the First Order seems to be able to destroy a planet using a star destroyer (albeit maybe a special one?). So that’s pretty weird.

Hux childishly trying to use the Force to move things while Kylo walks in would have been very Spaceballs.

Luke’s comments about the dark side leaving Kylo hollow is 1000% the right message to carry forward from TLJ, and the literal empty well at the climax is a lovely picture.

Finn feels like a valid character by the end. Weird.

This script obviously needed Carrie Fischer, and so comparing it to TROS directly isn’t fair when it comes to Leia. This script has much more of an apparent time jump from TLJ, and I bet TROS has a much shorter one due to shackling themselves to footage for Leia from TFA.

It’s too bad we won’t ever get to know how Trevorrow would have directed this. Disney should have pushed this movie back a year. They could have cited Carrie’s passing, and we all would have understood. Don’t cite business reasons why they didn’t want to; their reward for that is on a spreadsheet somewhere, whereas the artpiece in question must bear the scars. I’m not an investor, so I’ll obstinately insist on artistic integrity for all the good that will do.

Jeez, I’m rambling.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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Reading the script I do believe you could probably have accounted for Fisher’s absence by using the film’s time jump to have her die between movies, and then split her storytelling duties here between other characters. Have her military duties handled by Connix, and then have the familial/Force duties handled by… Anakin. Honestly, his effect on Kylo probably would be more meaningful as he’s written than Leia’s since Anakin is who he looks up to, Anakin’s the only person in the world who has ever been where he is, and Anakin’s the only person who can explain to him why it’s better to do good while you can before you go.

Plus, having the film stop for a second after the first act to recognize Leia’s absence through a resistance memorial somewhere on the compound that the characters meet at would have been a much better tribute to the character than the weird semi-resurrection they gave her in TROS. Plus having Fisher’s real-life daughter assume the duties of Fisher’s best known character, but with Lourde’s character instead, seems more in keeping with how this trilogy works.

Alternatively, you could have ROSE be the new Resistance leader in that case, but I feel that probably takes her out of the action too much and I like the way she’s used here.

To the idea that they should have pushed this back a year - they probably could have developed this in the time they gave it just fine, if they hadn’t been so insistent on specific beats being hit. If they were actually going to push it back a year, my feeling is they’d have done that, and then just gotten Rian Johnson back. But then again - who’s to say they wouldn’t have tried the same thing with him that they did with Trevorrow, now that they’re developing THE END instead of just a Part 2.

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Broom Kid said:

Reading the script I do believe you could probably have accounted for Fisher’s absence by using the film’s time jump to have her die between movies, and then split her storytelling duties here between other characters. Have her military duties handled by Connix, and then have the familial/Force duties handled by… Anakin. Honestly, his effect on Kylo probably would be more meaningful as he’s written than Leia’s since Anakin is who he looks up to, Anakin’s the only person in the world who has ever been where he is, and Anakin’s the only person who can explain to him why it’s better to do good while you can before you go.

Plus, having the film stop for a second after the first act to recognize Leia’s absence through a resistance memorial somewhere on the compound that the characters meet at would have been a much better tribute to the character than the weird semi-resurrection they gave her in TROS. Plus having Fisher’s real-life daughter assume the duties of Fisher’s best known character, but with Lourde’s character instead, seems more in keeping with how this trilogy works.

Alternatively, you could have ROSE be the new Resistance leader in that case, but I feel that probably takes her out of the action too much and I like the way she’s used here.

To the idea that they should have pushed this back a year - they probably could have developed this in the time they gave it just fine, if they hadn’t been so insistent on specific beats being hit. If they were actually going to push it back a year, my feeling is they’d have done that, and then just gotten Rian Johnson back. But then again - who’s to say they wouldn’t have tried the same thing with him that they did with Trevorrow, now that they’re developing THE END instead of just a Part 2.

Totally agree, It makes me wonder if there is more to Trevorrow leaving the project than what we know, perhaps KK disliked the script outright but for them to go with JJ’s script instead seems odd.
Hopefully we get some light shed on what happened soon.

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idir_hh said:

Broom Kid said:

Reading the script I do believe you could probably have accounted for Fisher’s absence by using the film’s time jump to have her die between movies, and then split her storytelling duties here between other characters. Have her military duties handled by Connix, and then have the familial/Force duties handled by… Anakin. Honestly, his effect on Kylo probably would be more meaningful as he’s written than Leia’s since Anakin is who he looks up to, Anakin’s the only person in the world who has ever been where he is, and Anakin’s the only person who can explain to him why it’s better to do good while you can before you go.

Plus, having the film stop for a second after the first act to recognize Leia’s absence through a resistance memorial somewhere on the compound that the characters meet at would have been a much better tribute to the character than the weird semi-resurrection they gave her in TROS. Plus having Fisher’s real-life daughter assume the duties of Fisher’s best known character, but with Lourde’s character instead, seems more in keeping with how this trilogy works.

Alternatively, you could have ROSE be the new Resistance leader in that case, but I feel that probably takes her out of the action too much and I like the way she’s used here.

To the idea that they should have pushed this back a year - they probably could have developed this in the time they gave it just fine, if they hadn’t been so insistent on specific beats being hit. If they were actually going to push it back a year, my feeling is they’d have done that, and then just gotten Rian Johnson back. But then again - who’s to say they wouldn’t have tried the same thing with him that they did with Trevorrow, now that they’re developing THE END instead of just a Part 2.

Totally agree, It makes me wonder if there is more to Trevorrow leaving the project than what we know, perhaps KK disliked the script outright but for them to go with JJ’s script instead seems odd.
Hopefully we get some light shed what happened soon.

Of course there were more issues than just Carrie’s passing that lead to Trevorrow’s leaving. You have to understand as well that when they fired him and went with JJ, JJ didn’t have a script. So who’s to say in the end that they actually preferred what JJ came up with.

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I like the first ‘mission’ in the script a whole lot and I like the idea of a galactic communications blackout. I like how Rose is a character in this. I like Finn’s arc. I really really don’t like anything else in there. Rey and Poe together?? It’s bad, folks.

"Aquilae is a small independent country like North Vietnam… The Empire is like America ten years from now, after gangsters assassinated the Emperor & were elevated to power in a rigged election… We are at a turning point: fascism or revolution." - George Lucas, 1973
Champions of the Force

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Some of my thoughts on the script, now that I’ve read the whole thing:

-The opening scene is great. It really helps reintroduce our characters and show how much they’ve changed.

-I love how the First Order is portrayed in this movie. You really get a sense of their oppressive control of the galaxy.

-Rose is great in this movie. She felt too boring and preachy in TLJ, but she’s really fun here.

-I love how this movie adds value to Canto Bight and the broom boy scene, showing people across the galaxy rising up against the First Order.

-Kylo’s arc is decent. I didn’t like some of the things Trevorrow did to his character, but it’s certainly better than his arc in TROS.

-I’m surprised at how well Rey and Poe’s relationship was handled. I thought it would be forced and shoehorned in, but it’s actually built up throughout the movie.

-I love Luke’s role in this movie. He appears throughout, giving guidance to Rey, Kylo, and Leia. It makes me wish we got more of him in TROS.

-The climax is amazing. The Coruscant citizen uprising is a great conclusion to Finn’s character arc, and Rey and Kylo’s duel on Mortis wraps up both characters’ arcs much better than TROS did. I really love the visual of the empty well, and I love the idea of a blindfolded Rey using the force to guide her actions.

-The ending is a great conclusion to the saga. Finn telling the Canto Bight kids the story of the movies, and Rey returning to teach a new generation the ways of the force, wraps up the saga in a really satisfying way.

There are some parts I didn’t like, but most of it is really good. I wish we got this movie instead of TROS.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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StarkillerAG said:

-I love Luke’s role in this movie. He appears throughout, giving guidance to Rey, Kylo, and Leia. It makes me wish we got more of him in TROS.

Yes, me too. It’s unfathomable how underutilized Luke was in TROS. Especially in the wake of Carrie’s death, Luke should have been much more of a guiding force for both Rey and Kylo. Kind of a no-brainer and definitely one of TROS’s biggest missed opportunities.

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Alright, I’ve finally read it. Here’s a brief summary of my feelings, with the qualifier being that this was supposedly the first draft and they obviously would have changed things.

Pros:

  • Rey’s story. It follows in a clear line what was set up from TLJ. She’s from nowhere, but that doesn’t make her no one. She’s going to rebuild the Jedi, but she’s going to do it her way, and will fix their mistakes.
  • Finn’s story. Full circle for him, trying to give other stormtroopers the clarity of choice that he had. Saving them, not fighting them - the proper progression for his arc.
  • Rose’s role. She doesn’t have an arc or anything, but at least she has a presence that is befitting a main character.
  • A solid mission for the Resistance. Transmitting a message across the galaxy to rise up and then taking the capital both make sense as a trilogy-capping goal for the heroes.
  • At least one interesting scene with the Knights of Ren. It’s not much, but it’s something.
  • Some genuinely funny jokes.
  • A fun opening mission for the main group to play off each other.
  • Going to Mortis and really exploring the idea of balance and what that means is really smart and interesting.
  • Luke’s presence, appearing to both Rey and Kylo.
  • The moment where Rey reaches out into the Force, and connects with everyone and gains strength from their hope. A really beautiful moment that encapsulates what we’ve always known is true about from the Force and puts it in action in a way that should have been dramatized long ago.
  • Rey’s final scenes, where she has the choice to live or join the Force, and then we see her show up at the end to train the kids. Just a really fitting and meaningful end to the saga.

Neutral:

  • The conclusion, in a galactic sense. TFA and TLJ had a clear message about the ever presence of the dark side, and the need to always be prepared to fight. This ends with a simple ‘we beat them for real this time’ vibe. I say neutral only because the scope of the Resistance’s victory makes it feel much more final than what we saw in ROTJ.
  • The grey Jedi of it all. I think all the ideas are in the right place - Rey not being afraid of her emotions, her love and her attachments and all that - but I’m not sure they’re all executed in a way that serves this theme. In particular, the idea that she’s using the darkness within her, we only see a couple hints of this and it’s not really remarked upon. She kills a Knight of Ren with Force lightning and Rey’s not sure if that was good or bad in the moment. Ultimately, when she says she’s balancing the light and the dark, the only real assumption, with nothing else said, is that using the lightning is okay. The implications aren’t thought through and they lead to a bad spot. It makes sense that Rey isn’t following all the teachings of the Jedi, but what about using the Force for knowledge and defense and not attack? There’s no clarity here.

Cons:

  • Kylo Ren. His story in this is just painfully bad. I don’t necessarily have a problem with the idea that he hadn’t hit rock bottom yet in terms of badness in TFA and TLJ, but for that rock bottom here to be immediately before he changed his mind and then died is really just awful. It means his entire story here was just ‘become more powerful than Darth Vader,’ which is such a terrible abandonment of everything that made the character interesting.
  • Poe Dameron. Pretty much does nothing of note except be in love with Rey.
  • Rey and Poe. Silly and out of left field, considering the last two movies. The ideas they were trying to accomplish with it could have been better done elsewhere.
  • Rey and Kylo. Listen, I’m not a Reylo, per se, but it’s kind of hard not to see how this would have worked. TLJ really built up their relationship (romantic or not), but it’s totally shafted here. If it wasn’t bad enough that they have no Force bonds and their only scene together is them fighting, they also had to reveal that Kylo killed Rey’s parents (no reason) which retroactively changes their dynamic in TLJ completely (for the worse), because he knew this all along. Anyway, back to Reylo, if Trevorrow and Connelly wanted Rey to be in love with someone, flying in the face of the Jedi code, and they wanted to balance the light and the dark, the simplest and cleanest solution, based on what had been established in the last two films, was bringing Rey and Ben together.
  • Leia. Despite this being pre-Carrie’s death, Leia has essentially nothing to do, and also has completely given up on her son.
  • The plotting, in general, is sloppy. The number of planets featured is laughable. The opening mission barely has a goal, and ultimately has very little to do with the rest of the film. The FO has planet destroying Star Destroyers, but it’s literally just a throwaway scene and doesn’t factor into the story at all. The middle section of the film is relatively short (the script is front and back heavy). Characters split up nearly every other scene, leading to sections where we’re jumping back and forth between like 6 or 7 different storylines. And perhaps worst of all, the final showdown between Rey and Kylo has basically nothing to do with everything else going on.

So, mixed bag, though a lot of my problems feel like things that would have been corrected upon further drafts. So, until those drafts are leaked, I’ll say this is a very ambitious script, with big swings that I really appreciate, even in it’s overall messiness. Ultimately it’s very similar in that sense to the final product that we got, though I have to say on paper I find the ideas being played with here more interesting than those we ended up with in the final cut of JJ’s Episode IX.

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Hal 9000 said:

I’ll have to read it and see if anything could be nodded to in a fan edit.

Oddly enough, there are a couple lines in this (like verbatim) that I had the idea to include in a fan edit right after I saw the movie two months ago, way before the leak. I will say at this point I think only one of them can be accomplished, but still.

StarkillerAG said:

yotsuya said:

idir_hh said:

Full Colin Trevarrow script:
https://mega.nz/#!MegFDK7Y!dK6dhZsRXTmIgZ39l9719Macz1TQCZQtlhSCz0EdmOI

Thanks. I’ve added it to my script collection and I’ll give it a read when I have a chance. Again, I think having Kylo so conflicted for three films and it not ending in his redemption is a mistake.

It does end with his redemption though. At the end of the movie, Kylo learns how to drain the life force out of people, and uses it to drain Rey’s life force. Just when he’s about to kill Rey, Leia talks to him through the force, convincing him to give some of his life force back to Rey, sacrificing himself to save her. It’s a last minute redemption, but it’s still a redemption.

Here’s what’s dumb about this and why it is in no way a redemption: he is the one who is about to kill her, and his redemption is just deciding not to, and sacrificing himself so that she doesn’t die - except she still fucking dies.

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DominicCobb said:

Hal 9000 said:

I’ll have to read it and see if anything could be nodded to in a fan edit.

Oddly enough, there are a couple lines in this (like verbatim) that I had the idea to include in a fan edit right after I saw the movie two months ago, way before the leak. I will say at this point I think only one of them can be accomplished, but still.

StarkillerAG said:

yotsuya said:

idir_hh said:

Full Colin Trevarrow script:
https://mega.nz/#!MegFDK7Y!dK6dhZsRXTmIgZ39l9719Macz1TQCZQtlhSCz0EdmOI

Thanks. I’ve added it to my script collection and I’ll give it a read when I have a chance. Again, I think having Kylo so conflicted for three films and it not ending in his redemption is a mistake.

It does end with his redemption though. At the end of the movie, Kylo learns how to drain the life force out of people, and uses it to drain Rey’s life force. Just when he’s about to kill Rey, Leia talks to him through the force, convincing him to give some of his life force back to Rey, sacrificing himself to save her. It’s a last minute redemption, but it’s still a redemption.

Here’s what’s dumb about this and why it is in no way a redemption: he is the one who is about to kill her, and his redemption is just deciding not to, and sacrificing himself so that she doesn’t die - except she still fucking dies.

Thanks for the detailed pro/con list. Sounds like the cons are pretty significant. I think what this story does with Kylo makes it worse than what we got in TROS. Make that Kylo and Poe. Sounds like he concentrated on Rey, Finn, and Rose.

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One my favourite aspects of this script is precisely Kylo Rens character, they didn’t shy away from going all out evil, surpassing even Vader. Seeing him struggle to succeed where his grandfather “failed”- killing his sentiment - his grandfathers greatest weakness, Kylo subsequently becoming emptier and emptier until by the end he becomes an empty shell of himself. I really liked how Kylo destroying Vaders helmet symbolically portrayed his finally becoming his own entity which I think would have been great character development. But nah KK and co decided to go with a half arsed attempt at a safe and cliche ‘redemption’.

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yotsuya said:

DominicCobb said:

Hal 9000 said:

I’ll have to read it and see if anything could be nodded to in a fan edit.

Oddly enough, there are a couple lines in this (like verbatim) that I had the idea to include in a fan edit right after I saw the movie two months ago, way before the leak. I will say at this point I think only one of them can be accomplished, but still.

StarkillerAG said:

yotsuya said:

idir_hh said:

Full Colin Trevarrow script:
https://mega.nz/#!MegFDK7Y!dK6dhZsRXTmIgZ39l9719Macz1TQCZQtlhSCz0EdmOI

Thanks. I’ve added it to my script collection and I’ll give it a read when I have a chance. Again, I think having Kylo so conflicted for three films and it not ending in his redemption is a mistake.

It does end with his redemption though. At the end of the movie, Kylo learns how to drain the life force out of people, and uses it to drain Rey’s life force. Just when he’s about to kill Rey, Leia talks to him through the force, convincing him to give some of his life force back to Rey, sacrificing himself to save her. It’s a last minute redemption, but it’s still a redemption.

Here’s what’s dumb about this and why it is in no way a redemption: he is the one who is about to kill her, and his redemption is just deciding not to, and sacrificing himself so that she doesn’t die - except she still fucking dies.

Thanks for the detailed pro/con list. Sounds like the cons are pretty significant. I think what this story does with Kylo makes it worse than what we got in TROS. Make that Kylo and Poe. Sounds like he concentrated on Rey, Finn, and Rose.

They did to Kylo what TROS did to Rey - ruined the character almost completely. Really, the two swapped. DOTF Rey gets a good story in the broad strokes, though without the proper meat to make it perfect. Poe is definitely worse here, though TROS Poe isn’t amazing to begin with. DOTF Finn and Rose very clearly are much better than their TROS counterparts.

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idir_hh said:

One my favourite aspects of this script is precisely Kylo Rens character, they didn’t shy away from going all out evil, surpassing even Vader. Seeing him struggle to succeed where his grandfather “failed”- killing his sentiment - his grandfathers greatest weakness, Kylo subsequently becoming emptier and emptier until at by the end he becomes an empty shell of himself.

Already happened in TFA.

I really liked how Kylo destroying Vaders helmet symbolically portrayed his finally becoming his own entity which I think would have been great character development.

The same idea was already accomplished in TLJ.

But nah KK and co decided to go with a half arsed attempt at a safe and cliche ‘redemption’.

Sometimes the “safe” and “cliche” choice is actually just the right choice for the story that’s being told.

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I remembered that Making Star Wars had leaked a summary of a later Trevorrow draft awhile back. The summary was poorly written and hard to follow, but now that I’ve read the first draft I decided to take another look:
https://makingstarwars.net/2020/01/i-read-colin-trevorrow-and-derek-connollys-final-star-wars-episode-ix-script/

Unsurprisingly it seems to have fixed many of my issues. The second act is bulked up, Rey’s climactic mission becomes the main mission to transmit the message, the Knights of Ren are far more prominent with one of them being the final villain that Rey and Ben face together. Things are simplified, like Kylo’s quest in the first act and meeting Lando. Kylo in general seems to have a bit more humanity - apparently it was Snoke, not him, who killed Rey’s parents - and he has at least one Force bond with Rey. Also interesting that this is now post-Carrie’s death, but they still include her, but in a similar capacity to TROS where she has a few scenes in the beginning and then dies. In that case I’d suspect they were already working with the idea of using deleted footage of Carrie.

I’d be very curious to read this draft, as it seems much better based on the summary. On the downside, it seems like they’ve lost Coruscant and Mortis in this draft, which is too bad.

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I want to read every draft of every one of the films. Not possible with what is currently out there.

I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.

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yotsuya said:

I want to read every draft of every one of the films. Not possible with what is currently out there.

Same. In fact I’d probably love more than anything to read the drafts of JJ’s IX.

I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.

Personally I thought the final space battle in TROS was weak sauce. Nothing much happens besides the fleet of “people” showing up. Honestly DOTF is kind of similar, there’s a space battle without much of a purpose and that exact moment is in it (right down to Lando leading the charge). It’s actually better than the moment in TROS because it’s properly set up in the rest of the script.

The only thing it’s missing I guess is the “epic” fleet of Star Destroyers. But DOTF has what basically no SW film has, which is an epic LOTR-style ground battle. Maybe the stormtrooper rebellion isn’t terribly well set up in TFA and TLJ (shame about that deleted Phasma scene), but it’s still a fitting end for Finn’s arc and feels fitting in a larger sense for the saga.

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yotsuya said:

I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.

I don’t know why you think the battle of Coruscant wouldn’t have been “epic.” Based on the script’s description, it sounds like the biggest battle in Star Wars yet. A massive citizen uprising occurs on the ground level, while an Eclipse class dreadnought struggles to survive against the entire First Order fleet. The battle of Exegol in TROS even copied a moment directly from the battle of Coruscant, Lando’s “on your left” moment. So I think people who watch Star Wars for the cool spaceship action would be mostly satisfied by Trevorrow’s version.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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Tobar said:

Here’s a gallery with all of the known concept art for DOTF

Here are some highlights from the battle of Coruscant:

Now having read the script, this is kind of funny. This is art of the “capital” of the FO, and there’s this big surprise reveal that it’s actually a ship that can fly. Well, if it looked like this, no shit.

Also, I should note that the art in that gallery comes from both the draft that has leaked and the later draft that hasn’t fully leaked yet.

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Yeah, looking at that concept art, I don’t understand how anyone could think the climactic battle in Trevorrow’s script wouldn’t have been epic enough. It certainly looks better than the confusing, blurry battle we got in JJ’s version.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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StarkillerAG said:

yotsuya said:

I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.

I don’t know why you think the battle of Coruscant wouldn’t have been “epic.” Based on the script’s description, it sounds like the biggest battle in Star Wars yet. A massive citizen uprising occurs on the ground level, while an Eclipse class dreadnought struggles to survive against the entire First Order fleet. The battle of Exegol in TROS even copied a moment directly from the battle of Coruscant, Lando’s “on your left” moment. So I think people who watch Star Wars for the cool spaceship action would be mostly satisfied by Trevorrow’s version.

I didn’t say epic enough. I said it wasn’t a space battle.

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yotsuya said:

StarkillerAG said:

yotsuya said:

I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. > yotsuya said:

I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.

I don’t know why you think the battle of Coruscant wouldn’t have been “epic.” Based on the script’s description, it sounds like the biggest battle in Star Wars yet. A massive citizen uprising occurs on the ground level, while an Eclipse class dreadnought struggles to survive against the entire First Order fleet. The battle of Exegol in TROS even copied a moment directly from the battle of Coruscant, Lando’s “on your left” moment. So I think people who watch Star Wars for the cool spaceship action would be mostly satisfied by Trevorrow’s version.

I didn’t say epic enough. I said it wasn’t a space battle.

Read your comment again. You said yourself, “For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.” So you were complaining about the final battle not being epic enough, which isn’t a valid complaint in my opinion.

And I don’t get what you’re saying with there not being a space battle. I assume you haven’t read the script, since there’s a whole space side to the battle, where Leia has to defend her flagship against an armada of Star Destroyers. You might want to actually read the script before making assumptions about it. TROS was the movie that didn’t have a space battle, every battle in the movie was within a planet’s atmosphere.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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yotsuya said:

I want to read every draft of every one of the films. Not possible with what is currently out there.

I think the key to why some of us think TROS is a good final film is how epic the battle is. The series is titled Star Wars. The hallmark of the series has been the space battles. In TROS we get one actually in the atmosphere of Exogol. I really haven’t head anything about this that has any descent space battle. I think the Stromtrooper rebellion is a cool idea, but one that needs more time to play out. That would have been a cool thing to have Finn and Rose address in TLJ instead of Fathiers and gamblers. But to bring it out just in the final film seems a little rushed to me. For me, the epic nature of Palaptine, a fleet of planet killers, and so many other things about TROS just were so much better than what I see here. I just don’t see the epic nature and how that adds to the saga lore.

I like TROS quite a bit, but the final battle is easily the weakest part. First of all, the rallying of all their allies is not properly established. Just because the battle is large and “epic” doesn’t make it interesting. The only interesting space battles in Star Wars are the ones with personal stakes, which is why the Death Star battle in Star Wars works, while the Death Star battle in ROTJ doesn’t. No amount of good ships fighting any amount of bad ships is as engaging as Luke letting go and trusting in the force as he takes that last shot. Star Wars works best when the big stakes are inseparably intertwined with the smaller stakes.

This is where the more carefully established uprising in DOTF seems to carry more weight than the battle in TROS. Finn has a personal stake in the final battle.

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 (Edited)

Removing Coruscant and Mortis seems to have been a mandate by Disney, they probably thought the Prequel imagery would upset the “hardcore fans” which is most likely also why they canned George Lucas’ scrips. Its infuriating how short sighted they were.

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Where are you getting that “Mandate from Disney” noise from? That flat out doesn’t make any sense.

Also, they didn’t “can” George Lucas’ scripts because George never turned in scripts. He had notes that he didn’t want to hand over as part of the sale, but then he did anyway. And apparently they were really weird and Osmosis-Jones-y stories about the Midichlorians - and even that we only know because HE said so in an interview with James Cameron. There were never “scripts” of the sequel trilogy for Disney to “can”

These sound like YouTube talking points, which are very often designed to infuriate you so you’ll keep watching because that’s how their algorithm works. Factual accuracy is - if you’re LUCKY - a secondary concern.