Star Wars Colortiming & Cinematography (was What changes was done to STAR WARS in '93?) — Page 7

What is it -1 always says? "Colors are not final"? :)

But yeah, I agree. And sometimes R2's panels look teal instead of blue. I'm sure he'll improve the color timing later.

-1 and cinch have a theory that the early-80s transfers have the most accurate colors. I was never sure about that - judging by stuff like the lack of the Tantive burn marks, my theory was that a new low-contrast IP was made from the untimed negative, one that would transfer better to 1" analog tape on early-80s telecine equipment.

Now, I'm not so sure. Obviously, tweaking was done so it would look better in the analog video realm, and the image is often way too bright with very flattened contrast. But now I'm wondering if the film source for the pre-1992 releases did in fact have the original timing.

As a test, I took the Binary Sunset image LexX posted back in page 1, which he captured from a "1983 rental video" (possibly PAL, judging by the slighty squished image, indicative of an uncorrected 720x576 PAL capture). I tweaked it in (of all things) Microsoft Office Picture Manager. All I did was turn down the midtones and shadows, turn up the highlights, and turn down the saturation a little.

First the original screenshot, then my version:

Then, as another test, I tweaked the Japanese Special Collection image msycamore posted, also back in page 1. This is from (I think) the Dark_Sega capture, the red channel is bleeding to the right, but look what I was able to get out of it. This time, I turned up the midtones and highlights, turned down the shadows, turned down the contrast (to compensate for the extremely high-contrast result), then increased the amount of red (hue 0) by 10 points and brought the saturation down a couple points.

Original image:

My version:

And the results for both are very close to what Mike Verta says the scene looked like in the IB Technicolor print screening. I was stunned that I could adjust these old 80s video transfers and get a result that approximated the '77 timing. The colors seem to match; it's only the brightness, contrast, and gamma that are completely different.

UPDATE: I decided to tweak the other pan-and-scan images LexX put up

I know that the stars are gone; this is meant to show the color accuracy, even if I have to crush the detail to do it

Again, ignore the crushed/posterized/solarized details on Leia's face and elsewhere. I'm not concerned if the contrast looks weird or if details are crushed out. I'm trying to bring out the colors that the transfer's flat contrast and gamma boosting obscured.

This is interesting to me - I've been trying to adjust the 1982 Laserdisc and have gone in a totally different direction (!). The 82 Laserdisc is very different than the 82 Rental VHS colour wise (Based on comparison between the preservations of them done by Starkiller)

Original 82 LD:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2afzm7o&s=5 /see repost below

My adjusted settings through VLC:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=519afr&s=5 /see repost below

Leia Original:

VLC adjust:

This isn't from the 1982 laserdisc or U.S. rental release. It's from a PAL video - the 80s PAL transfer was sort of different (for example, it had a squeezed crawl and flyover).

TServo2049 said:

This isn't from the 1982 laserdisc or U.S. rental release. It's from a PAL video - the 80s PAL transfer was sort of different (for example, it had a squeezed crawl and flyover).

Oh I see sorry I jumped in a bit quick there! I agree with you that I think these early 80s releases have more of the original colours left in them. Its tricky trying to work out how much is still there and what exactly is off in each release..

EDIT Here are some frames of the adjusted LD where I think it starts to get close to some of the film cells you posted (other times its way out)

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=8zfdw8&s=5 see repost below

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=24eqse0&s=5 ""

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=faveh4&s=5 ""

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=so4tpe&s=5 ""

Here's something that stood out for me in two linked frames TServo2049 posted

There seems to be a greater depth of blue in these scenes (which coincidentally(?) are next to each other in the film) which seems to have drained out to somewhere. Am I seeing this correctly?

I didn't post the top frame, that came from a Derann 8mm print.

What do you mean about the blue "draining out", Frank? In what transfer?

Even though the colors of the film source used for the old transfers may have been fairly accurate to the original theatrical timing, the analog NTSC color space cannot accurately reproduce the colors on the film. In fact, as Mike Verta told me, modern digital video can't do it either - though sRGB comes closer than NTSC. The British and other supporters of PAL had a point when they said that NTSC stands for "Never Twice the Same Colour."

The screenshots I adjusted came from a PAL video. I think that captures of the 80s PAL laserdiscs may be more helpful than the NTSC ones.

I'm not exactly sure what I mean by 'draining out' now I've read your explanation. Maybe incorrectly balanced or compressed on other transfers perhaps?

Do 8mm, 16mm and 35mm all 'hold' colour differently? I mean can you only fit a certain amount from a big colour cup into a small colour cup so to speak? If so, supposedly certain subtle tones will get shaved off and then if you add print fade and other adjustments on top of that when converting down to whatever your small format is then... = bad end result?

^ http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Save-Star-Wars-Dot-Com/post/472541/#TopicPost472541

SilverWook wrote: Okay, here we go. Keep in mind this was done about five years ago, aiming a camcorder at a white sheet of paper taped to a wall! The camera focus was a bit off kilter most of the time, but you can see how nice the colors are.

Pics in post.

this is the link i got the still from via an earlier helpful link

http://passionesuper8.blogspot.com/2011/09/star-wars-episode-iva-new-hope.html

and before that also

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Colortiming-Cinematography-was-What-changes-was-done-to-STAR-WARS-in-93/post/566665/#TopicPost566665