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Star Wars 1997 DTS CD-ROMs — Page 3

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Mavimao said:

 

SilverWook said:


No problem. It will be interesting to find out if they are different than the Blu Ray mixes.


I believe - at least with EP4 - that they went back, digitized all of the original recordings and totally redid the entire sound mix for the blu ray.

The SE's were just redone using the 4 track masters.

 

Strangely, if they had time and money to digitize original recordings of a soundtrack for Bluray you'd think one would have the time and money to get the damn picture right too, before packaging and distributing it.....LOL 

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 It seems Matthew Wood did some extensive research and such....time is still money to these people....it could have been done unless they just plan to ride the wave of each previous release so the fans pay for the work....LOL. 

In other words...we've been getting ripped off all this time.  LMAO

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So there is a chance the original 70mm mixes could be recreated with these?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

Not a chance—at least not as a primary source.  Though the 1997 SE mix of the first movie was mainly derived from an original four-track master, it has so many additions and changes piled on top of it that deleting them all would probably be more trouble than it's worth, and there is no suitable discrete channel source to replace them with.

Worse, a fairly severe level of dynamic range compression was used during the mastering process, supposedly to eliminate 'harshness' in transient peaks, so the broadly powerful sound of the 70mm version has been lost due to this destructive alteration and cannot be recovered.

The SE mixes of the other two movies are completely new and have little resemblance to the way they sounded in 70mm, despite having less changes in content made overall.  The 'aural aesthetic' is not the same.

Emulating the 70mm mixes by using the 1993 versions and editing as needed comes much closer to that original sound, despite having to settle for the upmixing of matrixed stereo tracks in place of true discrete channels.  The SE's make good sources for the bass, but some parts have to be substantially altered in order to sound like they actually belong there, and others deleted altogether.

 

At any rate, as I've mentioned before I'm definitely interested in using the LFE channel from the DTS track of the first film for the new version of the recreated 70mm mix, as it may provide improved fidelity over the AC3 laserdisc.  As such I eagerly await news of progress.  ;)

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In spite of SE changes, I thought the soundtrack for SW had plenty of oomph in DTS. (The one and only time I saw it in the theater.)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

Here's a thought.....

Since the "5 Star" DVD's of the SE Trilogy are supposed to have DTS...maybe what they contain is the "core" DTS tracks...hence, their smaller size.  Is there any way to confirm this by looking at just that audio aspect of them?

I'd gladly rip my DTS audio from them...with the proper instruction on how to do so of course, if it would be a starting point........  

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Theatrical DTS is a completely different format from home video versions, both in the compression algorithm used and the way the audio data is actually stored.  There is no 'core' track to be found.

There is also not actually a discrete LFE channel in the theatrical format, either; the low frequency information is stored in the surround channels and then low-pass filtered out at 80 hz.  This was due to there being no provision made for channels of less than full frequency range (compared to Dolby Digital which from the start has used a channel of limited range up to 120 hz for the LFE), and insufficient bandwidth to add a sixth full range channel.  The home versions of DTS operate more similarly to Dolby's model in this regard.

 

Those old SE bootlegs do not contain true DTS tracks, from what I recall hearing.  They are simply the AC3 laserdisc mixes converted to the DTS codec in order to have the name recognition, but there is no actual benefit to them.

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I was just thinking out loud but I'm glad for the solid information so that I can put that idea out of my head.....  :)

 

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So what will the end result of this endeavor be encoded in? Or is it too early to say?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

Well, my guess is that it will end up DTS-HD or DTS-MA.  I'm sure ElDonante will be using White Paper specifications to process these.

I am getting ready to get the files rar'd up so they can go to borisanddoris for first stage processing before moving on. 

ElDonante is currently working on the TPM audio and I know he's got a bit of a tight schedule with work. 

I'm really excited and glad that these are being done.  It will require some patience from folks due to the work & time involved to do them.....so that everyone can enjoy them.

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SilverWook said:

 

IIRC, you would still need the corresponding film print for the discs to play.

Actually, this is not entirely true.  I have collected some educational software in an attempt to better understand the audio for ROTS and it would seem that if you had the proper cables to hook up you could run things through a pc.  Of course since my budget is limited at this point & I don't have the coding knowledge or ability it would be better in the hands of an experienced sound engineer that would be willing to help us out.

All hypothetical, of course.....  ;)

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The DTS-6 can be made to play discs without film.  If you wanted to record from it, you'd need a proprietary analog cable (DB25) and a 5 channel recording mechanism.  I really don't think it'd be worth doing things that way.

Also, I can encode DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD, but DTS-MA is much easier work with and the app itself is far easier to use.  

"Alright twinkle-toes, what's your exit strategy?"

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borisanddoris said:

The DTS-6 can be made to play discs without film.  If you wanted to record from it, you'd need a proprietary analog cable (DB25) and a 5 channel recording mechanism.  I really don't think it'd be worth doing things that way.

If the ROTS discs contain the encrypted AUE files, instead of the older AUD files, then the "analogue hole" method is the only way.

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It does seem to have a 6 channel digital output as well.  The question is whether the signal(s) is encrypted or not, and whether it outputs pcm or a dts signal.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

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Moth3r said:

borisanddoris said:

The DTS-6 can be made to play discs without film.  If you wanted to record from it, you'd need a proprietary analog cable (DB25) and a 5 channel recording mechanism.  I really don't think it'd be worth doing things that way.

If the ROTS discs contain the encrypted AUE files, instead of the older AUD files, then the "analogue hole" method is the only way.

They do contain the .AUE files....and I suspect that AOTC might as well.  Hell, I still can't find out what .aue stands for except "impossible to decrypt" .... LOL

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Audio Encrypted, prolly

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Molly said:

Audio Encrypted, prolly

Must be comedy night @ the OT.......  ;)

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So will the audio files only be uploaded Jetrell?  I was there in 1997 and the theatrical 5.1 was thrilling in both dolby and sdds.  Never saw any of the three films  in THX certified theater or dts though.

I think they had a 70mm presentation somewhere in the country with dts but never got to see it as it was not my state.

I think it was a sony theater i saw star wars in so the presentation i saw was probably sdds.

Which had no problems because it was first run on the second performance of the film in that theater chain.  Otherwise i am sure the sdds problems would have been apparent.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005,

Are you asking if there are going to be other options like snail mail and such?

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Sorry i meant an upload of the audio file only and not an actual dvd/blu ray custom.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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 (Edited)

When the audio is complete it will see an upload.  I don't have an exact time frame at this moment as we're still not finished with our current project but I will keep you all appraised of the details as I get them.

All of these projects going on have connections to others so we want to make sure they are the best they can be for everyone.

 

:)