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Star Wars 1977 70mm sound mix recreation [stereo and 5.1 versions now available] — Page 25

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Other than blatant changes to dialogue and other nonsense, how "wrong" were the 97 mixes for Empire and Jedi?  

"Alright twinkle-toes, what's your exit strategy?"

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They're mostly pretty good.  The music actually seems more prominent than in the original sometimes, which is cool, and the fidelity may actually be a bit better than the '93 versions as well, unlike the first movie.  Sometimes they got too carried away with the fact that they were 'improving' things for the 5.1 format and made the surround effects and bass overbearingly loud when they didn't need to be, and of course there are various new sounds that were added in a distracting and unnecessary manner.  There's one explosion sound during the snow battle which is clearly heard in the original but in the SE is totally missing.

None of these issues are insurmountable, though, and with some careful editing it may be possible to transform them into excellent and usable mixes.  I've given some vague thought to trying to conform the '97 mixes to the original edits, taking out the annoying changes but keeping the discrete channels.  This would not replace the upmixed '93 tracks, but rather present an interesting alternative: what the SE audio 'should have been', if you like.  But if I do attempt such a thing it would not be for a long while yet.

Both the DVD and Bluray versions of ESB and RotJ still use the '97 mixes as their main source, only splicing in individual new changes for each release.  They haven't been remixed from scratch the way the first movie was.

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hairy_hen said:

I think I'll have another shot at integrating the missing snowspeeder crash sound into the '93 mix to see if I can get it to work more seamlessly.  As yet I'm undecided as to whether the original stereo mix or the '97 SE would be a better source for this (it sounds somewhat different in each).

Hi Hairy_hen, Wouldn't the original stereo mix crash be closer to what was heard in theaters in 1980? That's what I would prefer, personally. Can you elaborate on the differences? 

Keep up the great work! :)

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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The problem is that the theatrical stereo mixes have narrower stereo imaging than the '93 versions, presumably to reduce crosstalk when the tracks were upmixed during playback (upmixing back then was more primitive than it is now, so this was a bigger concern at the time).  When I made my first attempt at recreating the SW 70mm track, I replaced the '93 added sounds with the '77 stereo mix, but this was not ideal because the shift in the soundstage at the edit points was noticeable.  The second version used the '85 mix instead for these sections, which has the full panning width, so this is no longer an issue.  It is more likely that I'd be able to achieve a fully seamless result for the snowspeeder crash by using the '97 version than with the '80 as I did before.  But the crash sound itself seems to be mixed somewhat differently, in level and duration, in these two mixes, so I'll have to try it both ways and see which works out the best.

In the '80 stereo mix the crash sound is longer and louder, so it sounds very cool, though from listening to the 70mm recording, it seems like it may have been shorter and less prominent like in the SE (though it's impossible to say for sure, since the recording is very rough and fuzzy).

Either way, the LFE is getting a bit of an overhaul, coming from the Bluray this time rather than the DVD, but I think it'll still mostly sound the same as before.

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hairy_hen said:

In the '80 stereo mix the crash sound is longer and louder, so it sounds very cool, though from listening to the 70mm recording, it seems like it may have been shorter and less prominent like in the SE (though it's impossible to say for sure, since the recording is very rough and fuzzy).

Thanks for the reply Hairy_hen! Do you think the narrowing of the sound field is brief enough that it's not too noticeable? Because based on your description, I think the "louder and longer" crash sound might better fit the peril of the scene. 

Also, this is probably a really dumb question, but is it possible to create a hybrid of the two versions? 

Best wishes! :)

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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I think I am leaning towards using the stereo mix again, because I do like the way it sounds more in that version.  It may work well enough not to be an issue if I edit in and out in the right spots and take care to match the EQ and level more precisely.

Despite having switched to the '85 mix for the replacement sections in the first movie, I did still keep one part from the '77 stereo (the explosion that convinces C-3PO to get in the escape pod) since it sounded more robust than the '85 did for that particular effect.  Even though the stereo image does change, it's quite difficult to hear the transition in that spot since I was very determined to find a way to make it work, and I did.  ;)  So I'm hopeful that this will be equally successful.  I won't know for a couple days since I'm currently mixing some music for a friend, but I'll get back to it as soon as that's done.

This would, of course, be easier if they had made '85 mixes of ESB and RotJ with full stereo width as they did for the first movie (or if the '93 version weren't inexplicably missing the crash sound to begin with).  Oh well.  I'm not sure if a hybrid version would be possible, but I'll look into it.  Perhaps if I extracted the sound from the center channel of the SE and blended it into the '93 directly?  Hmm . . .

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hairy_hen said:

Both the DVD and Bluray versions of ESB and RotJ still use the '97 mixes as their main source, only splicing in individual new changes for each release.  They haven't been remixed from scratch the way the first movie was.

I didn't know that and I find it interesting. I am really surprised that Lucasfilm didn't simply use the 1997 5.1 Mix as the main source during the creation of the problematic 6.1 Mix that was featured on the 2004 DVD of the first film. Even the 6.1 Mix on the 2011 Blu-Ray still has a few tiny flaws even though it corrected most of the problems the 2004 Mix had. I've noticed that there are still two missing sound effects.

I've compared the 1993 2.0 Surround Mixes on the 2006 DVDs of the Original Versions to the 6.1 Mixes on the 2011 Blu-Rays of the Special Editions and there are things I like better about the 1993 Mixes.

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When watching the original pan and scan version of Star Wars, I noticed a sound effect missing from the cantina scene. If you look at the beginning from where the first alien pops his head up, the next scene pans to a group of aliens sitting at a table. I overhear what sounds like "you're different." It is most audible in Puggo' s 8mm preservation. In the subsequent pan and scan preservations, such as Dark Jedi's full screen, it sounds more alien. I don't recall hearing this line in any other release. Can anyone confirm what I think I heard?

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It appears that all flac links in this thread are gone. Would anyone please be willing to upload any of the various flac lossless audios that have been provided throughout this thread? That would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. I'm trying my best to replicate what I heard in the theater in 1977 when Star Wars changed my life. After Darth Meddler killed the original movie with his tamperings starting with the so-called "special editions", the magic really became diminished. Thanks for any help. Finding the mono was wonderful. I think the 70mm may finish doing the trick, plus any original sounding audios for the other two.

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kwork said:

It appears that all flac links in this thread are gone. Would anyone please be willing to upload any of the various flac lossless audios that have been provided throughout this thread? That would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. 

Have you looked into Harmy's Despecialized Edition 2.5? While the audio isn't FLAC per se, the 70mm 5.1, 35mm Stereo, and 35mm Mono tracks are all lossless DTS-HD Master Audio. They sound great and should give you the experience you're looking for. Hairy_Hen outdid himself, as always. Hope this helps! 

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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ScruffyNerfHerder said:



kwork said:

It appears that all flac links in this thread are gone. Would anyone please be willing to upload any of the various flac lossless audios that have been provided throughout this thread? That would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. 


Have you looked into Harmy's Despecialized Edition 2.5? While the audio isn't FLAC per se, the 70mm 5.1, 35mm Stereo, and 35mm Mono tracks are all lossless DTS-HD Master Audio. They sound great and should give you the experience you're looking for. Hairy_Hen outdid himself, as always. Hope this helps! 

Thanks for that. I found it yesterday and grabbed it between last night and this morning. Now I'm trying to find a program that's screenreader friendly that will extract the various audios.

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kwork said: 


Thanks for that. I found it yesterday and grabbed it between last night and this morning. Now I'm trying to find a program that's screenreader friendly that will extract the various audios.

No problem. If you can't find any screenreader compatible demuxers, be sure to holler. I'll try to help you. :) 

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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Could you re-upload the original 5.1 tracks to another website?

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brickbrainiac said:

Could you re-upload the original 5.1 tracks to another website?

First post here as a member and you want something.  

:(

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And a necro at that.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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I'm currently on vacation and do not have the files with me, but I can upload my tracks again, since the previous links have probably expired.  I actually meant to do that a while back, but was busy with many things and forgot to do so.  For now, though, the easiest way to hear them is to obtain the newest releases from Harmy or dark_jedi and watch/listen to the films that way.

It is my eventual intention to make one more version of the 70mm soundtrack, since there is a possibility of gaining access to a better reference for what it should sound like.  I can't say any more about it currently, but I'm very much hoping that I'll be able to do it.

The idea of making a new version is not so much to better the sound quality, since any improvement over the existing version would be incremental at best, but to fulfill my goal of getting it as close to the sound of the actual original mix as I possibly can.  There is definitely still room for me to make it more authentic in this regard.

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@hairy_hen: Any upgrades are always appreciates, as is your work with these audios in general. Lik you said, I'm after the most authentic audio experience, no matter if the fidelity is the highest it could be. I'll never forget my 1977 theater experience that started a lifetime love for me of the original trilogy. Thank you.

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I recently bought the Sony Gold wireless headset for a couple reasons: one, to keep my wife happy if I'm ever playing video games on the TV and two, get the closest thing to surround sound I'll ever have in the tiny apartment where I currently live. My first test for the virtual surround sound was your 70mm recreation. It's always fascinated me and I've always wanted to experience it, but I don't know anyone with the proper equipment. 

While they're not the best way to hear a surround mix, I was nonetheless floored by what I heard. The bass especially was eye-opening. When the Falcon leaves the Death Star and the TIE fighters are approaching, there's a CRRR..CRRR that I'd never heard before and it was particularly tense!

So sorry to be late to the party, but I wanted to say how great your work is. 

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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hairy_hen said:

For now, though, the easiest way to hear them is to obtain the newest releases from Harmy or dark_jedi and watch/listen to the films that way.

 Thanks for all the work that went into these. It's great that countless people have enjoyed your tracks via Harmy's release.

I wasn't sure whether my question would be better suited for here (or the mono thread) or Harmy's thread. It will probably depend on the answer and where my problem actually is.

I'm trying to mux the tracks from Harmy's 2.5 into another project. I retrieve the DTS files via demuxing with tsmuxer. They can happily be re-muxed using that program. But if I try to use them in anything else (Encore CS6, VLC, etc), they all seem to play at the wrong rate. They clock in at ~3 hours, rather than 2:01. The AC3 tracks from Harmy's release are fine, but the 70mm and 35mm DTS have this issue.

Is there a way that I can fix the header to resolve this? Would obtaining the original files from a helpful person in this thread do the trick (as in something bad happened when the m2ts was muxed)? Do I need to extract wavs from these files and rebuild/re-encode the DTS? As you might have guessed, I have no experience with audio files. 

edit: Actually, I assume that the problem must be how it was muxed, or my general understanding of how to use a DTS file, as tracks from both Belbecus and hairy_hen are behaving this way for me.

Finally, unrelatedly, does anyone still have the DTS for catbus's fix of RoTJ? I see the ac3 is on myspleen. 

Thanks.

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towne32 said:

hairy_hen said:

For now, though, the easiest way to hear them is to obtain the newest releases from Harmy or dark_jedi and watch/listen to the films that way.

 Thanks for all the work that went into these. It's great that countless people have enjoyed your tracks via Harmy's release.

I wasn't sure whether my question would be better suited for here (or the mono thread) or Harmy's thread. It will probably depend on the answer and where my problem actually is.

I'm trying to mux the tracks from Harmy's 2.5 into another project. I retrieve the DTS files via demuxing with tsmuxer. They can happily be re-muxed using that program. But if I try to use them in anything else (Encore CS6, VLC, etc), they all seem to play at the wrong rate. They clock in at ~3 hours, rather than 2:01. The AC3 tracks from Harmy's release are fine, but the 70mm and 35mm DTS have this issue.

Is there a way that I can fix the header to resolve this? Would obtaining the original files from a helpful person in this thread do the trick (as in something bad happened when the m2ts was muxed)? Do I need to extract wavs from these files and rebuild/re-encode the DTS? As you might have guessed, I have no experience with audio files. 

edit: Actually, I assume that the problem must be how it was muxed, or my general understanding of how to use a DTS file, as tracks from both Belbecus and hairy_hen are behaving this way for me.

Finally, unrelatedly, does anyone still have the DTS for catbus's fix of RoTJ? I see the ac3 is on myspleen. 

Thanks.

I've encountered this issue, too, and another member here named STENDEC offered this workaround: "export your project as a disk folder in Encore using temporary audio tracks in place of the DTS files (I used WAVs). Then you bring that folder into multiAVCHD and strip out the temporary audio tracks in the playlist. Finally, put the DTS files into the playlist in the same order as the temp tracks and then export. The resulting folder will play exactly the same as the Encore original, except now you have fully functioning DTS audio!"

I've not yet had a chance to try this out, but have no reason to doubt it will work. Good luck! :)

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applesandrice said:

towne32 said:

hairy_hen said:

For now, though, the easiest way to hear them is to obtain the newest releases from Harmy or dark_jedi and watch/listen to the films that way.

 Thanks for all the work that went into these. It's great that countless people have enjoyed your tracks via Harmy's release.

I wasn't sure whether my question would be better suited for here (or the mono thread) or Harmy's thread. It will probably depend on the answer and where my problem actually is.

I'm trying to mux the tracks from Harmy's 2.5 into another project. I retrieve the DTS files via demuxing with tsmuxer. They can happily be re-muxed using that program. But if I try to use them in anything else (Encore CS6, VLC, etc), they all seem to play at the wrong rate. They clock in at ~3 hours, rather than 2:01. The AC3 tracks from Harmy's release are fine, but the 70mm and 35mm DTS have this issue.

Is there a way that I can fix the header to resolve this? Would obtaining the original files from a helpful person in this thread do the trick (as in something bad happened when the m2ts was muxed)? Do I need to extract wavs from these files and rebuild/re-encode the DTS? As you might have guessed, I have no experience with audio files. 

edit: Actually, I assume that the problem must be how it was muxed, or my general understanding of how to use a DTS file, as tracks from both Belbecus and hairy_hen are behaving this way for me.

Finally, unrelatedly, does anyone still have the DTS for catbus's fix of RoTJ? I see the ac3 is on myspleen. 

Thanks.

I've encountered this issue, too, and another member here named STENDEC offered this workaround: "export your project as a disk folder in Encore using temporary audio tracks in place of the DTS files (I used WAVs). Then you bring that folder into multiAVCHD and strip out the temporary audio tracks in the playlist. Finally, put the DTS files into the playlist in the same order as the temp tracks and then export. The resulting folder will play exactly the same as the Encore original, except now you have fully functioning DTS audio!"

I've not yet had a chance to try this out, but have no reason to doubt it will work. Good luck! :)

 Thanks. I tried something very similar, including an ac3, but using tsmuxer to just edit the m2ts instead. Makes sense that the playlist would still be screwed up, but I figured I would run it through BD-RB afterwards which can often patch things up. BD-RB told me that the DTS files were indeed not BR legal and refused to process anything.

I'll try it this way! And I'll try to find that older discussion, didn't come up in my attempted search. Was there any conclusion as to the source of the error? Does the problem exist with the original files once linked in this thread?

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It worked perfectly! Thanks again for passing this on.

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towne32 said:

It worked perfectly! Thanks again for passing this on.

 Excellent! Glad to hear it worked.