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Star Wars 1977 70mm sound mix recreation [stereo and 5.1 versions now available] — Page 11

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Thanks, hairy_hen!

I'm sure these mixes will end up getting used in many projects.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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It could be worth mentioning that those who plan to make a PAL to NTSC conversion of the PAL JEDI-GOUT-disc due to its slightly better picture quality (g-force script) will end up with hairy_hen's or belbucus audio tracks going out of sync, see here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/457548/#TopicPost457548

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Ah crud, I didn't know about that.  I suppose it doesn't affect me directly because I'm in NTSC-land, but it could mean that these might not synch 100% with adywan's and Harmy's theatrical versions, since I assume those were made with reference to the GOUT in PAL.  Hmm . . .

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When I checked your other version it was just fine, I don't think there will be a problem.

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 (Edited)

It's one or two frames, that doesn't make it out of sync. And there are two aditional frame, one is missing so in the end, you end up with one frame difference. When I was editing, I'm sure a few frames were lost in the process anyway, I don't think it's a big deal. Could you actually tell when the audio is one frame out of sync? Because I definitely couldn't.

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 (Edited)

Harmy said: Could you actually tell when the audio is one frame out of sync? Because I definitely couldn’t.

No; usually a frame or two doesn’t make any difference.  You should be fine.

EDIT: I was wrong about this. Quality control is important.

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Y'all sound like LFL with your relaxed QC standards.

The color-blind might tell you: Don't bother with the color timing.
Tone-deaf ones could say PAL speedup isn't an issue, yet others are bothered by it.
The ones who can detect ~60ms time-shift will call your support hotline to complain, and then what will you tell them?
"deliberate creative decision"

Let's put an end to this "perpetuation of amateurism" ha ha ha

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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Errors of +20 ms (audio advanced) and -40 ms (audio delayed) are "detectable", and errors of +40 and -160 ms are "subjectively annoying"*.

A single video frame is displayed for 40ms (PAL) or 41.7ms (NTSC). A single-frame audio delay may be acceptable, but a single frame in advance is clearly not (this is because this is an unnatural condition - we are accustomed to a minor audio lag in everyday life due to the differences between the speeds of light and sound).

* Ref: International Telecommunication Union Document 11A/47-E, 13 October 1993

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 (Edited)

 

I just uploaded this to YOUTUBE:

 

SOUND EXPERIMENT

You will see one clip from House 3x16

three times, one of which it will be in correct sync,

one will have a 4 frames audio delay 

and in one the sound will be 1 frame ahead.

Can you tell which is which upon the first viewing?

Please comment HERE!!!

 

 

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Interesting, but this discussion is drifting off topic. Can you repost in the Technical Discussions forum please?

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Done

BTW. hairy_hen, an MKV version of the ROTJ Reconstruction is out now containing your new "purist" sound mix, so you can check it out if you like.

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Wow! I just found this. Being totally blind, I'm always on the lookout for an improved audio version of the audio track. This sounds amazing. Thank you very very much for the hard work on this.

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hairy_hen said:

Here are the new Empire and Jedi 5.1 mixes.  Aside from reverting the music back to how it was originally presented, everything sounds exactly the same as the previous versions.

Empire: http://www.nakido.com/A79D1681FBAE5459337580B6C92AEDB89963D72B

Jedi: http://www.nakido.com/0F196D0DEA5E5A752ECE1E15DE3ACE7E31BEC143

 

Hope you all like them!

 

Oh, and here's the Star Wars 70mm LFE channel as requested.  http://www.sendspace.com/file/q5dsqm

Are these new purist mixes available anywhere else? I cannot get this darn nakido site to work. Thanks!

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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That's where Satanika uploaded them, but they worked just fine for me, so that's weird.  I can put them up elsewhere, it's no problem; just haven't had a chance to do it yet.

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I'm going away for a few days, so I got these uploaded before I leave.  These are the same 'purist' ESB and RotJ 5.1 that were previously uploaded to nakido, but if you haven't yet obtained them or couldn't use the previous links then this is for you.  448 kbps ac3 contained in 5-part rar files.

Empire part 1: http://www.sendspace.com/file/oloqf8

Empire part 2: http://www.sendspace.com/file/tqj8ia

Empire part 3: http://www.sendspace.com/file/0wh9tn

Empire part 4: http://www.sendspace.com/file/oo6zoz

Empire part 5: http://www.sendspace.com/file/qmgvwt

Jedi part 1: http://www.sendspace.com/file/dipbts

Jedi part 2: http://www.sendspace.com/file/h8uiir

Jedi part 3: http://www.sendspace.com/file/dkq29c

Jedi part 4: http://www.sendspace.com/file/3j0zvn

Jedi part 5: http://www.sendspace.com/file/potalz

 

The music-edited versions are linked to in the first post of the thread along with (naturally) the SW 70mm.  All the links are still valid at this point; if any of them expire don't hesitate to ask for a re-upload.

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Thanks, hh! I'm downloading now.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Moth3r said:

hairy_hen said:

So adywan's ESB recreation is completely gout-synched?  Awesome.  I haven't had a chance to see his version yet (sacrilege, I know!), but I'll have to do that soon.  If this mix will fit to it that would make it even better for me.

I remember reading that his version is GOUT-synched -  although it may require a different initial delay, this shouldn't present a problem.

I'm not sure if anyone has tried this yet, but I just synched hairy_hen's ESB 5.1 "Purist" mix to Adywan's ESB reconstruction with no problems (thanks to Erikstormtrooper and Chewtobacca for their help).

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Did you watch the whole thing to check to sync? I thought someone said it would drift at various points throughout the movie.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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A few weeks ago I decoded adywan's ESB 5.1 into individual AIFF files and checked it against the '93 mix from Belbucus.  (The timing of my mixes is the same as the '93.)  The synch definitely varies throughout the movie; I'm guessing the frame count of the video isn't 100% identical to the GOUT, though it's close.  The beginning and end of the movie were both in the vicinity of 8,000 samples (approximately 4 frames) late compared to the Belbucus track, while in the middle it was sometimes off by only half a frame, and other times around 2 or 3 frames.  Since it was always later, an initial delay on my mix would definitely be required--I would say somewhere around 170 milliseconds so that the largest discrepancies would be cancelled out, and the smaller variations in the middle will become late rather than sounding in advance of the video (which would be perceived as unnatural).

It's not a perfect solution, but it may be acceptable depending how sensitive you are to synch issues, and definitely better than using no delay value at all.  I may try this myself since I'm rather fond of what my version sounds like, and I was blown away by the picture quality adywan managed to achieve, though truth be told his mix sounds very good also--the only issues I have with it are some choices Lucasfilm made when mixing the SE.  For optimum results with his 5.1, I would recommend going into your receiver settings and reducing the output volume of the rear speakers by 3 decibels, since the SE's by default seem to have the surround channels at too high a level.  (Just don't forget to set them back to normal afterwards!)

Actually, what I've been considering would be to combine adywan's theatrical ESB video with my music-edited mix, since the picture is SE-based and not 100% authentic, while using the 'purist' version for dark_jedi's v3 GOUT, since it is from a transfer of the actual original movie.  I would then do the same with RotJ . . . which reminds me that I really need to obtain Harmy's theatrical version of that as well.  ;)

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I didn't watch it all the way through but watched at least a minute at each chapter stop. It seemed fine to me, although I definitely have untrained eyes and ears, so I'm sure hairy_hen's assessment is much more accurate than mine :)

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An in-theatre recording of the 70mm mix for The Empire Strikes Back has just surfaced at last: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/ESB-70mm-Soundtrack-1980-in-theatre-recording/topic/12501/

 

Very interesting listening!  As I'd long thought, it is much closer to the 35mm and 1993 mixes than previous speculation had indicated.  None of that extra SE dialogue, just a few small differences in sound effects, and the music the same except for the last scene, which also has different ADR for Lando in addition to being edited differently.  Recreating that part would be rather tough, as well as pointless without doing the video to match (obviously it would not synch to the GOUT).  But since the rest of it is so close, I can confidently state that my most recent 5.1 mix sounds very much like the 70mm version for the vast majority of the movie, which I'm rather pleased about.

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That's good to know hairy_hen. I have already synced your recent ESB 5.1 mix to ady's theatrical version and it works wonderfully.:-)

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Thanks h_h for that info, I have to admit when I first saw this had a new post by you, I thought you did yet another version and I was going to have to wait again LOL, truth be told, at this point I probably wouldn't have waited anyways, the V3 DVD's are done.

This is cool thought that you think it is pretty darn close to the Theatrical though, you purist version, did you get a chance to listen to the audio on the Jedi theater bootleg VideoCollector did? be nice to see if that is pretty close also.

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I don't think the Jedi bootleg is a 70mm recording, is it?  And the 35mm mix is already on the V3.

a trolling bantha